Swing at Strikes

[harkness99]

For fucks sake what do I watch every day with this team.

 

It really is unbelievable how these guys get themselves out.

Do they watch the tape?... it doesn't take a lot of analysis to see the problem...

[The Mighty Mite]

19 minutes ago, harkness99 said:

For fucks sake what do I watch every day with this team.

 

It really is unbelievable how these guys get themselves out.

Do they watch the tape?... it doesn't take a lot of analysis to see the problem...

You really have to wonder what is their plan at the plate, it’s one thing when the pitcher gets you out but another thing when you constantly get yourself out. Baseball wise, we have some of the most mentally challenged players I have ever seen.

Edited June 3, 2023 by The Mighty Mite

[The Mighty Mite]

9 minutes ago, The Mighty Mite said:

 

 

 

 

Edited June 3, 2023 by The Mighty Mite

[SonofaRoache]

Part of being a good hitter is pitch recognition. Our guys flail because they don't pick up the pitch in time. Hanging sliders get popped up because they guess fastball and react late. Fastballs get hit into the dirt because they don't pick up the speed in time and swing late. 

[pcq]

Burger had terrible swings

[Harold's Leg Lift]

They should fire the hitting coach.

[Lip Man 1]

1 hour ago, The Mighty Mite said:

You really have to wonder what is their plan at the plate, it’s one thing when the pitcher gets you out but another thing when you constantly get yourself out. Baseball wise, we have some of the most mentally challenged players I have ever seen.

The White Sox have cornered the market on "baseball stupid" players both offensively, defensively and situational. 

[soxrwhite]

26 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

The White Sox have cornered the market on "baseball stupid" players both offensively, defensively and situational. 

I'd like to disagree but I can't

[harkness99]

4 hours ago, pcq said:

Burger had terrible swings

he swings at every pitch also...

 

its like they teach them to do this s%*#.. its so strange.

[soxrwhite]

There is no patience in the game today. Not only batters but management and especially fans want big hits and they want them now. Walks don't get hurrahs. You gotta swing in order to hit the ball. Team play is gone. The little things are laughable. Only the big splash gets you the acclaim and money.

[The Mighty Mite]

3 minutes ago, soxrwhite said:

There is no patience in the game today. Not only batters but management and especially fans want big hits and they want them now. Walks don't get hurrahs. You gotta swing in order to hit the ball. Team play is gone. The little things are laughable. Only the big splash gets you the acclaim and money.

The ugly truth.

[CentralChamps21]

16 hours ago, SonofaRoache said:

Part of being a good hitter is pitch recognition. Our guys flail because they don't pick up the pitch in time. Hanging sliders get popped up because they guess fastball and react late. Fastballs get hit into the dirt because they don't pick up the speed in time and swing late. 

 

15 hours ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

They should fire the hitting coach.

How much of this is coaching at the upper levels, how much of this is coaching at the lower levels, and how much of this is just acquiring guys who have better swing discipline?

It seems like the Sox are a magnet for guys who won't stop swinging? It's lasted through several managers and hitting coaches now.

[harkness99]

3 hours ago, soxrwhite said:

There is no patience in the game today. Not only batters but management and especially fans want big hits and they want them now. Walks don't get hurrahs. You gotta swing in order to hit the ball. Team play is gone. The little things are laughable. Only the big splash gets you the acclaim and money.

nah man its not that simple... good teams still know not to swing at every pitch.

 

For example, the dodgers have a 23% chase rate ... best in baseball

The white sox have a 33% chase rate. the worst in mlb.. the sox also lead the league in swinging in general.

 

basically they have a losing, undisciplined approach at the plate that has been allowed to fester for about a decade.

[The Kids Can Play]

 

As we've known for several years the White Sox are one the worst teams in baseball in plate discipline.

2023 league stats

Chase%              Swing %         1st Pitch Swing %  
33.3 - 30th        49.7 - 30th           32.4 - 25th

This pathetic lack of plate discipline in turn causes these horrible offensive stats:

  BB%                  BB%+             BB/K%                 OBP                OBP+
6.6% - 30th      77 - 30th        0.29% - 30th       .296 - 30th       93 - 30th

The fact it hasn't gotten any better, confirms as we've known for awhile...the GM, manager and coaching staff have done little to nothing to create a specific plan to improve this problem. Additionally, the players obviously don't care enough and are probably not sitting down and watching any or little tape of their AB's with the hitting coach. 

This starts at the top with Pedro who is over his head. He obviously is not making this a mandatory concern and project of making the players watch tape of their AB's and getting in that new batting machine that creates the off-speed secondary pitches.

The worst aspect of this dysfunctional front office, is the fact it exposes how inept the White Sox organization is regarding their scouting and development process and philosophies on hitting and plate discipline! The fact the White Sox keep drafting, trading for, or signing FA players with this terrible lack of plate discipline is a huge problem. 

[The Kids Can Play]

2 hours ago, CentralChamps21 said:

 

How much of this is coaching at the upper levels, how much of this is coaching at the lower levels, and how much of this is just acquiring guys who have better swing discipline?

It seems like the Sox are a magnet for guys who won't stop swinging? It's lasted through several managers and hitting coaches now.

You're right, it's not all on the hitting coach.

This inept front office is clueless in how to develop a strong philosophy in their scouting, drafting and coaching development of good plate discipline hitters. The fact is, the White Sox keep adding these dumb baseball IQ players to their roster. The Rays, Dodgers and other good teams, seem to avoid adding these type of horrible plate discipline players to their roster. 

