Ozzie Guillen

[lostfan]

Ozzie used his gut in '05 a lot and did things like leave his starters in. Not exactly outside the box but that was something he deserved credit for at the time.

[Balta1701]

Ozzie used his gut in '05 a lot and did things like leave his starters in. Not exactly outside the box but that was something he deserved credit for at the time.

There's also a skill in knowing that a guy has gone 5+ innings, is in line for the win, and is in trouble. G was demolished on Wednesday while Ozzie left him hanging in the 6th.

[Kyyle23]

Nice response, I'll give you that. You are saying Ozzie blasted the clients and an employer could expect to be upset that an employee cussed out the client base, in this case the fan base.

I can see your point on that.

I guess if you look at it that way, yes that could be a fireable offense. I'm too tired now to come up with a counter argument, but I'll think on it. I could simply say sports are different. I do like the fact he doesn't buttkiss up to Kenny. He does a bit to Jerry, but more than anything shows elderly jerry respect.

 

I would like to respond to the poster who said Oz should think outside the box.

Was it thinking outside the box in '05 letting all those guys throw complete games? Every other manager would have brought in the closer, maybe even set up men, then closers. Oz let them finish the game and we benefited that postseason by it and won it all.

Was that thinking outside the box? Damn right. No other manager would ever have let guys all throw complete games like that. We got a WS title as a result partly of his thinking outside the box.

And don't say I'm living in '05. I reallize you all think that anyway. My point I feel is valid example of him thinking outside the box and it's the first one that came to my mind.

 

 

You could say that, yet you are the one that compared Ozzies job to the real world

[LittleHurt05]

I would like to respond to the poster who said Oz should think outside the box.

Was it thinking outside the box in '05 letting all those guys throw complete games? Every other manager would have brought in the closer, maybe even set up men, then closers. Oz let them finish the game and we benefited that postseason by it and won it all.

Was that thinking outside the box? Damn right. No other manager would ever have let guys all throw complete games like that. We got a WS title as a result partly of his thinking outside the box.

And don't say I'm living in '05. I reallize you all think that anyway. My point I feel is valid example of him thinking outside the box and it's the first one that came to my mind.

 

Buehrle had thrown 91 pitches thru 8 innings in a 1-1 game. The other three guys had at least 3-run leads and had only thrown 100-105 pitches. I'm sure there are many other managers that would have kept them in the game (unless they had Mo Rivera in the bullpen). I'll give Ozzie credit for going with his gut and it worked out to be the right move, but don't act like he made some crazy decision that no one else in baseball would have made.

[greg775]

Ozzie used his gut in '05 a lot and did things like leave his starters in. Not exactly outside the box but that was something he deserved credit for at the time.

 

 

Buehrle had thrown 91 pitches thru 8 innings in a 1-1 game. The other three guys had at least 3-run leads and had only thrown 100-105 pitches. I'm sure there are many other managers that would have kept them in the game (unless they had Mo Rivera in the bullpen). I'll give Ozzie credit for going with his gut and it worked out to be the right move, but don't act like he made some crazy decision that no one else in baseball would have made.

 

I will stand by saying very few if any other managers would have left the starters in as he was doing. It was his ass on the line and he rewarded us with a WS crown partly because of his managing. Players deserve most of the credit as they do in any victory, but I beg to differ. His actions were definitely outside the box.

 

As far as Ozzie freaking out on the fans telling them to f*** off if they don't like not having Thome around, I have mixed emotions. It's definitely a fireable offense in today's workplace, dissing the customers. Personally though I love that he doesn't kiss anybody's ass, including fans, so I am not offended by it.

But in a debate, I lose this argument because his post about it was pretty damn good. So I guess he owned me.

That doesn't mean I can't win the next argument.

Edited August 20, 2010 by greg775

[elrockinMT]

As soon as I win the Powerball Lottery I am buying the Sox and then I will make the decisions. You all just wait!

[BigSqwert]

As soon as I win the Powerball Lottery I am buying the Sox and then I will make the decisions. You all just wait!

Edited August 20, 2010 by BigSqwert

[MattZakrowski]

I like that you had a picture of Ozzie laughing ready to go in a minute. Great hustle.

[BigSqwert]

I like that you had a picture of Ozzie laughing ready to go in a minute. Great hustle.

I'm always cinched up and hunkered down.

[stretchstretch]

God we are starting to sound like Bears fans. There's always something clearly better out there.

 

No manager will ever be good enough. They should just run the team based on fan voting before every game, I think we'd be set then.

 

No man will ever be good enough for my Soxies!!!

[Balta1701]

As soon as I win the Powerball Lottery I am buying the Sox and then I will make the decisions. You all just wait!

You're not going to be buying an MLB team with one Powerball win.

[lostfan]

You're not going to be buying an MLB team with one Powerball win.

I'm going to win it too

[fathom]

When oh when will he learn that Jenks is absolutely worthless in non-save situations? I'm so sick of Jenks losing us games because of his inability to step up in these situations. Good riddance in 2 months Bobby.

[greg775]

Mr. Sergio Santos lost us that game. Bob Jenks just made it a formality.

[lostfan]

That was also Sale's baserunner isn't it?

 

Anyway if Bobby is not closing, and he can't be used in situations like that, he is basically Scott Linebrink and about useless. He has to be used for something.

[BigSqwert]

Mr. Sergio Santos and Jeff Cox lost us that game. Bob Jenks just made it a formality.

