hankchifan Posted April 21, 2023 Share Posted April 21, 2023 12 hours ago, Tnetennba said: A lakefront baseball stadium? And people think attendance is bad now… How windy and cold would that be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted April 21, 2023 Share Posted April 21, 2023 5 minutes ago, hankchifan said: How windy and cold would that be? See old Memorial Stadium in CLE, the "mistake by the lake." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted April 21, 2023 Share Posted April 21, 2023 (edited) 7 hours ago, Tnetennba said: Rebuilding in 2016 was the right move, but letting the same FO do it then was as big of a mistake as it would be allowing them to do it again now. The 2016 White Sox won 78 games. The next season was the tank. I contend had we not tanked we could have taken the field in 2017 with Abreu, Anderson and Frazier in the infield. We could have found a 2Bman somewhere or played Leury there. Outifield of Avi, Melky and Eaton. Omar at catcher. Davidson or somebody at DH. Then as starters: Sale, Quintana, Rodon and coulda picked up somebody; Nate Jones and Robertson in the pen. I contend it coulda been business as usual for the Sox, try to sign some free agents to go with our core and win the ol' fashioned way. In retrospect, tanking was evil and for those of you who believe in hexes, the baseball gods have penalized us. We haven't done squat since the tank. As long as the Sox woulda been willing to sign some free agents, the tank wasn't necessary. Especially in hindsight. Only Cease appears to be great. Edited April 21, 2023 by greg775 4 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
"The Kids Can Play" Posted April 21, 2023 Share Posted April 21, 2023 19 hours ago, baseballgalaly said: I don't see any way out other than rebuilding again because Robert/Moncada only became solid players and not stars, Giolito/Lynn/Anderson peaked early and aren't the same and Cease peaked when Giolito/Lynn/Anderson already fell off. Also Eloy was injured and has otherwise disappointed because he can't hit the ball in the air. Vaughn either is still figuring it out or it might be too late for him. Kopech's secondary stuff might not be good enough to start. Robert is a solid piece and Vaughn might be, but they really don't have anyone long-term besides them and we all know Cease is getting paid by someone other than the Sox. There's really no reason to keep Vaughn and Robert around to build around. Nobody is arguing that Hahn et al should get to do it, but they’re losing way too many players to FA to realistically compete anymore. This year was pretty much their last chance and they look to be falling flat on their faces. I think many of us agree a rebuild is needed. The debate is who is in charge of it? Does Han get another shot after the first debacle? Having said that, let's assume for argument sake, Hahn gets the blessing to handle another complete rebuild. Which current players on the roster do you keep and which ones do you trade? I am curious and being serious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShoeLessRob Posted April 21, 2023 Share Posted April 21, 2023 If they start another “rebuild” with Jerry and Co. still at the helm, I’m out. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulfly Posted April 21, 2023 Share Posted April 21, 2023 6 minutes ago, "The Kids Can Play" said: I think many of us agree a rebuild is needed. The debate is who is in charge of it? Does Han get another shot after the first debacle? Having said that, let's assume for argument sake, Hahn gets the blessing to handle another complete rebuild. Which current players on the roster do you keep and which ones do you trade? I am curious and being serious. Lol. The guy couldn't put together a team so he had to rebuild. Then couldn't put together a team after said rebuild. Hahn goes first, then you figure the rest out. But if he gets a second chance to do a rebuild, might as well not pay attention to the team for the next eight years or so. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted April 21, 2023 Share Posted April 21, 2023 Even trading Robert Cease and TA7 might get you the equivalent (together) of one of the Big 3 trades of 2016-17. