Texsox Posted December 5, 2004 Share Posted December 5, 2004 Since so many people here wouldn't want Maggs after the contract b.s. and not accepting the Sox offer, does that mean you wouldn't want a free agent player coming to the Sox that did that to his team? Y'all would turn down Beltran after he didn't accept theRoyals or Astros offers? Greedy bastard Hang a sign outside KW office, we only want free agents who were not offered contracts by their teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelasDaddy0427 Posted December 5, 2004 Share Posted December 5, 2004 Since so many people here wouldn't want Maggs after the contract b.s. and not accepting the Sox offer, does that mean you wouldn't want a free agent player coming to the Sox that did that to his team? Y'all would turn down Beltran after he didn't accept theRoyals or Astros offers? Greedy bastard Hang a sign outside KW office, we only want free agents who were not offered contracts by their teams. Tex again your totally missing the point which is rare for you because your one of the smartest people on Soxtalk. He lied. He is having secret surguries. If not for the injury I would be the first in line wanting to give Maggs 14-15 Mil a year. The problem is that he lied to this organization. He refuses to let us see his medical records which means he's hiding something. It's the lies not the money people are objecting to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted December 5, 2004 Author Share Posted December 5, 2004 Tex again your totally missing the point which is rare for you because your one of the smartest people on Soxtalk. He lied. He is having secret surguries. If not for the injury I would be the first in line wanting to give Maggs 14-15 Mil a year. The problem is that he lied to this organization. He refuses to let us see his medical records which means he's hiding something. It's the lies not the money people are objecting to. Not very secretive since so many people seem to know his exact medical condition. Remember, the team is also facing a PR battle. Losing their best player, and getting zero in return, is not something that helps sell tickets. I can respect the fact that many people prefer to accept whatever the club is telling them, I am not that trusting. I haven't been since the White Flag days. The club has a terrible track record of dealing with Boras and has stated they will not negotiate with him. So they cut themselves off from many top players. Is that to our advantage? How excited are you about profits vs. World Series wins? When they publish the standings based on profits, not wins and loses, I'll care more. If the situation was reversed, and we were buying Maggs, instead of selling, we wouldn't worry too much about what he did and didn't tell KW. Remember this is the same city that embraced Rodman after all the crap he pulled in a Piston's uniform. Until Maggs is an unrestricted free agent, nobody will really know what his medical condition is. Of course with all the Doctors we have here, speculation is probably right. He has rejected the Sox offers and his taking the path he feels is best for himself and his family. He didn't owe us anything beyond the contract he signed. The Club won the PR battle. Sox fans are screaming good riddance to our best player. Gotta love that if you're the club, too bad it doesn't move us up in the standings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted December 5, 2004 Share Posted December 5, 2004 Not very secretive since so many people seem to know his exact medical condition. Remember, the team is also facing a PR battle. Losing their best player, and getting zero in return, is not something that helps sell tickets. I can respect the fact that many people prefer to accept whatever the club is telling them, I am not that trusting. I haven't been since the White Flag days. The club has a terrible track record of dealing with Boras and has stated they will not negotiate with him. So they cut themselves off from many top players. Is that to our advantage? How excited are you about profits vs. World Series wins? When they publish the standings based on profits, not wins and loses, I'll care more. If the situation was reversed, and we were buying Maggs, instead of selling, we wouldn't worry too much about what he did and didn't tell KW. Remember this is the same city that embraced Rodman after all the crap he pulled in a Piston's uniform. Until Maggs is an unrestricted free agent, nobody will really know what his medical condition is. Of course with all the Doctors we have here, speculation is probably right. He has rejected the Sox offers and his taking the path he feels is best for himself and his family. He didn't owe us anything beyond the contract he signed. The Club won the PR battle. Sox fans are screaming good riddance to our best player. Gotta love that if you're the club, too bad it doesn't move us up in the standings. I don't know about this -- I think if the club were really more optimistic about his knee, they may not try to sign him (maybe b/c of Boras), but they wouldn't downtalk his health either. Then you can offer arbitration and get 2 very high picks out of the deal. I think they'd risk the pr hit for the picks, b/c most Sox fans don't think Maggs is worth as much as he's gunning for (Tejada/Vlad money), even w/o the injury. