SoxAce Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 1 hour ago, Tony said: Jesus, your arms tired from holding that much water? Love James and his insight but you talk about Hahn and he'll defend him like his own kid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 21 minutes ago, SoxAce said: Love James and his insight but you talk about Hahn and he'll defend him like his own kid. Rick Hahn should be fired. I’ve been saying that. I just don’t think anything really changes if he’s the only one fired. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 Just now, Y2Jimmy0 said: Rick Hahn should be fired. I’ve been saying that. I just don’t think anything really changes if he’s the only one fired. I agree with you on this, James. Part of the reason why none of it changes is we all know Jerry will put someone else in that spot who is "already part of the family" and not want to be challenged by an outside voice. The entire thing needs to complete overhaul, entire organization needs to be blown up. But that doesn't change the fact Rick has been given rather large budgets over the years, and has done absolutely nothing with them. I refuse to believe there aren't GM's out there that wouldn't have done a MUCH better job over the last decade than Rick has. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greek-konerko Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 2 minutes ago, Tony said: I agree with you on this, James. Part of the reason why none of it changes is we all know Jerry will put someone else in that spot who is "already part of the family" and not want to be challenged by an outside voice. The entire thing needs to complete overhaul, entire organization needs to be blown up. But that doesn't change the fact Rick has been given rather large budgets over the years, and has done absolutely nothing with them. I refuse to believe there aren't GM's out there that wouldn't have done a MUCH better job over the last decade than Rick has. Hello its been a long time my prediction for today they won't trade core players if they do no season tickets they are not idiots and they will toy with us and say see we didn't trade them we Will compete which of course they won't do easy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reiks12 Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 Posting this now knowing i might look like a fool by dinner. We are not selling Cease (or TA, or Robert). Apparently it was difficult to convince JR to allow for the 2016 rebuild. There is no way he is going to go through it again. Jerry is on record multiple times saying its best to finish in second place, and that a 3rd or 4th place finish doesn't mean its not a successful year. Cease is the 'carrot on the stick' for fans who are naive enough to think this team has any chance next year. Reinsdorf gets off on controling the emotions of Sox fans. There will be a FA signing this offseason to 'give hope'. With another signing we might be able to envision us being .500. The division is so bad it might work. Sound familiar? They have been sprouting that for 2 years now. Thats the marketing campaign for 2024 as well. 2024 will be an awful, AWFUL year.. but they will use it to make 2025 look like the window is opening back up. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
striker Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 My sleeper for Cease is the Phillies. Two of Painter, Abel, McGarry. I know Painter had TJ, but maybe the Sox gamble on the upside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almagest Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 1 hour ago, bmags said: I truly don't think you can be good as the head of operations when you are unable to judge the performance of the teams you oversee. That's just incompatible. You don't even need to be a baseball person to do that. Work with each department on metrics like "How are players doing in each league? How are they doing when promoted? Are they ready for the majors?" Evaluate draft classes based on how many impact players you can get, and/or compare them to other teams known to be good at player development. Evaluate major league scouts on the talent you sign and trade for, and on team preparedness for each series. Once you have those metrics, USE THEM. Fire people not doing the job. Reward those who do. Find people from other organizations that do these things well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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Quin Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 1 hour ago, bmags said: I truly don't think you can be good as the head of operations when you are unable to judge the performance of the teams you oversee. That's just incompatible. To be a devil's advocate, would Kenny ever let Hahn fire his son? Finding out that KW Jr. is part of the player of development team might be the most annoying thing that I've recently discovered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolishPrince34 Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 24 minutes ago, Tony said: I agree with you on this, James. Part of the reason why none of it changes is we all know Jerry will put someone else in that spot who is "already part of the family" and not want to be challenged by an outside voice. The entire thing needs to complete overhaul, entire organization needs to be blown up. But that doesn't change the fact Rick has been given rather large budgets over the years, and has done absolutely nothing with them. I refuse to believe there aren't GM's out there that wouldn't have done a MUCH better job over the last decade than Rick has. I disagree with Jerry giving big budgets. I’m sure he’s smoking a cigar right now. This year’s team is down to $163 million after trades. Jerry is extremely happy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 I wonder what the return is going to be on a 40 year old pitcher owed $43 million in his age 41 season and then $35 million in his age 42 season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 1 minute ago, T R U said: I wonder what the return is going to be on a 40 year old pitcher owed $43 million in his age 41 season and then $35 million in his age 42 season. Probably similar to Scherzer I would guess. A prospect and the Mets pay down most of the salary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 16 minutes ago, PolishPrince34 said: I disagree with Jerry giving big budgets. I’m sure he’s smoking a cigar right now. This year’s team is down to $163 million