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Guess Trade Values of Sox Starters


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The Sox are playing this by ear.There has been no defined plan.  Crochet and the Sox are willing to see how it goes. Crochet has stated on a few occasions that he is fine pushing the envelop.

He's grown up since he was drafted. He looks bigger and stronger. He's really taken to the starters role and pitching every 5th day. I don't think there's a chance in hell Crochet will want to pitch in relief for the rest of the season. He likes the schedule he's on now.

Maybe we can all agree that it's very encouraging and ,quite frankly, somewhat amazing he has done so well and remainly healthy .

I think Crochet has been treated a lot better than Rodon was in 2021 .

The 1st half of 2021 when Rodon was dominant was the height of the rebuild.

The 2nd half of 2021 when Rodon was wearing down and the Sox played .500 the rest of the way was the beginning of the end of the rebuild.

I'd say the odds on Crochet getting traded are about 4:1. It's not very likely.

However ,if he does get traded it'll be a good offer that Getz found too good to pass up.

Crochet might've got hurt no matter what role he pitched while he was still growing into his body. This might be the new direction/ experiment on how to maintain arm health. I think we're seeing it now with Noah Schultz.Build the arm slowly ,monitor constantly.

Baby them through physical maturity and see if they can avoid TJ surgery in their early 20s while building arm strength as they grow into their more adult mature body.

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7 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

I don't think they will shut him down nor pitch him in relief but there has to be at least 1 or 2, maybe 3 phantom 15-Day IL stints coming, right?

Man who knows.  I wish it was as simple as waiting until Crochet says he’s feeling fatigue.  Let the big dog eat til he’s full

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16 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

I don't think they will shut him down nor pitch him in relief but there has to be at least 1 or 2, maybe 3 phantom 15-Day IL stints coming, right?

I'd have thought he'd have had one by now. I remember at one point someone (Getz?) said he had no inning limit and they were gunna run him out there or something to that effect.

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3 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

They are trying to thread the needle like they did with Sale and Quintana in their rookie seasons.  Hopefully it happens. 

Good point. In Chris’ first season as a starter he threw 192 innings. His prior single season high was 71. I bet Soxtalk posters were imposing an innings limit on him too going into the 2012 season.

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8 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Good point. In Chris’ first season as a starter he threw 192 innings. His prior single season high was 71. I bet Soxtalk posters were imposing an innings limit on him too going into the 2012 season.

And even that 70 innings is appreciably higher than what Crochet has done.

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11 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

And even that 70 innings is appreciably higher than what Crochet has done.

Garrett threw 54.1 innings a few seasons ago so not too different really. I think everyone imposing a ~100 inning limit on Garrett this season is in for a surprise, assuming he stays healthy. Been saying it for awhile. Wouldn’t shock me if he throws 150 innings. And what if other teams aren’t concerned about a limit this year either? Very well could be the top starter available on the trade market in 6 weeks.

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Posted (edited)

Why do so many think we have a lot of tradeable players? Looking at the Sox 40 man, here are the only tradeable guys that anybody might want:

Crochet - yes Sox probably will get some top prospects for him. Better pick the right ones. Kopech - Dream on for getting anybody good, but somebody would probably want him. Leasure - Yes. Somebody will want him but will we get anybody better than Leasure in return? Doubtful. That's it for pitchers. Nobody else will be desired including Fedde, Clevinger, Banks, Flexen, Brebbia, Soroka, Pastrami.

Everyday players: Pham might bring a prospect or two, possibly not though. Robert: Would probably bring a haul like Crochet. Eloy - I'll say nobody wants him at this stage. DeJong - Maybe somebody will take him for some stiff Class A player but I doubt it. He's no good. Moncada - Doubt any team is dumb enough to take him but maybe get a non prospect or two for him.  Nobody wants Andrew or Sheets or Beni. Nobody wants Julks or Maldy or Colas.

So in conclusion: Yeah you'll get some fine prospects for Crochet and Robert and maybe Leasure. That's it though. And the loss of those two will help the Sox in their quest for 45 wins in 2025. The only plan I see in this organization is for some sick reason wanting to be out of the race by the end of April every year.

Edited by greg775
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1 hour ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Good point. In Chris’ first season as a starter he threw 192 innings. His prior single season high was 71. I bet Soxtalk posters were imposing an innings limit on him too going into the 2012 season.

Sale threw 143 innings the year he was drafted. 

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32 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Sale threw 143 innings the year he was drafted. 

That’s a good point. The most Garrett ever threw in a college season was 65 innings. But this is also the first time he’s ever been a starting pitcher only. Every other season he was either a reliever or a mix of starting and relieving. I wonder if the consistency of a starter’s schedule is easier on his body?

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2 hours ago, greg775 said:

Why do so many think we have a lot of tradeable players? Looking at the Sox 40 man, here are the only tradeable guys that anybody might want:

Crochet - yes Sox probably will get some top prospects for him. Better pick the right ones. Kopech - Dream on for getting anybody good, but somebody would probably want him. Leasure - Yes. Somebody will want him but will we get anybody better than Leasure in return? Doubtful. That's it for pitchers. Nobody else will be desired including Fedde, Clevinger, Banks, Flexen, Brebbia, Soroka, Pastrami.

Everyday players: Pham might bring a prospect or two, possibly not though. Robert: Would probably bring a haul like Crochet. Eloy - I'll say nobody wants him at this stage. DeJong - Maybe somebody will take him for some stiff Class A player but I doubt it. He's no good. Moncada - Doubt any team is dumb enough to take him but maybe get a non prospect or two for him.  Nobody wants Andrew or Sheets or Beni. Nobody wants Julks or Maldy or Colas.

