Will the Sox do the right thing when Eloy comes back and move Yoan to 2B?

[hogan873]

The drop in defensive skill at 3B from Moncada to Burger (or Alberto for that matter) is dramatic.  Moncada is damn near elite at 3B.  Plus, we might be seeing "odd year" Moncada offensively here in 2023.  You really don't want to do anything that could change his mental approach to the game.

Not that the Sox are a particularly good team, but good teams don't significantly sacrifice defense at one of the toughest positions.

Burger deserves to continue playing DH, especially with Eloy on the shelf (again).  When Eloy comes back, there may have to be some tough decisions.  If Burger is still tearing the cover off the ball, you need to find a way to play him most games.  But you don't do that by moving Moncada to 2B.

[Milkman delivers]

I know he’s not lighting up the world, but it seems like everyone dislikes Sheets. For being used pretty sporadically and in at different positions, he still seems to me like one of our better hitters.

[Bob Sacamano]

42 minutes ago, Milkman delivers said:

I know he’s not lighting up the world, but it seems like everyone dislikes Sheets. For being used pretty sporadically and in at different positions, he still seems to me like one of our better hitters.

When everyone is healthy (if this will ever happen), I think there's a spot for Sheets on the bench. Give him some starts against some tough righties. I would go with a bench of: Zavala, Romy, Sheets, Marisnick. If Burger starts struggling again, then you can platoon Sheets and Burger (with Eloy DHing against righties and in RF against lefties).

[soxfaninfl]

This is just such a wait and see for me. Eloy may not be back for almost a month, still, and I am really interested in how Burger handles the 4-hole today. 
 

All I can say is if one of Burger/Eloy/Sheets could play effective defense, this would be a nice problem to have.

[South Side Hit Men]

40 minutes ago, Milkman delivers said:

I know he’s not lighting up the world, but it seems like everyone dislikes Sheets. For being used pretty sporadically and in at different positions, he still seems to me like one of our better hitters.

It’s not dislike but rather the fact he can’t play defense, and his bat isn’t good enough to supplant Vaughn, Eloy or Burger. He can wait in Charlotte until one of the three go down.

They need reserves with flexibility over multiple defensive positions. Sheets could be a platoon DH if there weren’t so many holes on the roster.

[GreenSox]

Burger is doing really well at DH; 

18 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

They need reserves with flexibility over multiple defensive positions. Sheets could be a platoon DH if there weren’t so many holes on the roster.

They don't have any reserves who can play multiple positions who are any good at it.
Having 2 pinch runners and 5th OFs as reserves, as is currently, is not ideal.
Sheets off the bench, if that's where he belongs,  is more valuable than a 2nd 5th OF.

 

 

[Bob Sacamano]

2 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

Burger is doing really well at DH; 

They don't have any reserves who can play multiple positions who are any good at it.
Having 2 pinch runners and 5th OFs as reserves, as is currently, is not ideal.
Sheets off the bench, if that's where he belongs,  is more valuable than a 2nd 5th OF.

 

 

I agree. They don't really need both Marisnick and Haseley.

[The Kids Can Play]

It's very simple! When Eloy comes back, Burger cannot be on the bench nor can he play part time. Either he plays DH and Eloy moves to the outfield, which I know could be a disaster. Or the better thing move Moncada to second. 

Everyone is posting how Moncada is the better offensive player over Burger and that is not true. Besides the fact Moncada does not have anything close to Burger's HR power, he is behind Jake in most other offensive metrics:

                     AVG   OBP    SLG     OPS      ISO   BABIP  wRC  wRAA    wOBA    wRC+  WAR
Burger         .278   .348    .747   1.095    .468   .400      20       9.3       .447      189       1.2
Moncada     .310   .344    .534     .879    .224   .363      10       2.9       .336      140       0.5

In the history of the game many players have made position changes. He won't be the first or the last. Plus we are not asking Moncada to learn a new position like Vaughn and Sheets had to do. My god, he played second base his entire life and even a short time for the Sox. He was traded here as a second baseman and not a third baseman. If he such an amazing athlete and player as so many claim here, then he can make the adjustments at 2nd. 

