Who Won the Third Debate

[Chisoxfn]

Didn't see a poll for this so I figured i'd make one, considering their was one for the first two debates.

[Chisoxfn]

Bush, for reasons I gave in the other debate thread.

[jackie hayes]

Kerry, although neither was great. Bush skirted a number of key issues too obviously (Roe v Wade, affirmative action, assault weapons ban). He did sound much better than Kerry on border issues.

[FlaSoxxJim]

Kerry, although neither was great.  Bush skirted a number of key issues too obviously (Roe v Wade, affirmative action, assault weapons ban).  He did sound much better than Kerry on border issues.

Bush stepped in it on boarder issues when he said the border issues were better protected now that he's NOT the Gov. of Texas.... and sadly Kerry didn't quip that it is just one of many things better in Texas now that he's not running the show. I understand that his comments were given in a post-9/11 context, but it was a great soundbyte opportunity and Kerry didn't pounce on it.

 

But that is just one of several examples of where Bush's train of thought just got derailed last night. The biggest one was where he started to answer a question with something like, "that reminds me of the.... Oh, never mind...," like there was some implicit joke there pregnant with meaning.

 

Bush completely sidestepped the Roe v/Wade question - it was not a question about how he'd go about selecting Justices, it was a matter of fact inquiry as to whether HE would like to see it overturned.

 

And he failed to answere a number of questions in similar fashion... what he would say to a guy out of work turns into a rant on the need for early testing and head starts and bridging the performance gap in education. So he's essentially telling the blue collar out of work family man, you've outlived your usefulness but hey go back to school and learn some 21st century skills and you'll be set (nevermind the roof he can't keep over his head and the family he can't cloth of feed in the meantime).

 

Sadly, Kerry would follow suit on those questions instead of staying on-point. He wanted to follow up on everything Bush said and unfortunately that kept him from getting to the heart of some things as well.

 

Nor was Bush convincing when he said his religion was a personal issue that he doesn't try to push on others. That is precisely what you do when you attempt to legislate morality through constututional ass-wiping. Kerry, on the other hand, was sincere in stressing that he cannot in good consious categorically tell people what is right because his religion informs him. He publicly acknowledged the catholic vote is split on him, and that he's wrestled his whole life trying to rectify matters of faith with matters of social responsibility and personal freedom. His answers on religious matters were also much more inclusive of the divrsity of faith here and around the world.

 

And finally, there's that Orwellian Bush spin machine - the same one that gives Rummy the audacity to say in plain english that there's no tangible connection between Bin Laden and Iraq, and then 15 minutes later when he realizes he's undermined his Administration's now transparent position of the issue says, No, I was misunderstood. Yesterday, Bush was reminded that HE was the one that said he really doesn't spend that much time worrying about bin Laden (remember, the guy who really DID attack us?), and we've all seen the quote, seen the video of the quote, and then he can still say, 'well there you go, that's just another one of those exaggerations.'

 

19 days and counting for people to wake the f*** up.

[mmmmmbeeer]

Bush stepped in it on boarder issues when he said the border issues were better protected now that he's NOT the Gov. of Texas.... and sadly Kerry didn't quip that it is just one of many things better in Texas now that he's not running the show.  I understand that his comments were given in a post-9/11 context, but it was a great soundbyte opportunity and Kerry didn't pounce on it.

 

But that is just one of several examples of where Bush's train of thought just got derailed last night.  The biggest one was where he started to answer a question with something like, "that reminds me of the.... Oh, never mind...," like there was some implicit joke there pregnant with meaning.

 

Bush completely sidestepped the Roe v/Wade question - it was not a question about how he'd go about selecting Justices, it was a matter of fact inquiry as to whether HE would like to see it overturned.

 

And he failed to answere a number of questions in similar fashion... what he would say to a guy out of work turns into a rant on the need for early testing and head starts and bridging the performance gap in education.  So he's essentially telling the blue collar out of work family man, you've outlived your usefulness but hey go back to school and learn some 21st century skills and you'll be set (nevermind the roof he can't keep over his head and the family he can't cloth of feed in the meantime).

 

Sadly, Kerry would follow suit on those questions instead of staying on-point.  He wanted to follow up on everything Bush said and unfortunately that kept him from getting to the heart of some things as well.