 

[southsider2k5]

Eh, you can hardly blame Cox for taking a shot there. He has one of his fastest baserunners out there, plus he knows where we are in the game, and that this could potentially end it. Its also not like we leave baserunners on base all of the time either.

 

Because of the circumstances of the doubleheader, you really can't judge the individual plays like you normally would. For example, in a normal game, Santos most likely doesn't pitch at that stage of the game. Heck, most likely, Guillen doesn't allow Garcia to go as long as he did. At that point he was trying to save guys in a game he had a four run lead in, so that he could have his top guys for the night game.

[Princess Dye]

Jenks wasnt hit hard. Wasnt there a little dribbler that (in a fair world) wouldve gotten him out of the inning (and Sale off the hook)

Edited August 22, 2010 by Princess Dye

[Kyyle23]

Eh, you can hardly blame Cox for taking a shot there. He has one of his fastest baserunners out there, plus he knows where we are in the game, and that this could potentially end it. Its also not like we leave baserunners on base all of the time either.

 

Because of the circumstances of the doubleheader, you really can't judge the individual plays like you normally would. For example, in a normal game, Santos most likely doesn't pitch at that stage of the game. Heck, most likely, Guillen doesn't allow Garcia to go as long as he did. At that point he was trying to save guys in a game he had a four run lead in, so that he could have his top guys for the night game.

 

 

I disagree because Lillibridge almost came to a complete stop at second base. It doesnt matter if he is fast, the ball didnt clear the gap, it was cut off. You have to trust that your next hitter can get him in on a sac fly or single and possibly put more runs on the board in that one out situation, instead we have 2 outs and the next batter K's. IMO it was a horrible decision by Cox after a horrible baserunning gaffe by Lillibridge.

 

 

However, Jenks still gets blame for the loss. He served that single up on a platter. His job is to get outs and he didnt do his job.

[chw42]

I like that you had a picture of Ozzie laughing ready to go in a minute. Great hustle.

 

Now that's what I call being a grinder.

[Chet Lemon]

Maybe my thinking is too short-term, but I would be in favor of a managerial change if they miss out on the playoffs. Being outfoxed again by Gardenhire in the second half would be the last straw. If you can't be the Twins in the post-Santana era, sans Nathan and Morneau, then imagine next season when the Twins boost payroll and add quality vets. Conversely, if the Sox make the playoffs, I wouldn't be disappointed if Oz were offered a contract extension.

[whitesoxfan101]

A and C. Can't fire a guy who makes the playoffs, but you can fire a loudmouth manager with loudmouth kids who is CLUELESS about how offense in the American League (and more specifically, our ballpark) works after a disappointing swoon the last month and a half or so of the season, which is the direction we seem to be going in. Considering KW isn't even allowed to fire Ozzie though, I doubt anything happens.

[iamshack]

Eh, you can hardly blame Cox for taking a shot there. He has one of his fastest baserunners out there, plus he knows where we are in the game, and that this could potentially end it. Its also not like we leave baserunners on base all of the time either.

 

Because of the circumstances of the doubleheader, you really can't judge the individual plays like you normally would. For example, in a normal game, Santos most likely doesn't pitch at that stage of the game. Heck, most likely, Guillen doesn't allow Garcia to go as long as he did. At that point he was trying to save guys in a game he had a four run lead in, so that he could have his top guys for the night game.

I was watching the games yesterday and I thought Ozzie did a pretty solid job with the way he managed the pitching staff, all things considered. Tough to blame him with what happened in the first game, considering Freddy was cruising and only needed one more out. If we yank him after the first single there, and all hell breaks loose, Ozzie gets blamed for pulling Freddy early. Maybe he should have pulled him after the second single. I guess that is the biggest fault you can place on him there. Then after the third single, he brings in Santos, who had only given up I believe 1 home run all season to that point.

 

The Cox-Lillibridge gaffe should be blamed equally on the two of them. Lillibridge must not have picked up the ball well as he was running on the play, and then Cox didn't take that into account and hold him up. I normally like forcing the other team to throw you out in that situation, but given that we needed not only a bad throw, but basically a throw to get past the catcher in order to score, with only 1 out mind you, I wish he would have held him up.

 

Jenks seems to always give up those swinging bunts. It's as if he pitches a batter almost too good to record the out, and then he lets down and gives up the solid hit thereafter almost every time.

 

All in all though, Ozzie is dealing with a bullpen of while almost every player has been ineffective lately. Additionally, he's got Thornton out with forearm soreness, Jenks with a gimpy back, Putz with a recent knee injury, Sale who was a draft pick this year, and Santos, who is really only in his second year of pitching professional ball, and then of course, Linebrink, who has been better of late but still not particularly great. Then he has to plan on pitching his long man, Pena, in the second game, not really knowing at all what you're going to get out of him.

 

So I don't really know who made the decision to start the game Friday night, but whomever it was, screwed us. Then the reluctance to move Danks up to the second game and pitch Jackson in Sunday afternoon's game is a bit of head-scratcher to me. But all in all, I thought Ozzie did a pretty nice job, all things considering, but our bullpen just continued to let us down, outside of the solid start Pena gave us in game 2.

Edited August 22, 2010 by iamshack

[BigSqwert]

Sweet Lou would look awesome as our skipper next season.

[fathom]

"Ozzieball" is not working, plain and simple. This series has been a clinic for giving up way too many outs, and having to then rely on 2 out hits to score runs.