For now I agree Moncada is a better third baseman than Jake. However Jake has played well this year and not been bad there as in the past. He made a huge improvement on his game at 3rd. Even if Moncada is not as good at 2nd, he is at least better than Andrus and Alberto at 2nd. Moncada's offense is worth playing him at 2nd and it will easily outweigh and justify Moncada at 2nd versus any of the other White Sox slugs at 2nd. 

I seriously don't like Eloy playing outfield. That is an injury IL waiting to happen. 

Plus these moves won't be for that long as most have agreed in here, several players will be traded at the deadline and Moncada will probably be one of them.

 

[2Deep]

2 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Chapman already has the GG wrapped up... 

So does that mean we Move Yoan because he might not win the Gold glove?

Anyone who watches the White Sox cannot tell me they are not a better team defensively when Yoan is playing 3rd base.

Edited May 18, 2023 by 2Deep

[joejoesox]

@The Kids Can PlayVinnie Duber talked to Grifol about moving Moncada to 2B, and he sounds like that isn't even a thought. They're good with Sheets/Burger DH platoon. I can't fathom a top tier team who would turn their best/second best offensive player into a platoon role. But this is the white sox we are talking about. 

[Bob Sacamano]

Just now, joejoesox said:

@The Kids Can PlayVinnie Duber talked to Grifol about moving Moncada to 2B, and he sounds like that isn't even a thought. They're good with Sheets/Burger DH platoon. I can't fathom a top tier team who would turn their best/second best offensive player into a platoon role. But this is the white sox we are talking about. 

I would say Burger is the DH until he starts slumping. Then Sheets starts taking those RHP at bats away.

[GreenSox]

3 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said:

I seriously don't like Eloy playing outfield. That is an injury IL waiting to happen. 

Plus these moves won't be for that long as most have agreed in here, several players will be traded at the deadline and Moncada will probably be one of them.

 

To me, that's also concern with Burger at 3B; how long can he hold up there? 

A trade of Moncada will basically be a salary dump.  He's just too  overpaid for the rest of this season and next plus a $5 option for the next one.
Trading Burger, on the other hand.....  Plus, the Sox have to cull out these multiple DHs eventually.

[Quin]

1 minute ago, 2Deep said:

So does that mean we Move Yoan because he might not win the Gold glove?

Anyone who watches the White Sox cannot tell me they are a better team defensively when Yoan is playing 3rd base.

It's simple. Everyone that's not Luis Robert plays a new position.

Tim Anderson is catcher, that's our layup.

Benintendi? DH.

Yoan? First base.

Burger? Right.

Vaughn? Shortstop.

Sheets/Eloy? Second base.

Yasmani? Third base.

Hanser? Left field.

[Bob Sacamano]

Moncada already grimaces and looks achey enough. I couldn't imagine him playing a position where you need more range.

[caulfield12]

49 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

When everyone is healthy (if this will ever happen), I think there's a spot for Sheets on the bench. Give him some starts against some tough righties. I would go with a bench of: Zavala, Romy, Sheets, Marisnick. If Burger starts struggling again, then you can platoon Sheets and Burger (with Eloy DHing against righties and in RF against lefties).

What can Romy actually do?

[The Kids Can Play]

1 minute ago, Quin said:

It's simple. Everyone that's not Luis Robert plays a new position.

Tim Anderson is catcher, that's our layup.

Benintendi? DH.

Yoan? First base.

Burger? Right.

Vaughn? Shortstop.

Sheets/Eloy? Second base.

Yasmani? Third base.

Hanser? Left field.

Moncada will never win a glove glove. There are many 3rd basemen better than him in this league.

[South Side Fireworks Man]

This team did not pan out as they planned.  So at this point, I say just put all your sluggers in the lineup and let them bang away and have some fun.  

