Soxbadger Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 QUOTE (Jake @ Jul 12, 2012 -> 03:58 PM) Derrick gets even more dominant, Prior to the ACL tear I think most Bulls fans were more willing to be patient and conservative because you felt Rose would keep getting better. After the injury I just have to be more realistic. It would be amazing if Rose gets back to 100%, let alone gets better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 QUOTE (RZZZA @ Jul 12, 2012 -> 04:00 PM) If you pin your hopes on trading for a superstar, that window hasn't closed for us yet. Our most attractive trade pieces (Deng and Noah) are still on bargain contracts and performing at a level that makes them appealing, and will do so for the foreseeable future. Lets not get crazy here, both of these players are on big contracts and both of these players are also very injury prone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHarris1 Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Noah I would be fine qualifying as a bargain, especially after seeing what Brook Lopez got. Deng, however, is certainly not a bargain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RZZZA Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Lets not get crazy here, both of these players are on big contracts and both of these players are also very injury prone More injury prone than Brook Lopez? That dude just got a 61 million dollar contract in this market. I mean lets not kid OURSELVES here, players get overpaid on a routine basis. Deng and Noah are good enough players where they would likely receive even bigger contracts than they're signed for now out there. if these contracts are so bad, why does every team want these guys? Nobody is banging down our door asking us for Carlos Boozer. Deng, Noah, Taj, Asik...these are the guys that interest teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Its unclear how much interest there is in Deng. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 QUOTE (RZZZA @ Jul 12, 2012 -> 04:05 PM) More injury prone than Brook Lopez? That dude just got a 61 million dollar contract in this market. I mean lets not kid OURSELVES here, players get overpaid on a routine basis. Deng and Noah are good enough players where they would likely receive even bigger contracts than they're signed for now out there. if these contracts are so bad, why does every team want these guys? Nobody is banging down our door asking us for Carlos Boozer. Deng, Noah, Taj, Asik...these are the guys that interest teams. Yes. Before the past two seasons, everyone on this thread was ready to strap Deng to the next train out of town. Noah has certainly spent plenty of time on the injured list himself, specifically 2 of the past 3 seasons going into the playoffs And one player getting a bad contract doesnt mean the other contracts automatically become bargains Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RZZZA Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Well, I think they are bargains, and regardless if you don't think Deng and Noah are our trade pieces then you must agree we don't have any trade pieces at all, so trading for a superstar becomes moot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoomSlowik Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 (edited) Noah is probably a slight bargain based on market conditions for a center. Deng, absolutely not. AT BEST he's paid fairly, probably leaning more towards overpaid (especially if his wrist continues to be an issue). Edited July 12, 2012 by ZoomSlowik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 That's the thing. I don't think GMs trading stars really want fair value back in terms of talent. They want cap space and lottery picks. So I don't think Deng/Noah/Etc are very valuable yet in trading for a superstar. It's hard to trade players in their second contract for upgrades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoomSlowik Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 12, 2012 -> 04:17 PM) That's the thing. I don't think GMs trading stars really want fair value back in terms of talent. They want cap space and lottery picks. So I don't think Deng/Noah/Etc are very valuable yet in trading for a superstar. It's hard to trade players in their second contract for upgrades. While this is true, there are certainly worse players you could be forced to swallow in order to match salaries in a trade (see Brook Lopez). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RZZZA Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 (edited) Let's see if Luol Deng is overpaid. I've compiled a list of the top 8 SFs in the league, of which Deng is one. We're going to add up the numbers of these contracts on a per year basis and divide by 8 to determine the average. Lebron James: $17.5 Kevin Durant: $16.6 Carmelo Anthony: $19.4 Paul Pierce: $16.8 Danny Granger: $13 Rudy Gay: $16.5 Andre Iguadala: $14.7 Luol Deng: $13.3 Point is, Deng is on the low end of this spectrum. His contract is not overpriced, if anything it's under priced. Edited July 12, 2012 by RZZZA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Meh, those Gay/Iguadala contracts are awful. The 6ers want nothing more than to be rid of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RZZZA Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 You have to account for awful contracts if you want to judge who is over or under paid. If everyone handed out fair contracts, there would be no bad contracts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHarris1 Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Well, if you consider Iguodala's contract AWFUL, then you would certainly classify Deng's as BAD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoomSlowik Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (RZZZA @ Jul 12, 2012 -> 04:21 PM) Let's see if Luol Deng is overpaid. I've compiled a list of the top 8 SFs in the league, of which Deng is one. We're going to add up the numbers of these contracts on a per year basis and divide by 8 to determine the average. Lebron James: $17.5 Kevin Durant: $16.6 Carmelo Anthony: $19.4 Paul Pierce: $16.8 Danny Granger: $13 Rudy Gay: $16.5 