Balta1701 Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 6 minutes ago, GreenSox said: I will preface this by saying that Law is my favorite evaluator, and I think his ranking of the Sox farm is closer to reality than Kiley's at #2. That said, this review seems gratuitously harsh. He's really over the top with Montgomery. It's hard to understand how he could rank the farm as high as he has, given these individual writeups. One of the things law noted in his league-wide review was that he felt like the minor leagues were in really bad shape this year, without a lot of talent present, so if he thinks they're 12 this year, they might have been lower if he felt the minors were more normal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 11 minutes ago, GreenSox said: I will preface this by saying that Law is my favorite evaluator, and I think his ranking of the Sox farm is closer to reality than Kiley's at #2. That said, this review seems gratuitously harsh. He's really over the top with Montgomery. It's hard to understand how he could rank the farm as high as he has, given these individual writeups. Mostly I think we all get used to reading Blue Sky write ups from people more interested in protecting sources and keeping them happy then being full accurate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeC Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 5 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: Mostly I think we all get used to reading Blue Sky write ups from people more interested in protecting sources and keeping them happy then being full accurate. That's why I'd be interested to see retrospectives written on these rankings. Like, 10 years later, who was right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 5 hours ago, Balta1701 said: Well it depends on the quality free agent though. I could see the motivation for signing a shortstop if they were young enough, although there's several arguments against it. Losing a 2nd round draft pick doesn't seem smart if there's a QO attached to anyone, and even if you could develop a defense-first SS, doing so internally using the available playing time would be a big boost. Signing a SS to a 2 year deal, why? That's all he got from the Rays. You're going to have to pay a premium price to sign him, and you can sign him in 2 years if the position is still available and if he's still healthy. Signing an expensive OF/DH/1b, why? Just no, too many guys could get moved to those slots. Why would the Sox have lost a draft pick for signing Kim? And I would have given him a 5 year deal to lower the AAV. He’s only 29 years old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 7 hours ago, southsider2k5 said: You can continue to cry about posts from a month ago, or realize that if Colson Montgomery, and guys like him, really do bust, a 4 or 5 year contract wouldn't make a damned bit of difference to this franchise. It’s not about if he busts or not. Colson is NOT a mlb shortstop. It’s really that simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 7 hours ago, southsider2k5 said: You can continue to cry about posts from a month ago, or realize that if Colson Montgomery, and guys like him, really do bust, a 4 or 5 year contract wouldn't make a damned bit of difference to this franchise. Of course it would. The White Sox need to field a professional roster. Having big leaguers on your team is a good thing. I'm not sure where fans lost that idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 22 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: It’s not about if he busts or not. Colson is NOT a mlb shortstop. It’s really that simple. Which makes spending on free agents and even bigger waste of money as this team is even further from contending. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 11 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Of course it would. The White Sox need to field a professional roster. Having big leaguers on your team is a good thing. I'm not sure where fans lost that idea. With a 121 loss team, it is pissing into a headwind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 Maybe Law is harsh here -- time will tell -- but it's not like it doesn't sound like more of the same thing we've experienced as fans for the last 20 years with this team. The Sox simply cannot develop players. The failure rate is remarkably predictable and the narrative remarkably consistent. The ones that get through are largely able to do it through sheer raw talent, and even still frequently improve when they leave via trade or free agency despite advancing age. They take good prospects from other systems and just consistently waste them; these guys get to the highest levels with all of the same flaws they had all along, and without significant growth in their strengths beyond what can be gained from simple reps. Until this changes, there is no hope for this franchise. Forget about JR and his self-immolating free agency policy, his refusal to do whatever it takes to build a credible player development system is his true curse on the White Sox. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 18 minutes ago, Eminor3rd said: Maybe Law is harsh here -- time will tell -- but it's not like it doesn't sound like more of the same thing we've experienced as fans for the last 20 years with this team. The Sox simply cannot develop players. The failure rate is remarkably predictable and the narrative remarkably consistent. The ones that get through are largely able to do it through sheer raw talent, and even still frequently improve when they leave via trade or free agency despite advancing age. They take good prospects from other systems and just consistently waste them; these guys get to the highest levels with all of the same flaws they had all along, and without significant growth in their strengths beyond what can be gained from simple reps. Until this changes, there is no hope for this franchise. Forget about JR and his self-immolating free agency policy, his refusal to do whatever it takes to build a credible player development system is his true curse on the White Sox. With so much regression across the board last year it is hard to have the same prospect optimism as the last rebuild, especially since the offensive guys don't have the ceilings that Yoan, Eloy, and Robert had to start with. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 7 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: With so much regression across the board last year it is hard to have the same prospect optimism as the last rebuild, especially since the offensive guys don't have the ceilings that Yoan, Eloy, and Robert had to start with. It's an important point. When every player's final form is some fraction of their current form, you need to begin with a tremendous amount of upside to end up with a prayer at a contender. The White Sox an get an elite draft pick, signing, or acquisition to the MLB, but when was the last time they "developed" a guy where whole seemed greater than the parts? Even randomness should have produced a few by now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 2 hours ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Why would the Sox have lost a draft pick for signing Kim? And I would have given him a 5 year deal to lower the AAV. He’s only 29 years old. For this player at present they wouldnt. However, they would have for Santander and Alonso, both of whom you’ve suggested signing this offseason. I could not tell that this post applied to only one player. For this player, Kim, he CLEARLY does not want a 5 year deal at reduced annual salary because he accepted a short term deal with an opt out after year 1. His goal is to prove he’s a solid player this year or this year and next year and test the free agent market again. Even if you made the full contract offer a lot richer, he wants to hit free agency again so you’d just be increasing your payments if he sucks or is hurt. Furthermore, by signing with the Rays, he gives himself a good chance of playing competitive games this year and a good performance in those games or in the playoffs could make him more money - in Chicago you’d have to pay a year 1 premium because the only way he’d play competitive baseball is if he were traded, which is disruptive as well. This fit is terrible from the players perspective, so you better be shelling out a much higher salary in Y1 and your spread out the payment plan shows you didn’t pay attention to the contract he signed. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 (edited) 11 hours ago, Balta1701 said: For this player at present they wouldnt. However, they would have for Santander and Alonso, both of whom you’ve suggested signing this offseason. I could not tell that this post applied to only one player. For this player, Kim, he CLEARLY does not want a 5 year deal at reduced annual salary because he accepted a short term deal with an opt out after year 1. His goal is to prove he’s a solid player this year or this year and next year and test the free agent market again. Even if you made the full contract offer a lot richer, he wants to hit free agency again so you’d just be increasing your payments if he sucks or is hurt. Furthermore, by signing with the Rays, he gives himself a good chance of playing competitive games this year and a good performance in those games or in the playoffs could make him more money - in Chicago you’d have to pay a year 1 premium because the only way he’d play competitive baseball is if he were traded, which is disruptive as well. This fit is terrible from the players perspective, so you better be shelling out a much higher salary in Y1 and your spread out the payment plan shows you didn’t pay attention to the contract he signed. Well, Boras is his agent ofc. As long as the field conditions are always major league quality...but they use/d that field for MLB spring training for Yankees so not an issue. Normally A...especially Low A vs High A fields don't offer the ideal fielding conditions, leading to lots of "unforced errors" which would drag down his fWAR and bWAR. (There will still be leaguewide complaints about the oppressive summer heat in SAC though.) Edited February 5 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 5 hours ago, Balta1701 said: For this player at present they wouldnt. However, they would have for Santander and Alonso, both of whom you’ve suggested signing this offseason. I could not tell that this post applied to only one player. For this player, Kim, he CLEARLY does not want a 5 year deal at reduced annual salary because he accepted a short term deal with an opt out after year 1. His goal is to prove he’s a solid player this year or this year and next year and test the free agent market again. Even if you made the full contract offer a lot richer, he wants to hit free agency again so you’d just be increasing your payments if he sucks or is hurt. Furthermore, by signing with the Rays, he gives himself a good chance of playing competitive games this year and a good performance in those games or in the playoffs could make him more money - in Chicago you’d have to pay a year 1 premium because the only way he’d play competitive baseball is if he were traded, which is disruptive as well. This fit is terrible from the players perspective, so you better be shelling out a much higher salary in Y1 and your spread out the payment plan shows you didn’t pay attention to the contract he signed. Boy, that’s an awful lot of assumptions about what Kim wanted from a contract. Ever think 2 years $29M guaranteed is the best offer he could get? I bet he would have been thrilled by an offer of 5/$60M, just like I’m sure Cody Bellinger would have been thrilled by offers longer with more guaranteed money than what he got from the Cubs in 2023 or 2024. One thing is sure, the longer these Boras guys wait into the offseason in recent years, the more it tends to backfire in a big way. Alonso ain’t getting anywhere near Prince Fielder’s $214M… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 8 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Boy, that’s an awful lot of assumptions about what Kim