Vaughn 1B; Moncada 2B; Burger 3B; Anderson SS; Benintendi LF; Robert CF; Eloy/Sheets RF; Grandal/Zavala C; Sheets/Eloy DH.

Late innings you can move Moncada back over to 3B, insert Andrus at 2B and Hasely/Marisnik in RF for defensive substitutions if need be.

Maybe this team could be something like the '77 Southside Hit Men.

[Bob Sacamano]

1 minute ago, caulfield12 said:

What can Romy actually do?

Nothing but he's the only backup IF on the roster.

I guess I wasn't really counting Elvis under "when everyone is healthy" since he sucks anyway, but the obvious answer is Romy would go down when he is back.

[caulfield12]

8 minutes ago, 2Deep said:

So does that mean we Move Yoan because he might not win the Gold glove?

Anyone who watches the White Sox cannot tell me they are not a better team defensively when Yoan is playing 3rd base.

Did you watch Burger everyday at third the last couple of weeks before he was Injured?

The gap is closing.

Not to mention almost nobody believes Moncada is a part of the long term future of the organization at this point.

[The Kids Can Play]

5 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

To me, that's also concern with Burger at 3B; how long can he hold up there? 

A trade of Moncada will basically be a salary dump.  He's just too  overpaid for the rest of this season and next plus a $5 option for the next one.
Trading Burger, on the other hand.....  Plus, the Sox have to cull out these multiple DHs eventually.

Then trade Moncada because you can save 17 million. The fact is he is never healthy. Burger for third will only cost $720,000

[The Kids Can Play]

10 minutes ago, joejoesox said:

@The Kids Can PlayVinnie Duber talked to Grifol about moving Moncada to 2B, and he sounds like that isn't even a thought. They're good with Sheets/Burger DH platoon. I can't fathom a top tier team who would turn their best/second best offensive player into a platoon role. But this is the white sox we are talking about. 

You're absolutely right the top tier teams would not sit Burger or platoon him. Then again, we are not a top tier team and will never be one as long as the POS losers Reinsdorf, Kenny and Hahn are running this team.

Plus Pedro isn't a good coach. A winning and veteran manager like Francona would have no problem sitting Moncada down and telling him what the team needed. 

[caulfield12]

6 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said:

Then trade Moncada because you can save 17 million. The fact is he is never healthy. Burger for third will only cost $720,000

You’d be lucky to get even $8.5 million in savings…

[The Kids Can Play]

2 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

You’d be lucky to get even $8.5 million in savings…

Where are you coming up with that? Be more specific.

[caulfield12]

39 minutes ago, 2Deep said:

So does that mean we Move Yoan because he might not win the Gold glove?

Anyone who watches the White Sox cannot tell me they are not a better team defensively when Yoan is playing 3rd base.

Then we should have drafted Kwan to win the GG in LF and saved $75 million to protect the starting rotation as well as investing in 2B RF and a top defensive C instead of wasting even more money. 

Edited May 18, 2023 by caulfield12

[South Side Hit Men]

24 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

Burger is doing really well at DH; 

They don't have any reserves who can play multiple positions who are any good at it.
Having 2 pinch runners and 5th OFs as reserves, as is currently, is not ideal.
Sheets off the bench, if that's where he belongs,  is more valuable than a 2nd 5th OF.

Folks need to take into account the impact on the pitching staff when 4th and 5th outs are required due to players who really have no business wearing a glove.

• Catchers (2): YG & SZ
• Starting Infielders / DH (5): SS TA, 2B EA, DH JB, 3B YM, 1B AV
• Starting Outfielders (3): AB, EJ, LR Jr..
• Reserves (3): Infielder, Infielder/Outfielder, Outfielder.

You need to have someone who can at least adequately play defense to cover the three reserve roles. Sheets is not an option. He can't even field 1B.

Eloy and Burger are far superior to Sheets. At some point, they'll also consider bringing up Colas, who is an actual OFer. They should have traded Eloy for pitching over the past two off-seasons, but failed to do so, to maximize a trade return for their glut of DHs.