 

Nor was Bush convincing when he said his religion was a personal issue that he doesn't try to push on others.  That is precisely what you do when you attempt to legislate morality through constututional ass-wiping.  Kerry, on the other hand, was sincere in stressing that he cannot in good consious categorically tell people what is right because his religion informs him.  He publicly acknowledged the catholic vote is split on him, and that he's wrestled his whole life trying to rectify matters of faith with matters of social responsibility and personal freedom.  His answers on religious matters were also much more inclusive of the divrsity of faith here and around the world.

 

And finally, there's that Orwellian Bush spin machine - the same one that gives Rummy the audacity to say in plain english that there's no tangible connection between Bin Laden and Iraq, and then 15 minutes later when he realizes he's undermined his Administration's now transparent position of the issue says, No, I was misunderstood.  Yesterday, Bush was reminded that HE was the one that said he really doesn't spend that much time worrying about bin Laden (remember, the guy who really DID attack us?), and we've all seen the quote, seen the video of the quote, and then he can still say, 'well there you go, that's just another one of those exaggerations.'

 

19 days and counting for people to wake the f*** up.

Was this post penned in the "spin" room? You bring up some very valid points about Bush's performance, although I wouldn't say that he skirted more questions than Kerry. The one question I was impressed by Bush that I wish would have been aimed at Kerry, was the flu vaccine question. I refuse to believe that either candidate was prepared for this question and opened the door for a blatant question avoidance. Bush stepped up though, I liked the fact that he actually knew what the situation was and gave a very blunt answer. Even after hearing Bush's answer, Kerry completely avoided the question and seemed dumbfounded that the issue was even being discussed.

 

I really don't give two s***s about the situation with the flu vaccine but their responses told me a lot. Bush, while being groomed for the campaign trail, still is aware and understands issues that fall well outside of that campaign grind. Kerry does nothing more than regurgitate the facts and buzzwords his campaign managers and advisers drill into his hairy head and has no ability to think "outside the box".

 

I'm truly frustrated by both of these fools. I can't believe that these two are our choices for leader of the free world.

[southsider2k5]

Bush had an excellent night last night. he finally had some facts and figures to back up his contentions against John Kerry's plans. Instead of just relying on cute sound bytes, he actually had some solid stuff to back up his contentions.

 

Bush finally won a debate.

 

All though it was interesting to see Kerry finally adress his religion. He has basically been mum on it all along. Finally he piped up last night with the bible verse about faith being dead if it isn't accompanied by works. It was interesting that he left out the parts about the world being able to see God in him, and following the teachings of the church.

[Wong & Owens]

Was this post penned in the "spin" room?  You bring up some very valid points about Bush's performance, although I wouldn't say that he skirted more questions than Kerry.  The one question I was impressed by Bush that I wish would have been aimed at Kerry, was the flu vaccine question.  I refuse to believe that either candidate was prepared for this question and opened the door for a blatant question avoidance.  Bush stepped up though, I liked the fact that he actually knew what the situation was and gave a very blunt answer.  Even after hearing Bush's answer, Kerry completely avoided the question and seemed dumbfounded that the issue was even being discussed. 

 

I really don't give two s***s about the situation with the flu vaccine but their responses told me a lot.  Bush, while being groomed for the campaign trail, still is aware and understands issues that fall well outside of that campaign grind.

"The president erred in answering a question about the flu vaccine shortage. He said that a "company out of England" produced contaminated vaccine and that "we took the right action and didn't allow contaminated medicine into" the U.S.

 

In fact, the company is based in California, although its manufacturing plant is in Liverpool, England. And it was British authorities who shut down the manufacturing plant."

[hammerhead johnson]

I know hardly anything about politics, but I have been watching these debates. I can't call this one a victory for either side. Bush got slaughtered on the health care issue...I know that much. He conceded that our health care system is f***ed up right off the bat when he was like "Well I sure as hell hope it's not the administration's fault!".

 

That's comedy.

[israel4ever]

"The president erred in answering a question about the flu vaccine shortage. He said that a "company out of England" produced contaminated vaccine and that "we took the right action and didn't allow contaminated medicine into" the U.S.

 

In fact, the company is based in California, although its manufacturing plant is in Liverpool, England. And it was British authorities who shut down the manufacturing plant."

For all Bush "knows" California might be in England.

 

[easyw]

I don't know who won, but I know who lost - America....

 

Evil vs the Lesser of Two Evils, Tweedledumb vs Tweedledumber...

 

The 2-party system is un-American.

 

Vote Socialist!

[israel4ever]

The thing that sucks is that in actuality, any 3rd party vote = a vote for Bush.