Andre Iguadala: $14.7 Luol Deng: $13.3 Point is, Deng is on the low end of this spectrum. His contract is not overpriced, if anything it's under priced. Why would you take the top-8? The salaries of those top-4 aren't remotely relevant since they're all quite a bit better than Deng. You need to start at the Granger/Gay/Iggy area (who most would still probably consider better than him) and go down to get a relevant range. It's also an extremely arbitrary list since Deng was actually 22nd at the position in PER this year and 14th in PER last year. You really need to include guys like Gallinari, Wallace, Marion and Dudley since they all finished with a higher PER each of the last two years. Guys like Batum and Wright are fairly relevant too since they're in basically the same tier. Of course the problem with that is that when I include all of them, Deng's salary looks a fair amount higher. While he's decidely better than a couple of them, he's not better than all of them. At $10 mil or less, you could legitimately argue he might be a bargain. In the $13-$14 mil range, it's a stretch. It's not like he's posting a 20 PER at that price, he's hovering between 14 and 16 the last three years. Edited July 12, 2012 by ZoomSlowik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RZZZA Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 I took the top 8 because Deng is a top 8 SF. I meant to take the top 10 originally but...I didn't know who to list after the number 8 mark. There's a bunch of guys you could put there and make an argument for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 What are the odds the Magic would consider Noah, Korver, the Bobcats pick, and a couple future 1st round picks for Dwight? I think that's a better package than what NJ was offering and if Dwight is unwilling to sign an extension, how much can the Magic really expect to get for him? They'd be getting one of the better centers in the league (with ties to Florida), a $5 million expiring contract, one extremely high upside pick, and a couple fluff picks. If necessary, they could move Noah in a separate deal for picks and/or young players. I think there's some logic to it for them. If I'm GarPax, I'd be willing to trade Noah and the Bobcats pick and risk losing Dwight for nothing. Worst case scenario is we gain some future cap space. Best case scenario he enjoys his time here and resigns with us. The middle ground is we control his bird rights and assist in a sign and trade that recoups some value. No matter how it would play out with Dwight, we'd still be able to amnesty Boozer and allow Deng's contract to expire to clear addional cap space to go after a second star in two years. Plus we'd still have Mirotic, Gibson, and Asik under our control or would have received other valuable assets for them. I just don't see too much downside with such a deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Houston amnestied Luis Scola, which is excellent news for Orlando. They would now have the cap room to offer max deals to Howard and CP3 if they wanted to. A package of Kevin Martin, 2/3 1st rounders they just drafted, Toronto's protected 1st rounder, another lottery protected first from another team (can't remember who) and future 1st's from HOU should be good enough for both sides IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RZZZA Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Except Dwight has made no indication that he's willing to sign an extension in Houston. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 QUOTE (RZZZA @ Jul 13, 2012 -> 09:23 AM) Except Dwight has made no indication that he's willing to sign an extension in Houston. Yes, but if he doesn't get traded to Brooklyn, going to be very hard for him to sign there unless the team he's on is willing to do a sign and trade for Brook Lopez. I think if CP3 was willing to come over, he'd stay in Houston, but that's an IF at this stage. At least Houston can take back a bad contract now also with Scola's deal not in the cap, although it would probably affect them being able to offer 2 max deals potentially. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Its going to be interesting to see what Dwight wants once he realizes that Brooklyn is probably not ever going to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RZZZA Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 @WojYahooNBA: EuroCup MVP Patrick Beverley is working out for Chicago in mini-camp, a candidate to fill a Bulls guard spot off bench, source tells Y! "Patrick Beverley is working out for the Bulls during the camp but won't play summer league for them and could draw an offer next week." KC Johnson Patrick "Pat" Beverley, the Euroleague MVP. Many consider this kid to be the Derrick Rose of Euroleague basketball. He has a nasty crossover and is very explosive when he attacks the rim, also similar to his former teammate Dwayne Wade. These are a few of his pick and roll plays. Boy, it sure seems like Bulls are targeting with the idea of ballhandling, playmaking, youth and athleticism in mind. I'm so glad for this. There's a large athleticism gap between us and teams like the Heat or Thunder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 QUOTE (RZZZA @ Jul 12, 2012 -> 10:56 PM) Boy, it sure seems like Bulls are targeting with the idea of ballhandling, playmaking, youth and athleticism in mind. I'm so glad for this. There's a large athleticism gap between us and teams like the Heat or Thunder. Hard for me to get excited about a 6'1" 185 lb player that hasnt even sniffed the NBA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jul 13, 2012 -> 06:36 AM) Hard for me to get excited about a 6'1" 185 lb player that hasnt even sniffed the NBA. If he was that good, he wouldn't still be across the pond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 13, 2012 -> 09:07 AM) If he was that good, he wouldn't still be across the pond. To be fair though...even if he wasn't the greatest PG ever, Jeremy Lin did float around without a chance for some time, including being waived by the Rockets and Warrios. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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