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greasywheels121 Posted December 5, 2004 Share Posted December 5, 2004 We'll just have to see how Maggs does in his new situation, and then we can determine who won this little battle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Socks Posted December 5, 2004 Share Posted December 5, 2004 If I were running the team, I would offer Maggs arbitration and take those picks. Chances are, he will sign elsewhere anyway, and even if he takes the arbitration route, then we either have an overpaid rightfielder for another year, or he fully recovers and earns his money. To walk away with nothing would be the dumbest thing the organization did since it traded Jeremy Reed and his minimum major league contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubKilla Posted December 5, 2004 Share Posted December 5, 2004 Remember, the team is also facing a PR battle. Losing their best player, and getting zero in return, is not something that helps sell tickets. I can respect the fact that many people prefer to accept whatever the club is telling them, I am not that trusting. I haven't been since the White Flag days. The club has a terrible track record of dealing with Boras and has stated they will not negotiate with him. So they cut themselves off from many top players. Is that to our advantage? How excited are you about profits vs. World Series wins? When they publish the standings based on profits, not wins and loses, I'll care more. The Club won the PR battle. Sox fans are screaming good riddance to our best player. Gotta love that if you're the club, too bad it doesn't move us up in the standings. TexSox. We need more truth in posting..... such as what you just posted above. Beautiful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 5, 2004 Share Posted December 5, 2004 If I were running the team, I would offer Maggs arbitration and take those picks. Chances are, he will sign elsewhere anyway, and even if he takes the arbitration route, then we either have an overpaid rightfielder for another year, or he fully recovers and earns his money. To walk away with nothing would be the dumbest thing the organization did since it traded Jeremy Reed and his minimum major league contract. If Beltan is being offered $13 million a year, what do you think Maggs will get maybe $8 or $9 mil tops? There is no way he would be stupid enough to turn down arbit at that price, and we would be stuck for at least $11.2 million for player that might never be the same again. It would mean at least we wouldn't be able to sign anyone else, if not get rid of players to fill other holes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubKilla Posted December 5, 2004 Share Posted December 5, 2004 If Beltan is being offered $13 million a year, what do you think Maggs will get maybe $8 or $9 mil tops? I don't think Beltran is going to accept the $13 million offer. Just a hunch. Someone (NYY, ANA) will pay him more than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 5, 2004 Share Posted December 5, 2004 I don't think Beltran is going to accept the $13 million offer. Just a hunch. Someone (NYY, ANA) will pay him more than that. I really doubt the offers are going to explode all of the sudden. Even if he goes from 13-15 million a season, what does that leave the market for Maggs? 1 years $10 million TOPS? Would you pay that for a guy who might never be able to play RF again? Seriously? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 5, 2004 Share Posted December 5, 2004 White Sox doctors examined Magglio several times. They couldn't figure out what was wrong with him, and if Boras is being straight and Maggs just had another small meniscus tear, then they misdiagnosed him at least 3 times. Texsox is absolutely right. Magglio is just doing what all these other players people are salivating over did. Its backfired, and cost him money. There were no secret surgeries. The White Sox knew of the surgery in Vienna. They didn't release it to the public until some reporter broke the story. BTW, it was already determined he was out for the season before said surgery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobDylan Posted December 5, 2004 Share Posted December 5, 2004 The club has a terrible track record of dealing with Boras and has stated they will not negotiate with him. So they cut themselves off from many top players. Is that to our advantage? How excited are you about profits vs. World Series wins? When they publish the standings based on profits, not wins and loses, I'll care more. Reinsdorf stepped in and put an end to Williams comments. The White Sox will negotiate with Boras if there is a fit. As far as profit versus wins, the Chicago White Sox are a business and the core reason most sports owners invest in a team is to make money, and the way to profit is to spend the least money while making the most. While I get pissed at this idea, I can't blame Reinsdorf and his shareholders for wanting to make a profit out of their investment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted December 5, 2004 Share Posted December 5, 2004 I don't feel ill will toward Maggs for one reason. Yes, it appears Maggs made a mistake by opting to go the free agency route and turning down the Sox offer. But let's keep in mind that about one year ago, the White Sox were very publicly trying to get rid of Maggs. I have no doubt he that doubted how much he was wanted in Chicago. Those seeds were planted and even though the Sox offered him a contract, I'm sure at that point he had made up his mind to explore other options, options where he may be wanted more. I know trades are part of baseball, but when you are all but traded in a very public manner, it has to hurt. I think there were similar circumstances with Nomar, which is why I discount the talk of Nomar being a "problem". All that said, I can't see any way the Sox offer Maggs arbitration. Maggs would likely get at least $12-$13 million in arbitration, if not more. This team cannot afford that if they want to make other changes. Maggs is a great player, but is not worth 20% or more of a team's payroll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLAK Posted December 5, 2004 Share Posted December 5, 2004 I don't feel ill will toward Maggs for one reason. Yes, it appears Maggs made a mistake by opting to go the free agency route and turning down the Sox offer. But let's keep in mind that about one year ago, the White Sox were very publicly trying to get rid of Maggs. I have no doubt he that doubted how much he was wanted in Chicago. Those seeds were planted and even though the Sox offered him a contract, I'm sure at that point he had made up his mind to explore other options, options where he may be wanted more. I know trades are part of baseball, but when you are all but traded in a very public manner, it has to hurt. I think there were similar circumstances with Nomar, which is why I discount the talk of Nomar being a "problem". All that said, I can't see any way the Sox offer Maggs arbitration. Maggs would likely get at least $12-$13 million in arbitration, if not more. This team cannot afford that if they want to make other changes. Maggs is a great player, but is not worth 20% or more of a team's payroll. Thats pretty much what it comes down to. I'd add that I think Boras is manipulating the injury and hiding him from the Sox until after the declare date to make SURE he isn't offered arbitration. He will be worth marginally more coming without draft picks and Boras takes every edge he can find. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted December 6, 2004 Author Share Posted December 6, 2004 Thats pretty much what it comes down to. I'd add that I think Boras is manipulating the injury and hiding him from the Sox until after the declare date to make SURE he isn't offered arbitration. He will be worth marginally more coming without draft picks and Boras takes every edge he can find. Maggs has every incentive to appear as healthy as possible, the team has every incentive to make Maggs look like the worse player and the most unhealthy player in MLB. Once again to fill a couple holes we open a bigger one. It seems to me creating one large pot hole to fill two smaller ones is not paving our way to a playoff spot, let's not even think about a WS win. In the end, we wind up with a flock of Davis' and Harris' and something that resembles more Maplewood Avenue than the autobahn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted December 6, 2004 Share Posted December 6, 2004 Maggs has every incentive to appear as healthy as possible Yeah, but not until after the arbitration deadline. TLAK's right, if Maggs were solidly healthy, Boras might well hide it at this point. But I still have to trust the Sox on this -- the medical questions are just too important, and they have a LOT more info on Magglio's condition than any of us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted December 6, 2004 Share Posted December 6, 2004 The thing I don't understand about Boras' approach with Ordonez is that he is effectively locking the White Sox out as a possible player in the Ordonez equation. By letting the Sox examine him, they might get back in the game. They did, after all, affer him a pretty decent contract last summer. In fact, I doubt Ordonez gets another offer that is equal or greater than what the Sox offered. So what advantage, other than the lack of an arbitration offer from the Sox, does Boras see to eliminating a possible bidder? Having said that, it makes me believe there is more to Magglio's injury than Boras is letting out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted December 6, 2004 Share Posted December 6, 2004 The thing I don't understand about Boras' approach with Ordonez is that he is effectively locking the White Sox out as a possible player in the Ordonez equation. By letting the Sox examine him, they might get back in the game. They did, after all, affer him a pretty decent contract last summer. In fact, I doubt Ordonez gets another offer that is equal or greater than what the Sox offered. So what advantage, other than the lack of an arbitration offer from the Sox, does Boras see to eliminating a possible bidder? Having said that, it makes me believe there is more to Magglio's injury than Boras is letting out. I think Boras knows or at least feels, that the Sox are not serious players for Maggs, healthy or not. And I agree. Even if healthy, I think it is a mistake paying Maggs 20+% of the team's total payroll, which they would be doing if they got into the figures he would be getting if he were healthy. I like Maggs and think he is a very good player, but I do not think he is a carry-a-team-on-his-back-make-$15 million-a-year kind of player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted December 6, 2004 Author Share Posted December 6, 2004 The thing I don't understand about Boras' approach with Ordonez is that he is effectively locking the White Sox out as a possible player in the Ordonez equation. By letting the Sox examine him, they might get back in the game. They did, after all, affer him a pretty decent contract last summer. In fact, I doubt Ordonez gets another offer that is equal or greater than what the Sox offered. So what advantage, other than the lack of an arbitration offer from the Sox, does Boras see to eliminating a possible bidder? Having said that, it makes me believe there is more to Magglio's injury than Boras is letting out. Perhaps Maggs never intended to sign a contract with the Sox. Healthy or not. Maximum salary or not. I think Maggs could be pissed that the team shopped him during the last off season and decided to leave then, but for PR reasons isn't making that declaration (smart guy). Signing with Boras is not something you would do if you wanted a decent chance of re-signing with the Sox. There are other top notch agents that he could have signed with. He saw what hell A-Rod went through when he wanted out of Texas, why make that same mistake? If that scenario is accurate, he wants out of Chicago, I wonder how many people that think he should sign with Chicago for less, would respect him for going somewhere else for less, if that's what he wants? No matter what the scenario, I do not see him improving on the last Sox offer. Financially he will be signing a worse contract than he could have had before the injury. If all he wanted was to maximize his paycheck, he lost that gamble. If he wants out of Chicago, he will get that desire. Do we really think that any team is going to sign him without a workout and full disclosure of his medical records? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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