Frank Thomas Is a Hall of Famer

[Paulstar]

Let's all laugh at this Facebook comment: "Jack Morris shouldve made it! He had the most wins in the 80s!"

He also had 169 complete games, three world series rings (1 times world series MVP), started three all-star games, was the undisputed ace on most of his teams, something like 500 consecutive starts without missing a turn into the rotation, all while spending the majority of his time pitching in a hitters paradise.

 

Maybe his ERA and WHIP are higher than you'd like, but I see no reason why that should be held against him because he did win and he was extremely clutch and you could always count on him for a big game. The guy was a winner. I don't understand why he shouldn't have been elected, but hopefully he'll make it with the Veterans Committee down the line.

 

However, this thread is about Frank and it is a special honor. I think the steroid era did negatively effect his performance to because he eventually went away from his opposite field approach that he had in his best years and I feel like he tried to pull the ball and hit more home runs when he had to compete with all these guys juicing up.

[Jose Abreu]

Let's all laugh at this Facebook comment: "Jack Morris shouldve made it! He had the most wins in the 80s!"

 

 

He also had 169 complete games, three world series rings (1 times world series MVP), started three all-star games, was the undisputed ace on most of his teams, something like 500 consecutive starts without missing a turn into the rotation, all while spending the majority of his time pitching in a hitters paradise.

 

Maybe his ERA and WHIP are higher than you'd like, but I see no reason why that should be held against him because he did win and he was extremely clutch and you could always count on him for a big game. The guy was a winner. I don't understand why he shouldn't have been elected, but hopefully he'll make it with the Veterans Committee down the line.

 

However, this thread is about Frank and it is a special honor. I think the steroid era did negatively effect his performance to because he eventually went away from his opposite field approach that he had in his best years and I feel like he tried to pull the ball and hit more home runs when he had to compete with all these guys juicing up.

I'm not saying that Morris should not have made it. My intention was that this person thinks that his win number is the deciding factor (rather than what you said). We all know a pitcher's win count means nothing.

[LittleHurt05]

amphetamines and andro do not belong in the same category as AAS

 

So some performance enhancing drugs are OK, just as long as they weren't too strong?

[Paulstar]

Scot Gregor ‏@scotgregor 8m

 

Frank Thomas says Jeff Nelson was toughest pitcher he ever faced.

Some of my favorite memories of Frank Thomas was staying up late and watching Thomas and the Sox take on the Mariners at the old Kingdome. It was a blast to see Thomas, Johnson, Griffey, ARod all on the same field.

[Baron]

He also had 169 complete games, three world series rings (1 times world series MVP), started three all-star games, was the undisputed ace on most of his teams, something like 500 consecutive starts without missing a turn into the rotation, all while spending the majority of his time pitching in a hitters paradise.

 

 

 

Thats all fine and dandy...he still shouldnt have made it and thankfully he didnt

Edited January 8, 2014 by Baron

[southsider2k5]

So some performance enhancing drugs are OK, just as long as they weren't too strong?

 

All you have to do is look at the offensive statistics in the 70's vs the late 90's through the late to see the difference.

[StrangeSox]

it's a shame that some idiots like Murray Chase still get their ballots while Dan Lebotard loses his

[LittleHurt05]

All you have to do is look at the offensive statistics in the 70's vs the late 90's through the late to see the difference.

 

So amphetamines and andro had zero effect on performance?

[southsider2k5]

So amphetamines and andro had zero effect on performance?

 

Again, all you have to do is look at the differences between eras to understand the difference in the game.

[Paulstar]

I'm not saying that Morris should not have made it. My intention was that this person thinks that his win number is the deciding factor (rather than what you said). We all know a pitcher's win count means nothing.

I gotcha. I do and don't agree with that though. I understand the flaws of the stat, but I also do believe that there are some players out there who just know how to win. I mean, if guy consistently gets 15+ wins a season, he's probably more good than lucky. But yeah, I do understand your point and W shouldn't be the sole basis for argument unless you are above that 300 number.