wanted from a contract. Ever think 2 years $29M guaranteed is the best offer he could get? I bet he would have been thrilled by an offer of 5/$60M, just like I’m sure Cody Bellinger would have been thrilled by offers longer with more guaranteed money than what he got from the Cubs in 2023 or 2024. One thing is sure, the longer these Boras guys wait into the offseason in recent years, the more it tends to backfire in a big way. Alonso ain’t getting anywhere near Prince Fielder’s $214M… And Bregman already turned down 6/$156 from Houston in December but seems to still have at least 4-6 bidders. Alonso's market has to be down just to 2-3 options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 9 hours ago, southsider2k5 said: With so much regression across the board last year it is hard to have the same prospect optimism as the last rebuild, especially since the offensive guys don't have the ceilings that Yoan, Eloy, and Robert had to start with. I think there were some wins too though. Noah Schultz has elevated significantly to what he’s become. Peyton Pallette, Jonathan Cannon, Davis Martin and Aldrin Batista are big positives. They need to see some gains on position player side but Ryan Fuller was hired for a reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 4 hours ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Boy, that’s an awful lot of assumptions about what Kim wanted from a contract. Ever think 2 years $29M guaranteed is the best offer he could get? I bet he would have been thrilled by an offer of 5/$60M, just like I’m sure Cody Bellinger would have been thrilled by offers longer with more guaranteed money than what he got from the Cubs in 2023 or 2024. One thing is sure, the longer these Boras guys wait into the offseason in recent years, the more it tends to backfire in a big way. Alonso ain’t getting anywhere near Prince Fielder’s $214M… 1. As we discussed. This is because Prince Fieldwr was vastly better and younger than Pete Alonso. 2. So a guy gets $13 million this year, with an opt out, and you say that by giving him $12 million a year over 5 years you’re spreading the money out. Riiiiiight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 6 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: 1. As we discussed. This is because Prince Fieldwr was vastly better and younger than Pete Alonso. 2. So a guy gets $13 million this year, with an opt out, and you say that by giving him $12 million a year over 5 years you’re spreading the money out. Riiiiiight. I’m not following you on #2. Are you saying he would prefer his contract with the Rays over 5/$60M guaranteed today? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 (edited) 1 hour ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: I’m not following you on #2. Are you saying he would prefer his contract with the Rays over 5/$60M guaranteed today? Yes, at his age and if he believes (and Boras concurs) that he's a $20-25 million per year SS anywhere near his 2023 performance level. 5 Years from now he would only be able to get a two or maybe three year deal. Depends on how strongly he believes the shoulder injury is behind him. Edited February 5 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 12 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: Yes, at his age and if he believes (and Boris concurs) that he's a $20-25 million per year SS anywhere near his 2023 performance level. 5 Years from now he would only be able to get a two or maybe three year deal. Depends on how strongly he believes the shoulder injury is behind him. I don’t think anyone can definitively say he would choose one offer over the other is my point. Most guys are interested in the most amount of money offered when they hit free agency for the first time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 25 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: I’m not following you on #2. Are you saying he would prefer his contract with the Rays over 5/$60M guaranteed today? You would offer a guy 5/$60M if his best offer is 2/$29M? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 The White Sox system is ranked #12 by Keith Law, #2 by ESPN and #4 by Baseball America so far. MLB Pipeline hasn't released yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said: The White Sox system is ranked #12 by Keith Law, #2 by ESPN and #4 by Baseball America so far. MLB Pipeline hasn't released yet. 6th...although Pipeline should pull that average closer to 4/5, in all likelihood. By Prospect Points...#1 is worth 100, #2 99 etc. they were actually #1, but that doesn't measure anything besides Top 100 guys tbf. https://www.mlb.com/news/front-office-executives-poll-for-farm-systems-2025 MLB Execs voting here they were 4th, but that would fall to fifth with Sasaki signing after article came out. Edited February 5 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 3 hours ago, Y2Jimmy0 said: I think there were some wins too though. Noah Schultz has elevated significantly to what he’s become. Peyton Pallette, Jonathan Cannon, Davis Martin and Aldrin Batista are big positives. They need to see some gains on position player side but Ryan Fuller was hired for a reason. I have a hard time counting Pallette failing as a starter this quickly as a win, but it's nice he looks at least like a reliever. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 6 hours ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Boy, that’s an awful lot of assumptions about what Kim wanted from a contract. Ever think 2 years $29M guaranteed is the best offer he could get? I bet he would have been thrilled by an offer of 5/$60M, just like I’m sure Cody Bellinger would have been thrilled by offers longer with more guaranteed money than what he got from the Cubs in 2023 or 2024. One thing is sure, the longer these Boras guys wait into the offseason in recent years, the more it tends to backfire in a big way. Alonso ain’t getting anywhere near Prince Fielder’s $214M… Buy my house, please. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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