[southsider2k5]

The thing that sucks is that in actuality, any 3rd party vote = a vote for Bush.

Depends on what state you are in. Its different in places like IL or CA, vs places like TX that lean the other way.

[israel4ever]

IMHO, a vote for Nader, for example, is an anti-Bush vote. But, if you vote for Nader, who cannot possibly win, you are taking that anti-Bush vote away from Kerry.

[southsider2k5]

IMHO, a vote for Nader, for example, is an anti-Bush vote. But, if you vote for Nader, who cannot possibly win, you are taking that anti-Bush vote away from Kerry.

But if it is a state where Kerry is an automatic winner like California, it hurts Bush more (because Bush cannot possibly win CA).

[WilliamTell]

Yeah if you hate both Bush and Kerry, might as well vote for Nader.

[CanOfCorn]

I'm gonna have to go Kerry, but by just a little. There is always mudslinging at these things, but Bush came across, to me, like he thought he was behind. He didn't have the swagger of an incumbent. His (always) annoying smirks were directed right toward Kerry or toward the camera overemphasizing the fact that he thought the things Kerry was saying were wrong. Whereas, Kerry just wrote down his notes and smiled to himself.

 

It just looked to me like Bush thought he was the underdog, which is not the case. Granted, I'm a democrat, but I want my president, who is running for re-election, democrat or republican, to have that "My name is Andrew Shepard, and I AM the President" swagger.

[hammerhead johnson]

George's (always) annoying smirks were directed right toward Kerry or toward the camera overemphasizing the fact that he thought the things Kerry was saying were wrong.

Whenever Bush put on that cheesy grin, it meant that he was getting redy to pull the "flip-flopper" card.

 

Pure comedy.

[KipWellsFan]

The thing that sucks is that in actuality, any 3rd party vote = a vote for Bush.

You can't say that, what about conservatives who are fet up with Bush so they vote Green or Liberitarian.

[Queen Prawn]

Bush had an excellent night last night.  he finally had some facts and figures to back up his contentions against John Kerry's plans.  Instead of just relying on cute sound bytes, he actually had some solid stuff to back up his contentions. 

 

Bush finally won a debate. 

When he did give an answer (instead of swerving around the question), most of them were skewed or flat out incorrect. Bush, in no way, won the debate.

[southsider2k5]

When he did give an answer (instead of swerving around the question), most of them were skewed or flat out incorrect.  Bush, in no way, won the debate.

They both did that. John Kerry has passed off his 1.6 million lost jobs so many times he thinks it is fact. Actually that number is about 585,000. To say that only Bush did it is inaccurate.

[Texsox]

If watching these two doesn't give hope to every boy in America that they could grow up to be President, I don't know what will.

[Texsox]

http://www.forbes.com/2003/02/14/cx_da_0214pres.html

 

Wealth and US Presidents. Bush in Top 10.

[mmmmmbeeer]

"The president erred in answering a question about the flu vaccine shortage. He said that a "company out of England" produced contaminated vaccine and that "we took the right action and didn't allow contaminated medicine into" the U.S.

 

In fact, the company is based in California, although its manufacturing plant is in Liverpool, England. And it was British authorities who shut down the manufacturing plant."

So where were the vaccinations contaminated? Sounds to me like the answer is England. So I don't know how the president was incorrect.

[LowerCaseRepublican]

Bush really pissed me off when he started babbling about NCLB.

 

Looking to be a prospective high school teacher, I've had a lot of time in different schools for projects etc., and every school I talk to -- they hate NCLB.

 

Yes, there was an increase in the amount of money spent on education but the part that Bush fails to see -- when he said "only a liberal senator from Massachusetts would say an increase is a failure -- well I'm saying it too George. The fact remains that the NCLB is underfunded. Also, the amount of Pell grants have decreased, not increased.

 

And on terrorism, Bush has slashed the requested FBI budge by 2/3. I also loved the "Kerry voted against the Homeland Security Bill" without mentioning that it raped civil benefits away from workers which is why many people voted against it.

 

I wish Cobb and Badnarik got in to tool these two dumbasses. Perot said it best about the issues in, I believe it was the 1992 debate, "Do you want me to fix it or soundbyte it?"

[israel4ever]

You can't say that, what about conservatives who are fet up with Bush so they vote Green or Liberitarian.

Since the Green or Libertarian parties cannot win, they are still hurting Kerry by voting for them.