[ptatc]

So some performance enhancing drugs are OK, just as long as they weren't too strong?

When voting for the HOF, yes. Otherwise as I said nobody would go in. This is just my opinion, because andro really isn't a performance enhancer and amphetamines just helped you focus a little more.

[Baron]

I gotcha. I do and don't agree with that though. I understand the flaws of the stat, but I also do believe that there are some players out there who just know how to win. I mean, if guy consistently gets 15+ wins a season, he's probably more good than lucky. But yeah, I do understand your point and W shouldn't be the sole basis for argument unless you are above that 300 number.

 

If a guy has worse numbers than the number 2 pitchers behind him combined over his career what does that tell you?

[Paulstar]

So amphetamines and andro had zero effect on performance?

Players didn't use amphetamines to hit more home runs, players used them to so they could get enough energy to play their X game in a row after a long bus trip in the middle of the dog days of the hot summer. And amphetamines have been used in baseball since the early 1900's.

 

I'm not saying the usage was right or wrong, but I can overlook the use of amphetamines a whole lot more than I can the usage of steroids.

[southsider2k5]

Better question. Maddux in the HOF as a Brave or Cub... Go.

[southsider2k5]

If a guy has worse numbers than the number 2 pitchers behind him combined over his career what does that tell you?

 

I lived through the Jack Morris era, and I never remember thinking Hall of Fame pitcher. I think he makes the Hall of Really Good. He did a lot of really good things, but I never saw him as a dominant or top notch pitcher.

[SoxFan562004]

Better question. Maddux in the HOF as a Brave or Cub... Go.

I really don't think it's a question, it's Braves, and that's even me taking my Cubs dislike out of it. When he was back with Cubs they even did a poll question on a Cubs broadcast, and even that was lopsided to Braves.

[rangercal]

who could forget these lol

 

[Baron]

I lived through the Jack Morris era, and I never remember thinking Hall of Fame pitcher. I think he makes the Hall of Really Good. He did a lot of really good things, but I never saw him as a dominant or top notch pitcher.

 

I was really little when he was pitching so I never got to see him first hand.But the numbers plus that seems to be the testimony of plenty of people support why he shouldnt have been voted in. Hall of Very Good isnt a bad thing....but everytime I say that people act like I'm saying he is one of the worst players to play the game.

Edited January 8, 2014 by Baron

[rangercal]

Better question. Maddux in the HOF as a Brave or Cub... Go.

 

You might have a better argument of picking the Padres over the Cubs than the Cubs over the Braves. Kidding. But it's really not close. The cubs blew it and let him walk.

[Paulstar]

Better question. Maddux in the HOF as a Brave or Cub... Go.

I would have to think easily as a Brave. Spent his best seasons with them, won multiple cy youngs with them, and I think when a lot of people think of Maddux, they think of the 90's braves and the nasty rotation with him, Glavine, and Smoltz.

[southsider2k5]

I really little when he was pitching so I never got to see him first hand.But the numbers plus that seems to be the testimony of plenty of people support why he shouldnt have been voted in. Hall of Very Good isnt a bad thing....but everytime I say that people act like I'm saying he is one of the worst players to play the game.

 

It isn't an insult at all. But at the same time, all of the time he pitched, you can go back and name pitchers who were clearly better than Morris. You've got the Tom Seavers and Nolan Ryans in the first half of his career, and then you've got the Roger Clemens, plus guys like Maddux and Glavine in the latter half.

 

To my eye there is a very large difference between Jack Morris and any of those guys. To me, that is what make the preceding guys Hall of Famers, and not Jack Morris.

[Eminor3rd]

who could forget these lol

 

 

I had those, haha. It was the first pair of name brand shoes I was able to talk my parents into buying for me

[BlackSox13]

Congrats Big Hurt and thank you for the memories!

[Jose Abreu]

I'm gonna blow Frank's numbers out of the water.

[southsider2k5]

I'm gonna blow Frank's numbers out of the water.

 

If that is even close to true, life will be good for Sox fans.