So in conclusion: Yeah you'll get some fine prospects for Crochet and Robert and maybe Leasure. That's it though. And the loss of those two will help the Sox in their quest for 45 wins in 2025. The only plan I see in this organization is for some sick reason wanting to be out of the race by the end of April every year.

As I've previously posted given the limitations imposed by the owner, can you think of another way to try to win? 

The only way I can see is what they are doing, keep trading guys, keep getting back young, cost controlled talent and hope it works.

Now if you can convince JR to really open his checkbook, fire his toadies and bring in established winning baseball executives I'd be happy to try another way.

Until then just hang in there and see what new ownership brings. 

 

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7 hours ago, Bob Sacamano said:

I don't think they will shut him down nor pitch him in relief but there has to be at least 1 or 2, maybe 3 phantom 15-Day IL stints coming, right?

I wouldn't even venture a guess. Phantom DL stints don't exactly send a positive message out to other teams about his health.

Who knows maybe if he's healthy he'll agree to being a 1-3 inning opener in the minors so the Sox can recover some of his time in exchange for a mutually beneficial extension . But that seems rather remote.

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2 hours ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Good point. In Chris’ first season as a starter he threw 192 innings. His prior single season high was 71. I bet Soxtalk posters were imposing an innings limit on him too going into the 2012 season.

Sale threw a 136 innings in 2010 across college, the minors, and the majors.  His arm had previously been conditioned for a 60 inning jump.  I don’t think anyone felt an innings limit was needed there.  Crochet meanwhile has never experienced anything close to that level of workload and it’s all but certain his arm will start wearing out at some point.  There is a reason Noah Schultz is being once a week and for four innings a start.  Going 0 to 60 when it comes to arm conditioning is risky and there is zero to push to unreasonable levels when we are possibly the worst team in modern baseball history.

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1 hour ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

That’s a good point. The most Garrett ever threw in a college season was 65 innings. But this is also the first time he’s ever been a starting pitcher only. Every other season he was either a reliever or a mix of starting and relieving. I wonder if the consistency of a starter’s schedule is easier on his body?

The 143 ( actually about 147) was 103 in college and another 44 in the minors in 2010. In 2011 it was 71 innings all in relief . Then it was 192 in his 1st year as a SP with the Sox .

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1 hour ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

That’s a good point. The most Garrett ever threw in a college season was 65 innings. But this is also the first time he’s ever been a starting pitcher only. Every other season he was either a reliever or a mix of starting and relieving. I wonder if the consistency of a starter’s schedule is easier on his body?

Starting is easier on all pitchers body's.  There's a very good reason why relievers are so volatile. There's no routine.  It's just up and down, up and down, max effort on every pitch until you break then they bring in the next guy.   

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52 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

Starting is easier on all pitchers body's.  There's a very good reason why relievers are so volatile. There's no routine.  It's just up and down, up and down, max effort on every pitch until you break then they bring in the next guy.   

Unless you have those individually devastating pitches like a Mariano Rivera or Trevor Hoffman, etc.

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9 hours ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

Starting is easier on all pitchers body's.  There's a very good reason why relievers are so volatile. There's no routine.  It's just up and down, up and down, max effort on every pitch until you break then they bring in the next guy.   

Right and that’s what I think is being overlooked here. Everyone is focused on the total innings pitched while 150 innings in a season as a starter might be easier on someone like Garrett than 50 innings as a reliever.

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Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Garrett threw 54.1 innings a few seasons ago so not too different really. I think everyone imposing a ~100 inning limit on Garrett this season is in for a surprise, assuming he stays healthy. Been saying it for awhile. Wouldn’t shock me if he throws 150 innings. And what if other teams aren’t concerned about a limit this year either? Very well could be the top starter available on the trade market in 6 weeks.

Sorry, dude.  You have a history of over-hyping and over-expecting on trade return.  Cease didn’t return anywhere near as much as you expected and neither would a worn-down Crochet.

Edited by WhiteSox2023
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2 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Sorry, dude.  You have a history of over-hyping and over-expecting on trade return.  Cease didn’t return anywhere near as much as you expected and neither would a worn-down Crochet.

Sox landed 3 of the Padres top 8 prospects and a late inning MLB reliever. Was it really that far off dude?

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Sox landed 3 of the Padres top 8 prospects and a late inning MLB reliever. Was it really that far off dude?

From what you said, yes.  What two prospects did the Sox acquire for Cease in the 50-100 MLB range?  Thorpe is one.  A second one in that range would be a much larger return than just one, and what the Sox ultimately received.

Quote

Orioles fans won’t like this but I believe Cease’s value right now is comparable to Luis Castillo in July 2022. The Reds landed 3 of the Mariners top 5 prospects (1 was fringe top 10 in mlb, 1 was top 100 in mlb, 1 was fringe top 100 in mlb) and then a lotto prospect. I don’t think Cease will land a top 10 prospect but 2 in the 50-100 range and 2 in the 100-200 range is certainly possible.

Edited by WhiteSox2023
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2 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

From what you said, yes.  What two prospects did the Sox acquire for Cease in the 50-100 MLB range?  Thorpe is one.  A second in that territory would be a much larger return than just one.

Nitpick much? Yes, they got 1 in the 50-100 range and 2 in the 100-200 range plus a high leverage cost controlled MLB reliever that should return another 100-200 type if they decide to trade in 6 weeks. I’d say I was nearly spot on!!

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1 minute ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Nitpick much? Yes, they got 1 in the 50-100 range and 2 in the 100-200 range plus a high leverage cost controlled MLB reliever that should return another 100-200 type if they decide to trade in 6 weeks. I’d say I was nearly spot on!!

Whatever you say…  🙄

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8 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Sox landed 3 of the Padres top 8 prospects and a late inning MLB reliever. Was it really that far off dude?

Fact remains, Sox did not get much for Cease.

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