after trades. Jerry is extremely happy! That still sounds like an enormous budget for a Reinsdorf owned team, especially one with the biggest attendance drop in the game this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtySox Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 Sounds like the Padres are interested in Verlander as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wegner Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 2 minutes ago, DirtySox said: Sounds like the Padres are interested in Verlander as well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 (edited) 8 minutes ago, DirtySox said: Sounds like the Padres are interested in Verlander as well. Preller can't realize they need a 1B/DH bat or another high leverage reliever. The team ERA is something like Top 2-3 in the majors. I guess at this point he has an addiction to making headlines whenever there's an opportunity. Sell high on Snell Soto Hader Lugo and they're all the way back to a Top 4-5 MiLB system again. Edited August 1 by caulfield12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 3 minutes ago, wegner said: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
striker Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 58 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said: Rick Hahn should be fired. I’ve been saying that. I just don’t think anything really changes if he’s the only one fired. James has always been critical of the front office but knows the real problem is ownership. I share this opinion. You probably get similar results with a new front office with the same ownership constraints. Jerry knows this too, which is why he won't fire anyone. Think an 87 year old, on death's doorstep, wants to go through a re-org process? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrathofhahn Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 I am not interested in trading Cease either unless there is a massive return. The question is though whether what we get back for our current group along with FA spending will be enough to contend next year. It's really up to Jerry. If he is willing to spend you can fill in many of these holes. If not tear it down 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 51 minutes ago, almagest said: You don't even need to be a baseball person to do that. Work with each department on metrics like "How are players doing in each league? How are they doing when promoted? Are they ready for the majors?" Evaluate draft classes based on how many impact players you can get, and/or compare them to other teams known to be good at player development. Evaluate major league scouts on the talent you sign and trade for, and on team preparedness for each series. Once you have those metrics, USE THEM. Fire people not doing the job. Reward those who do. Find people from other organizations that do these things well. If it was that easy wouldn't every organization and front office be successful and be winning teams? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 16 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: Preller can't realize they need a 1B/DH bat or another high leverage reliever. The team ERA is something like Top 2-3 in the majors. I guess at this point he has an addiction to making headlines whenever there's an opportunity. Sell high on Snell Soto Hader Lugo and they're all the way back to a Top 4-5 MiLB system again. The similarities between the Sox and Padres over the past 5 years is unparalleled. Irony is that fans would shower Preller with high praise every offseason, they actually spent the money to get Machado, meanwhile both organizations have seen similar arcs and are at similar crossroads today (at least the Padres won two playoff series last year I guess). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 9 minutes ago, wrathofhahn said: I am not interested in trading Cease either unless there is a massive return. The question is though whether what we get back for our current group along with FA spending will be enough to contend next year. It's really up to Jerry. If he is willing to spend you can fill in many of these holes. If not tear it down No, it will not. Look at the Mets this year. If you even try to buy out the entire FA market, does that take a team that is on a path to a well deserved 90+ loss season and turn them into competitive? No. You have to have some support from a strong team infrastructure, the White Sox don't have that, and even if they did, there isn't all that much on the FA market next offseason anyway. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 (edited) 9 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: The similarities between the Sox and Padres over the past 5 years is unparalleled. Irony is that fans would shower Preller with high praise every offseason, they actually spent the money to get Machado, meanwhile both organizations have seen similar arcs and are at similar crossroads today (at least the Padres won two playoff series last year I guess). Three if you count Cardinals in 2020. Obviously the fans are disappointed this year but well over 30 sellouts and counting vs. the biggest percentage attendance fall. The one thing I will give to Preller is that he really knows how to build a farm system and will at a minimum get offers to be farm system director from a number of clubs if Seidler pushes him out. I also think Bochy would have been a better choice than Melvin because Bruce understands how to win on the biggest stage. We also shouldn't forget how many times the White Sox supposedly won the offseason under a Hahn...to the point where it became a joke that it was much more likely than a parade for actual, in season results in the standings. Edited August 1 by caulfield12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 6 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: No, it will not. Look at the Mets this year. If you even try to buy out the entire FA market, does that take a team that is on a path to a well deserved 90+ loss season and turn them into competitive? No. You have to have some support from a strong team infrastructure, the White Sox don't have that, and even if they did, there isn't all that much on the FA market next offseason anyway. The Rangers are clearly the example to follow...minus deGrom Rocker Leiter. But we can't even get ONE $100 million player...let alone multiples of $200-300 million stars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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