Lip Man 1 Posted May 17, 2023 Share Posted May 17, 2023 (edited) Garfein and McGuffy released their latest podcast tonight. Just watched it on You Tube. The theme was “what will the next Sox rebuild look like?” They went over a lot of ground in 45 minutes but both guys thought at least SOME sort of rebuild is coming. They differed on how big of a rebuild though. McGuffy (who towards the end of the podcast really let everyone know how frustrated and tired he was of the Sox failure in the rebuild) felt it has to be torn down to the studs again BUT it had to start with the selling of the team. He said the organization “half assed” (direct quote) the rebuild because they wouldn’t go out and get the superstar, the game changer, the guy who could make other talented players want to come to the Sox. He blamed JR for handcuffing his front office. Garfein wouldn’t go that far but he did say something interesting in that he commented that “We don’t know who’ll be doing the next rebuild. Will it be Rick, Kenny and Chris Getz or someone else?” (Does he know something?) He figured 80 million will be paired from the payroll after trades this July and then when the season ended so he thought especially in this division a smart retooling could put things on the right course again. He also said at his age, JR is not interested in another complete rebuild. He said the money will be there if the organization wants to spend it from the purging of this year's team/payroll. He also talked about how he wants a team that will reflect the fan base. A team that plays the game hard, runs everything out, plays defense and can do the little things. (Sounds like he just got through watching The Last Comiskey documentary!) Both guys talked about getting real leaders into the clubhouse moving forward, guys who have enough respect that they can tell the other players what they are doing wrong and hold them accountable. McGuffy said those guys don’t necessarily have nine figure contracts either. (A lot of what they were talking about was told to me by sources in my State of the Sox story that was published in November. That the clubhouse is fractured, guys doing their own thing, not a lot of chemistry, guys got their money so they just don’t care et al) They also talked about how bad the farm system is with three of the top prospects Montgomery, Schultz and Ramos haven't played at all this year. Both thought TA would be shopped either at the deadline or next off season. Garfein hoped the Dodgers and Braves would get into a bidding war for him. Garfein hoped that the Sox could get something for Eloy and said he was “perfectly fine” with Burger being the DH moving forward. He also said pretty strongly that Moncada will only be on the club through the 24 season. Both thought Giolito is gone come July…maybe Lynn, Kelly and Clevinger. Cease’s name was brought up as well since he could offer a decent return. Robert could also be traded according to McGuffy because he’s the only guy that would really bring back a big haul. Garfein wants to keep him and rebuild (retool) around him. Both opened the podcast by talking about how unbelievable it was that they had to be talking about this in the first place after so much was promised. Pretty frank assessment in my opinion. I recommend listening to it. (or watching it on You Tube) Edited May 17, 2023 by Lip Man 1 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirmin' for Yermin Posted May 17, 2023 Share Posted May 17, 2023 It was a great podcast. A must-watch 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kids Can Play Posted May 17, 2023 Share Posted May 17, 2023 9 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said: Garfein and McGuffy released their latest podcast tonight. Just watched it on You Tube. The theme was “what will the next Sox rebuild look like?” They went over a lot of ground in 45 minutes but both guys thought at least SOME sort of rebuild is coming. They differed on how big of a rebuild though. McGuffy (who towards the end of the podcast really let everyone know how frustrated and tired he was of the Sox failure in the rebuild) felt it has to be torn down to the studs again BUT it had to start with the selling of the team. He said the organization “half assed” (direct quote) the rebuild because they wouldn’t go out and get the superstar, the game changer, the guy who could make other talented players want to come to the Sox. He blamed JR for handcuffing his front office. Garfein wouldn’t go that far but he did say something interesting in that he commented that “We don’t know who’ll be doing the next rebuild. Will it be Rick, Kenny and Chris Getz or someone else?” (Does he know something?) He figured 80 million will be paired from the payroll after trades this July and then when the season ended so he thought especially in this division a smart retooling