[Timmy U]

I think this is on the scouting/players. Sox need to completely rethink their entire front office set up. I will give Shirley credit for Montgomery. He seems to have a good handle on the strike zone. Also, Tatum knows how to give a good at bat, otherwise the Sox minors are loaded with guys who swing at everything too.

[Chimpton]

13 hours ago, Timmy U said:

I think this is on the scouting/players. Sox need to completely rethink their entire front office set up. I will give Shirley credit for Montgomery. He seems to have a good handle on the strike zone. Also, Tatum knows how to give a good at bat, otherwise the Sox minors are loaded with guys who swing at everything too.

Not just the Front Office but how these players are coached on the way through the system. 

[Texsox]

23 hours ago, soxrwhite said:

There is no patience in the game today. Not only batters but management and especially fans want big hits and they want them now. Walks don't get hurrahs. You gotta swing in order to hit the ball. Team play is gone. The little things are laughable. Only the big splash gets you the acclaim and money.

 

 

[Texsox]

2 hours ago, Chimpton said:

Not just the Front Office but how these players are coached on the way through the system. 

From high school. 

[2Deep]

9th inning yesterday was a perfect example of how discipline wins games.

Moncada take a walk

Anderson takes a walk

Burger doesn't swing at crap and sits on a pitch and wins the game 

[JoeC]

3 hours ago, Texsox said:

From high school. 

Sure, but the Sox need to:

1. Identify coachable players (with talent and upside)

2. Develop and align on a vision of where the player ought to end up, what type of pitcher the player the organization sees in the future

3. Coach consistently across all levels of the minors (and big leagues) to give a continuity of instruction

Yeah, coaching starts in high school (or before), but that's not really something the Sox can control other than to assess its impact on the player at the time of acquisition.

[soxfaninfl]

1 hour ago, 2Deep said:

9th inning yesterday was a perfect example of how discipline wins games.

Moncada take a walk

Anderson takes a walk

Burger doesn't swing at crap and sits on a pitch and wins the game 

I have been hard on Grifol but I have to admit yesterday was one of his better managing efforts. Loading up on LH bats to face Lange is exactly how you should attack him. A LH bat can track his curve a lot easier and kudos to Pedro for seizing on an opportunity and not using his LH bats earlier.

And a wonderful job by Jake taking ball one. I had a feeling the minute the count was 1-0, Lange would have to throw a strike and Jake would find his pitch. Hope this and his walk earlier is an early sign of Jake maturing as a hitter. He just needs to be more selective because he murders anything middle down, especially middle out. Encouraging game all around.

[Texsox]

1 hour ago, JoeC said:

Sure, but the Sox need to:

1. Identify coachable players (with talent and upside)

2. Develop and align on a vision of where the player ought to end up, what type of pitcher the player the organization sees in the future

3. Coach consistently across all levels of the minors (and big leagues) to give a continuity of instruction

Yeah, coaching starts in high school (or before), but that's not really something the Sox can control other than to assess its impact on the player at the time of acquisition.

I agree the organization's coaching doesn't produce results as well as other organizations. 

I'm not exactly clear what you mean by coach consistently across all levels. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

On 6/4/2023 at 7:29 AM, CentralChamps21 said:

 

How much of this is coaching at the upper levels, how much of this is coaching at the lower levels, and how much of this is just acquiring guys who have better swing discipline?

It seems like the Sox are a magnet for guys who won't stop swinging? It's lasted through several managers and hitting coaches now.

A lot of it is development . Hitters become desirable if they can hit and good organizations, if they have to choose between one guy to draft or the other when it's a tossup do take the smart hitter who takes walks into great consideration because MLB pitching is so good and hitters develop better when they hit in zone pitches The Dodgers #9 prospect , who's in A+ ball (I forget his name) is a catcher who's OBP is over.400. Their #1 prospect is a catcher and they have Will Smith, one of the best catchers in the game.

Colas has this problem too and the coaches tried to make him more of a contact hitter and it almost seems like they zapped his power now. He's not hitting HR's in Charlotte and it seems as though he's taking more walks , but you don't want Colas becoming a singles hitter either when he can bash baseballs 450ft.  The hard part is still be able to take walks and hit HRs. If you can do that you can live with a high k rate.

It's not only pitch recognition because there's so much movement on pitches being thrown from the same arm slot but it's knowing the situation and knowing exactly how a guy pitches . If a guy gets tons of swings and misses out of the zone like Lange for Detroit does on his curve, a hitter has to know that.

TA made me crazy last night swinging on a 3-1 pitch well below the strike zone. Here it was 2 on, 1, out 3-1 count and Lange had just walked the hitter before him. You're one pitch away from loading the bases with 1 out in the bottom of the 9th. Baseball logic and the situation calls for taking the next pitch especially a guy with terrible launch angle problems and you don't want to GO into a DP. He's lucky he didn't get called out on strikes on the next pitch that was very close.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

3 hours ago, 2Deep said:

9th inning yesterday was a perfect example of how discipline wins games.

Moncada take a walk

Anderson takes a walk

Burger doesn't swing at crap and sits on a pitch and wins the game 

That Anderson AB though was nuts . I mean props to him for getting the count to 3-1 but the situation called for him to take the 3-1 pitch no matter what.