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloydBannister1983 Posted April 21, 2023 Share Posted April 21, 2023 17 hours ago, greg775 said: The 2016 White Sox won 78 games. The next season was the tank. I contend had we not tanked we could have taken the field in 2017 with Abreu, Anderson and Frazier in the infield. We could have found a 2Bman somewhere or played Leury there. Outifield of Avi, Melky and Eaton. Omar at catcher. Davidson or somebody at DH. Then as starters: Sale, Quintana, Rodon and coulda picked up somebody; Nate Jones and Robertson in the pen. I contend it coulda been business as usual for the Sox, try to sign some free agents to go with our core and win the ol' fashioned way. In retrospect, tanking was evil and for those of you who believe in hexes, the baseball gods have penalized us. We haven't done squat since the tank. As long as the Sox woulda been willing to sign some free agents, the tank wasn't necessary. Especially in hindsight. Only Cease appears to be great. I agree the tank was a mistake as long as the kids that drove the car into the ditch were the ones driving the tow truck. It was doomed to failure the minute they kept these people in their jobs. I disagree if you think they could have found a second baseman. They have had two years and still haven’t found a replacement level second baseman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulie4Pres Posted April 22, 2023 Share Posted April 22, 2023 On 4/19/2023 at 9:56 PM, South Side Hit Men said: Jerry should demand a new stadium and real estate holdings (perhaps throw in a Star Wars museum on the Lake) from the new mayor ($4B-$5B plus) that he completely owns with zero or minimal rent or lease payments like his current deal. Get a complete real estate tax exemption as well. They can sell it to the media and masses announcing an historical agreement with Mellody Hobson to purchase the team when he passes, perhaps rebuild a bunch of park baseball diamonds around the city (with Sox Split the Pot Raffle Ticket money) to sweeten the deal. Jerry spends a few pennies on the dollar max ($150M-$200M) to get this through legislatively. Dump every player over $3M, tank for the next five seasons and give Hahn another chance at a rebuild. Maximize profits, without significantly impacting attendance, 1.4M the likely floor, not much lower than the average under 11 years of Rick Hahn. Give Hahn a seven year contract for Kenny's job and let him promote one of his Michigan cronies. Best part of the plan is I can see Jerry living another 25-30 plus years and attempting this scam one more time mid century. Perhaps Mama McCaskey will be gone by then. This is satire, right? Or are you completely fucking delusional? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted April 22, 2023 Share Posted April 22, 2023 2 hours ago, FloydBannister1983 said: I disagree if you think they could have found a second baseman. They have had two years and still haven’t found a replacement level second baseman. Fair enuf. I think you and I coulda found a second baseman if they woulda let us. Easiest spot in the lineup to fill in MLB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted April 22, 2023 Share Posted April 22, 2023 5 minutes ago, greg775 said: Fair enuf. I think you and I coulda found a second baseman if they woulda let us. Easiest spot in the lineup to fill in MLB. We have been saying that since Durham and Iguchi lol... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwill Posted April 22, 2023 Share Posted April 22, 2023 4 hours ago, caulfield12 said: Even trading Robert Cease and TA7 might get you the equivalent (together) of one of the Big 3 trades of 2016-17. Ya crazy.. Dylan Cease with three years of control would 100% net you a massive trade package. The runner up to Cy Young winner in his prime. You are getting at least 1 top 20, 1-top 50, 2- Top 15 Prospects in the Organization. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted April 22, 2023 Share Posted April 22, 2023 34 minutes ago, kwill said: Ya crazy.. Dylan Cease with three years of control would 100% net you a massive trade package. The runner up to Cy Young winner in his prime. You are getting at least 1 top 20, 1-top 50, 2- Top 15 Prospects in the Organization. Maybe from Preller... if he hadn't already dealt them all for Soto and Hader lol. We could use a bonafide young stud catching prospect for once. Z.Collins lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloydBannister1983 Posted April 22, 2023 Share Posted April 22, 2023 40 minutes ago, kwill said: Ya crazy.. Dylan Cease with three years of control would 100% net you a massive trade package. The runner up to Cy Young winner in his prime. You are getting at least 1 top 20, 1-top 50, 2- Top 15 Prospects in the Organization. So Dylan Cease would bring back more than Chris Sale? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PitchatRisktoZisk Posted April 22, 2023 Share Posted April 22, 2023 None of this really matters. Every other franchise that tanks and rebuilds knows you can't trade for all the pieces necessary to win a WS. At some point you have to fill in a couple of spots with big time free agents to complete the team. JR will never allow a Harper/Machado/Soto level contract so the "rebuild" is DOA before it ever starts. We're screwed. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted April 22, 2023 Share Posted April 22, 2023 (edited) 3 minutes ago, PitchatRisktoZisk said: None of this really matters. Every other franchise that tanks and rebuilds knows you can't trade for all the pieces necessary to win a WS. At some point you have to fill in a couple of spots with big time free agents to complete the team. JR will never allow a Harper/Machado/Soto level contract so the "rebuild" is DOA before it ever starts. We're screwed. Unless we kidnap Rays' front office...Brewers/Braves pitching development staffs Edited April 22, 2023 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomas Posted April 22, 2023 Share Posted April 22, 2023 This bullpen is horrible. Hahn needs to go bye-bye. He is a failure 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Hit Men Posted April 22, 2023 Share Posted April 22, 2023 9 hours ago, PitchatRisktoZisk said: None of this really matters. Every other franchise that tanks and rebuilds knows you can't trade for all the pieces necessary to win a WS. At some point you have to fill in a couple of spots with big time free agents to complete the team. JR will never allow a Harper/Machado/Soto level contract so the "rebuild" is DOA before it ever starts. We're screwed. Detroit, Cleveland and Kansas City each made the World Series since 2012. Detroit is the only team with an above average payroll among the three. Cleveland was within a Game 7 extra innings of winning like KC. Cleveland and KC didn’t have high priced free agents. It’s possible to be competitive with a solid development staff, front office and coaching / training staff. Sadly, Jerry is only interested in employing cronies, not competent baseball professionals, to manage and operate this ball club. We still have a city others would want to live in during the Summer. A competent owner can build a winning franchise here. Just need the right person to take over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted April 22, 2023 Share Posted April 22, 2023 25 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said: Detroit, Cleveland and Kansas City each made the World Series since 2012. Detroit is the only team with an above average payroll among the three. Cleveland was within a Game 7 extra innings of winning like KC. Cleveland and KC didn’t have high priced free agents. It’s possible to be competitive with a solid development staff, front office and coaching / training staff. Sadly, Jerry is only interested in employing cronies, not competent baseball professionals, to manage and operate this ball club. We still have a city others would want to live in during the Summer. A competent owner can build a winning franchise here. Just need the right person to take over. Big Game James Shields was arguably the Royals' biggest FA signing. Cueto trade at midseason. Zobrist. Edinson Volquez... but 85% homegrown or trades like Lorenzo Cain and Escobar from MIL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GradMc Posted April 23, 2023 Share Posted April 23, 2023 On 4/20/2023 at 8:08 AM, Rusty_Kuntz said: Untradeable: Moncada, Benintendi, Hendriks, probably Clevinger Easy calls to trade this July: Lynn, Grandal, Graveman, Kelly Guys they need to get something for before they go: Giolito, Anderson Guys who are redundant on a decent team: Sheets, one of Burger/Vaughn/Eloy. My sense would be trade Eloy. Guys who could be traded: Cease, Kopech, Bummer Guys to keep: Robert, Crochet, probably Kopech and or Cease, Colas, and all the other youngsters. Acquire all prospects, tank this year and 2024. You've described the Reinsdorf Tenure to the letter: A perpetual rebuild. They had the op of a lifetime to break the cycle by signing both Harper and Machado. Subsequently, CWS could have become a preferred destination by elite difference makers. Reinsdorf Refused. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted April 23, 2023 Share Posted April 23, 2023 6 minutes ago, GradMc said: You've described the Reinsdorf Tenure to the letter: A perpetual rebuild. They had the op of a lifetime to break the cycle by signing both Harper and Machado. Subsequently, CWS could have become a preferred destination by elite difference makers. Reinsdorf Refused. Well on the plus side they didn't sign Javy Baez...lol. Savings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted April 23, 2023 Share Posted April 23, 2023 7 minutes ago, GradMc said: You've described the Reinsdorf Tenure to the letter: A perpetual rebuild. They had the op of a lifetime to break the cycle by signing both Harper and Machado. Subsequently, CWS could have become a preferred destination by elite difference makers. Reinsdorf Refused. I think CWS or someone was arguing both of those guys AND Wheeler coming in together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie Posted April 23, 2023 Share Posted April 23, 2023 I don't think so... We are in hell and stuck trying to win with this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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