could put things on the right course again. He also said at his age, JR is not interested in another complete rebuild. He said the money will be there if the organization wants to spend it from the purging of this year's team/payroll. He also talked about how he wants a team that will reflect the fan base. A team that plays the game hard, runs everything out, plays defense and can do the little things. (Sounds like he just got through watching The Last Comiskey documentary!) Both guys talked about getting real leaders into the clubhouse moving forward, guys who have enough respect that they can tell the other players what they are doing wrong and hold them accountable. McGuffy said those guys don’t necessarily have nine figure contracts either. (A lot of what they were talking about was told to me by sources in my State of the Sox story that was published in November. That the clubhouse is fractured, guys doing their own thing, not a lot of chemistry, guys got their money so they just don’t care et al) They also talked about how bad the farm system is with three of the top prospects Montgomery, Schultz and Ramos haven't played at all this year. Both thought TA would be shopped either at the deadline or next off season. Garfein hoped the Dodgers and Braves would get into a bidding war for him. Garfein hoped that the Sox could get something for Eloy and said he was “perfectly fine” with Burger being the DH moving forward. He also said pretty strongly that Moncada will only be on the club through the 24 season. Both thought Giolito is gone come July…maybe Lynn, Kelly and Clevinger. Cease’s name was brought up as well since he could offer a decent return. Robert could also be traded according to McGuffy because he’s the only guy that would really bring back a big haul. Garfein wants to keep him and rebuild (retool) around him. Both opened the podcast by talking about how unbelievable it was that they had to be talking about this in the first place after so much was promised. Pretty frank assessment in my opinion. I recommend listening to it. (or watching it on You Tube) Thanks for posting and I did watch it. I loved their candid thoughts. The only point I disagree with was McGuffy wanting to trade Robert. Yes it might bring a big haul. However Robert is only 25 years old. There are not many talented 5-Tool players in baseball with the huge upside of Robert. Trading away Robert could possibly be one of those lifetime famous trades that become a nightmare. What Luis is doing in a lineup with TA .257 BA/.299 OBP and Benintendi .272 BA and 333 OBP is remarkable. You trade him away to some stronger team that has some dangerous on base hitters in front of him, along with more dangerous bats behind Luis and you will be looking at a perennial All-Star and MVP candidate. Let's hope the Sox can get the talent in the lineup around Luis to get the full potential out of him. Of course that will take a different GM. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthSideGeorgia Posted May 17, 2023 Share Posted May 17, 2023 The only way to get to +$80 million is: Giolito, Lynn, Clevinger gone Grandal, Andrus, Alberto gone Lopez, Middleton, Kelly, Graveman gone For about $84 million (bold names have to be trades) …and even with that amount of retooling, you probably should consider Hendriks too. …… Leaving just Cease and Kopech as starters. 😬 Vaughn, Anderson, Moncada, Eloy, Benintendi, Robert, Colas with holes at C and 2b. Bullpen would be Crochet, Bummer, Hendriks, Lambert, Santos, and maybe Banks. So lots of holes there… especially if you trade Hendriks. …… You could soft rebuild as above, but you’d need to try and swing deals for almost ready made starting pitchers (Dodgers farm has a ton). That is the single biggest gap next year. I almost would ask for just pitching in return for all trades because we are so deficient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirmin' for Yermin Posted May 17, 2023 Share Posted May 17, 2023 Henriks should really be traded asuming he pitches fine.. He would net you back a real good prospect (closer cost) and is only under control for 1.5 years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthSideGeorgia Posted May 17, 2023 Share Posted May 17, 2023 3 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said: Henriks should really be traded asuming he pitches fine.. He would net you back a real good prospect (closer cost) and is only under control for 1.5 years. I agree with that, although Sox may have to eat some of that salary to get a decent enough prospect. It’s still a very expensive salary. But I deal him… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshPR Posted May 17, 2023 Share Posted May 17, 2023 I saw the podcast it was great. Shows that everybody has the same sentiment about JR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted May 17, 2023 Share Posted May 17, 2023 Everything said was no wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almagest Posted May 17, 2023 Share Posted May 17, 2023 No way I trade Robert. You'd never get equivalent or higher value back. Build around him. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted May 17, 2023 Share Posted May 17, 2023 1 minute ago, almagest said: No way I trade Robert. You'd never get equivalent or higher value back. Build around him. Agreed. Hold onto him unless you’re blown away. They have him for 4 more years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirmin' for Yermin Posted May 17, 2023 Share Posted May 17, 2023 2 hours ago, SouthSideGeorgia said: I agree with that, although Sox may have to eat some of that salary to get a decent enough prospect. It’s still a very expensive salary. But I deal him… He salary is great for a top of the line closer. You'd grab a top 100 prospect easy. The problem will be... how he looks coming off of cancer and if he lost anything. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted May 17, 2023 Share Posted May 17, 2023 It’s cute they think JR will spend the money he cuts from the payroll via deadline trades 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshPR Posted May 17, 2023 Share Posted May 17, 2023 They said he should. But McGuffy was skeptical he would. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted May 17, 2023 Share Posted May 17, 2023 Doesn't even make any sense... Why would they cut that deeply... then turn around and suddenly trust Hahn to spend again into the $200 million range? Building around starting pitching as first priority instead? Well White Sox fans according to KW tend to prefer slugfests to pitching duels if they're going to be mediocre either way. Bullpen first? Seems like a big no. Signing a true superstar, beyond retaining Robert? Seems even less likely if Ohtani bidding legitimately ends up in the $400-500 million range... Hahn would somehow argue the new Moneyball niche is deals in the $60-80 million range for second and third tier veteran stars like Grandal Benintendi Hendriks etc. That seems the most disastrous direction of all. Setting the bar again at simply out spending the Central does nothing with Hahn still making decisions. "Unprecedented financial flexibility" ends up going poof in a second or two with his allocation style of mediocre yet pricey vets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted May 17, 2023 Share Posted May 17, 2023 Davis Martin getting surgery won’t help any rebuild Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted May 17, 2023 Share Posted May 17, 2023 7 minutes ago, fathom said: Davis Martin getting surgery won’t help any rebuild Just the idea of Martin... who was a Top 25-30 pitcher in one of the lowest ranked farm systems... ever being a key to the future is depressing. Might as well go with Cannon/Thompson because Vera doesn't seem to be happening anytime soon, either. Then there's the Schultz inactivity to top it off. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted May 17, 2023 Author Share Posted May 17, 2023 1 hour ago, fathom said: Davis Martin getting surgery won’t help any rebuild I haven't seen that, did they announce that recently? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted May 17, 2023 Author Share Posted May 17, 2023 I just saw the comments, well there you go. He had that forearm soreness in October and that set off warning signs. Since there was no surgery I'm guessing the Sox felt it would be OK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Hit Men Posted May 17, 2023 Share Posted May 17, 2023 They can get payroll down under $50M if they are aggressive the next six months. That would be my plan if I was Jerry, because they don’t plan on taking the steps to be competitive over Jerry’s remaining days/years. Sell a 2026-2027 l“multi championship competitive window” carrots to the few fans interested, and lots of fireworks, bobbleheads, hockey jerseys and other giveaways. Position Players $25.3M $12.5M L. Robert (CF) $2.5M A. Vaughn (1B) $1.8M H. Alberto (INF) $1.3M B. Hamilton (OF) $0.8M J. Burger (3B), Y. Cespedes (LF), O. Colas (RF), R. Gonzalez (2B), C. Perez (C), G. Sheets (DH), L. Sosa (SS), J. Rodriguez (2B-SS), S. Zavala (C). May 2025: C. Montgomery (SS) & B. Ramos (3B). Pitchers $22.4M $8.0M D. Cease (SP) $3.5M M. Kopech (SP) $1.5M G. Crochet (SP), J. Lambert (RP), K. Middleton (RP). $0.8M T. Banks (RP), S. Burke (SP), N. Padilla (RP), S. Peralta (RP), L. Ramsey (RP), G. Santos (RP), J. Stiever (SP), N. Vera (SP). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted May 17, 2023 Share Posted May 17, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said: They can get payroll down under $50M if they are aggressive the next six months. That would be my plan if I was Jerry, because they don’t plan on taking the steps to be competitive over Jerry’s remaining days/years. Sell a 2026-2027 l“multi championship competitive window” carrots to the few fans interested, and lots of fireworks, bobbleheads, hockey jerseys and other giveaways. Position Players $25.3M $12.5M L. Robert (CF) $2.5M A. Vaughn (1B) $1.8M H. Alberto (INF) $1.3M B. Hamilton (OF) $0.8M J. Burger (3B), Y. Cespedes (LF), O. Colas (RF), R. Gonzalez (2B), C. Perez (C), G. Sheets (DH), L. Sosa (SS), J. Rodriguez (2B-SS), S. Zavala (C). May 2025: C. Montgomery (SS) & B. Ramos (3B). Pitchers $22.4M $8.0M D. Cease (SP) $3.5M M. Kopech (SP) $1.5M G. Crochet (SP), J. Lambert (RP), K. Middleton (RP). $0.8M T. Banks (RP), S. Burke (SP), N. Padilla (RP), S. Peralta (RP), L. Ramsey (RP), G. Santos (RP), J. Stiever (SP), N. Vera (SP). Does Cespedes still exist? That window is more like 2027-30 and definitely will require Robert superstardom and a massive extension to get there. Cease and Kopech will be gone before the window even gets started... so it's basically rebuilding the entire rotation from scratch...but without Sale/Q/Eaton to kick start it. Let's just hope that Hendriks can get healthy enough to be traded off the roster to a contender. Finally, this scenario also requires someone willing to take Moncada and Benintendi... not easy to pull rabbits out of those hats. Edited May 17, 2023 by caulfield12 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Hit Men Posted May 17, 2023 Share Posted May 17, 2023 Just now, caulfield12 said: Does Cespedes still exist? The ML Minimum guys are interchangeable. Sox should be able to get a few playable pre arb players in return for dumping Anderson, Hendriks, Jimenez and Moncada. Maybe the Dodgers take Anderson plus Benintendi to replace Peralta. Yankees the only other team with a LF need and ability to eat that shitty Hahn contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted May 17, 2023 Share Posted May 17, 2023 (edited) 3 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said: The ML Minimum guys are interchangeable. Sox should be able to get a few playable pre arb players in return for dumping Anderson, Hendriks, Jimenez and Moncada. Maybe the Dodgers take Anderson plus Benintendi to replace Peralta. Yankees the only other team with a LF need and ability to eat that shitty Hahn contract. Yeah... they know relying on Heyward Thompson and Outman or Busch all holding their own into August and Sept is unlikely. Obviously still have Betts, so need one more OF. And Taylor now has to play the infield, 2B and SS. Edited May 17, 2023 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirmin' for Yermin Posted May 18, 2023 Share Posted May 18, 2023 Let's batch Anderson AND Giolito together and send them to Baltimore. weee. They've got a great system, haven't won in a long time (may think they can push), and have holes here (Mateo will regress and already has). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatScott82 Posted May 18, 2023 Share Posted May 18, 2023 (edited) On 5/17/2023 at 1:28 PM, fathom said: It’s cute they think JR will spend the money he cuts from the payroll via deadline trades Not only that, but the free agent class in 2024 and 2025 is not impressive at all. As McGuff eluded to in the podcast, Sox had their opportunity to sign multiple superstars to round out this rebuild and never did it. Rebuild, Retool, it doesn’t matter. As long as Jerry is the owner, this organization will be irrelevant. And we already know Hahn and KW are bad at their jobs, so even if JR did put financial constraints on this team, it would be nice to see some different minds be in charge of this thing. Perhaps people from successful organizations like Tampa, Houston or Atlanta. My expectation for this trade deadline is simple: Hahn will trade multiple pitchers for guys who will not contribute on this major league roster at all. But at the end of the day it will save Jerry $$$ and that’s a business win for the 87 year old business tycoon. Remember, he said it.. you can still have super successful years even if you finish in 2nd or 3rd place… 🥴 Good Lord, please let there be a new White Sox owner soon! Edited May 18, 2023 by GreatScott82 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dohnut Posted May 18, 2023 Share Posted May 18, 2023 7 hours ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said: Let's batch Anderson AND Giolito together and send them to Baltimore. weee. They've got a great system, haven't won in a long time (may think they can push), and have holes here (Mateo will regress and already has). MLB’s Top 10 “Buzzy” Trade Candidates https://www.mlb.com/news/mlb-trade-candidates-2023 Sox have 4 on the list: Gio, TA, Cease, and Grandal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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