Black_Jack29
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Posts posted by Black_Jack29
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3 minutes ago, Buehrle>Wood said:
There are 26 spots and I think the best use of it is a rotating bat/catcher. Collins is actually a pretty perfect fit.
My bad, I forgot about the roster change. In that case, maybe it'll work.
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4 minutes ago, BackDoorBreach said:
The problem is, his much cheaper replacement should be up 2021 unless something goes really wrong this year. There is 0 reason to bring back Abreu on a 2 or 3 year deal. 3 years would be awful.
Vaughn hasn't shown that he can hit at the ML level yet and the Sox are projected to be competitive in 2021. I'd rather have Jose in my lineup (especially if he's DHing half of the time) while I'm trying to knock off the Twins than a rookie.
If the Sox can ink Jose through 2022, with the understanding that he's going to be a half-time DH at that point, I don't see that as a negative at all.
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32 minutes ago, Perfect Vision said:
I haven't read through the whole thread so this may have been mentioned, but this probably ends the possibility of an Abreu multi-year deal. The Sox are almost certainly planning on Vaughn becoming the primary 1B in early 2021, and Grandal will probably gradually DH more over the course of his contract. The Sox aren't going to pay Abreu to be a part time DH.
I don't see how this move has anything to do with Abreu. I doubt that the FO would have Abreu sign a qualifying offer with a gentleman's agreement that they'd work out a two- or three-year deal over the winter. I think that they want Abreu around for at least a couple more years and Abreu obviously wants to stay here.
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3 hours ago, chw42 said:
No I think you can still split Grandal between DH and C. He's not getting any younger.
Most managers won't do this because if your catcher gets hurt and you replace him with your backup catcher who is currently playing DH, you lose the DH. I suppose that the Sox could carry three catchers on their 25-man roster and rotate them at DH, but that seems unlikely, especially with Jose needing a day off of 1B once a week or so. I think it's more likely that Collins gets dealt.
I'm pretty stoked about his move, even though the Sox didn't really need a catcher. They got a nice bat at a nice price. I'll be even more excited when they sign a #1 or #2 SP.
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I'm guessing that Collins has at least a couple of options left. If that's the case, he can spend a good chunk of 2020 in Charlotte next season. McCann is a FA in 2021 and I don't see the Sox re-signing him.
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8 hours ago, TheFutureIsNear said:
I get why people will overrate Lopez and Collins, but I say trade them while they have value...because I don’t think they’ll have much in 2 years
Lopez is dirt-cheap and is under team control for the next three or so years. He's inconsistent as hell, but he's also young and has shown flashes of dominance. That's exactly the type of pitcher the Sox need to anchor the back of the rotation while they spend on a couple of established veterans to fill out the rotation.
I don't know what to expect out of Collins going forward, but I doubt that McCann is going to put up a .789 OPS next season.
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2 hours ago, GreenSox said:
I readily accept that the Sox won't spend Yankee/Dodger money.
What I find find so frustrating is that they refuse to put themselves in the best position possible, or even in a reasonable position, given those constraints.They certainly don’t hire the right scouting and player development personnel to compete with those constraints.
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3 hours ago, poppysox said:
The changes you outline are enough to compete in 2020 IMO. People tend to forget that 4 positions in our lineup were virtual black holes. Robert, Madrigal, RF and DH makes this a fun lineup. We will have much better pitching for most of the year with no additions...just the returns of Kopech, Rodon and Dunning . A couple of serviceable starters makes this a very respectable team. Cole is obviously much better than the 2nd tier pitchers we discuss here. JDM is better than a serviceable DH. I see the floor as a competitive fun team to watch with the ceiling being a trip to the WS if things break right. Fun offseason gonna start soon.
I think that the Sox are going to have a tough time competing in this division with the Twins and Indians, even with the changes that I outlined. That said. I agree that they’ll be interesting and fun to watch in 2020.
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4 hours ago, tray said:
Things are heading in a positive direction for our team and for the organization. The fan base is solid. Who gets credit for all that ?
They are?
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Just now, Chicago White Sox said:
First, not that it matters, but the Sox didn’t sign Alonso. Second, I don’t think you honestly believe that, I think it’s simply what you want to believe to support your “Reinsdorf is cheap” view.
Sorry, "traded for."
I'd love to believe that JR was actually willing to sign a 10-year, $250M commitment to a player. But nothing about his way of doing business suggests that he'd do such a thing.
