MLB Fun
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Posts posted by MLB Fun
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15 minutes ago, raBBit said:
Yeah the Astros use of technology to cheat is what separates them as a scumbag organization. This isn't Art Kusnyer peaking the bench coach and 3rd base coach all game to try his hand at guessing the signs. This is computer algorithms decoding signs and running thousands of scenarios in seconds time.
That is not cheating. The Astros were never in trouble for their Codebreaker program. Every team in the league would have used computer algorithms to decode signs if they were smart enough rather than doing it by hand.
And, we don’t know what other teams do. They might have had a similar code breaking tool.
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1 hour ago, tray said:
MLBfun:
I see you have 4 posts on this forum, all dedicated to the Astros' cheating scandal.
A simple Google search on the topic reveals that the sign stealing scheme was planned in 2016.
As reported this year by The Wall Street Journal, operation "Codebreaker" was presented to Luhnow by intern Derek Vigoa, who would eventually be promoted to director of team operations. The Powerpoint set forth the premise of a systematic sign-stealing scheme in which the Astros would illegally use cameras to get live intel into what pitch was on the way and pass that information to hitters in real time. The possible advantage there, of course, was astronomical.
On Sept. 22, 2016, an intern in the Houston Astros organization showed general manager Jeff Luhnow a PowerPoint presentation that featured the latest creation by the team’s high-tech front office: an Excel-based application programmed with an algorithm that could decode the opposing catchers’ signs. It was called “Codebreaker.”
There are current allegations that it continued through 2019.
The Rays reportedly asked MLB to look for "Houston players wearing vibrating Band-Aids" during the '19 ALDS, and Martino details a tense interaction between the Yankees and Astros hitting coach Alex Cintrón during the '19 ALCS.
"The exact tone and volume of the whistle would vary, depending on the pitch that [Masahiro] Tanaka was about to throw," Martino wrote. "Yankees manager Aaron Boone and a few of his coaches started yelling across at Cintrón, telling him to stop."
“ 'What the f--- are you gonna do about it?' ” Cintrón called back."
Hinch vehemently denied all sign-stealing allegations during the 2019 playoffs. He said the claims of cheating were a "joke." He was fired in January '20, shortly after MLB issued his yearlong suspension.
https://www.si.com/mlb/2021/06/09/astros-sign-stealing-scheme-continued-2019-playoffs
There was sufficient evidence presented to the Commissioner's Office that Hinch knew about the cheating scandal all along and did nothing to stop it. That is why he was fined and suspended and in my opinion, should have received a lifetime ban from baseball. If he was truly innocent, he would have challenged the suspension and fine in a court of law and prevailed. I do not recall seeing that he did that.
Those are all just nonsense allegations from some guy selling a book. I mean, vibrating Band-Aids? C’mon.
P.S., Codebreaker was simply a computer program that would crack the catcher’s signs. Every team in the league had a guy in the back doing it by hand. They would watch the catcher and try to figure out the signs and relay it to the rest of the team so that when they got a runner on second, the runner could alert the batter. Every team in the league does this. The only difference is that the Astros had the help of a computer program to crack the signs instead of just a guy figuring it out on his own. It had nothing to do with the trash can banging in 2017.
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6 minutes ago, tray said:
Astro players and coaches who knew about or participated in the cheating scandal should have received more than a slap on the wrist from major league baseball.
That includes Hinch and Keuchel. The Astros play if down, but the cheating scheme was premeditated and took place over three seasons including the play-offs.
It was two seasons, 2017 and some of 2018, and there is zero evidence that it was done in the playoffs. It’s also not feasible that it was done in the playoffs as the crowd is way too loud. Also, the opponents changed signs constantly in the playoffs.
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7 minutes ago, Lillian said:
And what about the evidence that suggests that Altuve was wearing a wire? Remember when he grabbed his shirt, for fear that his teammates would tear it off, while celebrating a walk off homer?
There is absolutely zero evidence that Altuve or anyone was wearing any sort of electronic device. That was completely made up out of thin air by Jomboy on Twitter, and because there was a fervor of Astros hate at a fever-pitch, everyone ran with it without a single shred of evidence. I mean, just think about it. If Altuve wasn't even willing to have anyone bang on a trash can while he was batting, do you really think he'd put some kind of wire on? And if the players were wearing a wire, do you really think they'd try to rip his shirt off? It makes absolutely zero sense, and is one of the sillier conspiracy theories in sports.
Astros players would sometimes rip the shirt off of a player who had a walk-off hit. Altuve didn't want them to do that after having a walk-off homer to send them to the World Series on national television. That's all it was.
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First off, let's talk about 2017. The investigation found that the two people who brought the sign stealing scheme to Houston were Carlos Beltran and assistant coach Alex Cora. Both joined the team for the 2017 season. So they were not cheating before then. If you look at Altuve's stats, he hit .338 the year before in 2016, .313 in 2015, and .341 in 2014. He can just rake.
Let's talk a little more about Altuve and the cheating scandal, since many seem to want him to be the face of it. Based on the evidence, Altuve was clean.
Look at his home and away batting splits in 2017. At home he hit .311, but on the road he hit .381. Every single stat of his was better on the road. Carlos Correa has said that Altuve did not use the sign stealing scheme, and refused to participate. Here is that interview:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Waxx9kLqnlc
Here's the transcript of Correa in that interview:
QuoteJose Altuve, Josh Reddick, Tony Kemp.. they didn't use it, at all. They didn't want to. They would get mad if somebody would bang the trash can when they were hitting. And yeah, those guys... they're not gonna say it. They're not gonna say it. Altuve is too humble to go out there and throw his team under the bus. I'm gonna say it because I was there. I saw it. I saw it with my own eyes. They didn't want it. I remember one time, somebody banged the trash can without his consent, when he was hitting. He was heated. And you guys don't see Altuve mad very often, but you don't want to see him mad. When he's mad, he's heated. And I would remember he would get heated any time someone accidentally, or without his consent would bang on the trash can.
And the evidence seems to support that admission from Correa. Here is a chart from a guy who plotted every trash can bang he could from the 2017 season. Here is a comparison of Altuve to some others, such as Marwin Gonzales and George Springer:
There is a video out there where you can hear a bang when Altuve is up to bat, and he looks at the Astros dugout and looked pissed off. I honestly believe what Correa said is the truth. He has been very candid through the whole thing. Edit: Here is the video of Altuve looking pissed at the dugout after a bang: https://twitter.com/adams_at/status/1402342356456722434?s=21
As for the sign-stealing scheme as a whole, there isn't really any evidence that it worked to begin with. If you look at the stats, the Astros hit .279 at home and .284 on the road. Every stat was better on the road than it was at home.
The truth seems to be that the Astros can just flat-out hit. They thought this sign-stealing scheme could make them even better, but in reality at best it seemed to have very little effect at all. I think it's been proven not only in the stats, but also that their team can still absolutely rake even after all this stuff came out.
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Could the Astros Still Be Cheating?
in Pale Hose Talk
Posted
The Astros didn’t get caught. They were ratted out by a disgruntled former player.
Many other teams have been accused of doing similar things, such as the Rockies, Brewers, Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers, and more. The difference is they haven’t had anyone rat on them.