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Just now, Tony said:
It’s actually working better than the argument you are trying to spin. It just doesn’t make any sense
You know what else doesn't make any sense? Reinsdorf and Einhorn switching the Sox to pay TV while their in-town competitor broadcasted their games on a nationally aired cable TV station. Or JR leading a hard-line contingent of owners and triggering a strike while the Sox were in first place. Or trading away some of your best players in late July when you're 3 1/2 games out of first place. The Sox have a long history of making moves that seem incredibly dumb in hindsight.
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1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said:
Gives the impression the Sox are trying? The only impression Sox fans have of management when it comes to free agents is we always come in second place. And somehow, you actually think putting on some great big spectacle but with the intentions of coming in second place would help their image. Please don’t try getting a job in public relations, because you clearly don’t get how this shit works.
You can make all the disparaging comments you want, but it doesn't strengthen your argument.
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Just now, Tony said:
Again, the key point you are missing, and have multiple members telling you the same thing........creating a false impression and coming in 2nd for Machado didn’t help the fan base. It didn’t help season tickets, it doesn’t do anything, except maybe anger people more. The strategy wasn’t to create that impression, the strategy was to sign Machado for their price, and they failed.
its just shocking you can’t figure this out.
I never claimed that it was an intelligent strategy and, yes, it clearly backfired. (The silly signing of Alonso and Jay was a big part of it backfiring.) But I honestly believe that the Sox never intended to pay Machado $250M.
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Just now, Chicago White Sox said:
(1) without question because he made that exact offer in hopes of landing him?
Does it make sense that a notoriously cheap owner would want to be on the hook for $250M at age 83, when he's probably close to selling the team?
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1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said:
What in the world are you talking about? Take off the tin foil hat and read what you’re actually writing. It’s complete utter nonsense.
This wasn’t a PR stunt as missing out on Manny completely blew up in their faces. The fanbase is still enraged about this and even skeptical than ever before (for god’s sake read your posts). They simply botched the process and refused to go the distance with years 9 & 10.
So are you saying that the Sox front office didn't have the incentive to create the false impression that they're pursuing a big-money, marquee free agent, when they're struggling with attendance and were in the process of negotiating a new TV contract?
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1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said:
What do you mean by “debasing your franchise”?
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Just now, Tony said:
In your mind, or JR’s mind, what do you think No. 2 really accomplished? Your premise doesn’t make sense, and No. 2 doesn’t accomplish anything, everyone knew that from the jump.
It gives the impression that the Sox are trying, which is in contrast to what most of their fans believe.
If the Sox were serious about signing Machado, they would've out-bid San Diego.
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4 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:
No, not signing a pitcher to a 250 million dollar deal when you have, lets say, 325 million to spend is not a bad strategy. The Sox arent "one player away" as stone says it so it's overly risky to invest 75% of your free agent pool into one asset.
Your better off spreading that risk out amongst 4 average-very good players than 1 great player and 1 average-good player, imo.
If Cole goes down year 1 with TJ hes out that year and some of the following and coming back at 32. If he's not the same, your rebuild has been harmed significantly due to one outcome.
If the Sox think Kopech and Gio are stars (Gio is), they may think it's better to invest the money evenly and acquire more pieces to spread the risk out. That's fine.
I agree with this. The Sox are better off paying less to a guy like Wheeler, signing an average-to-below-average starter to anchor the bottom of the rotation, re-signing Abreu, going after a decent LH bat at the RH or DH spot, and seeing how Kopech, Cease, Robert, and Madrigal develop in 2020. Even with these additions, they're probably not a playoff team. They can always add more via free agency in 2021.
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Just now, wsd said:
The front office went to the extremes of their comfort levels of what they'd guarantee him knowing they're going to have a few players (Moncada, maybe Robert) in due time that are due for similar pay days.
Unless there's a change in ownership prior to 2024, the Sox are not going to re-sign Moncada and pay him the $40M/year that he's going to command on the FA market.
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10 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:
No offense man, but you sound legit nuts here. The Sox front office is not actively engaging in some conspiracy against their fanbase. The Sox did not add Alonso & Jay to trick you and other fans into thinking they were pursuing marque free agents when they really weren’t. They added those two because they honesty thought it would help them land Machado. And they really wanted to sign Manny and legit made a $250M offer to him. They ultimately lost out and failed because they wouldn’t guarantee years 9 & 10. Rip them all you like for that because it’s idiotic they thought 8/$250M would get it done, but please stop with the conspiracy angles.
Given what you know about this organization, which is more likely: (1) JR wanted to be on the hook for paying Machado $250M over the next decade or (2) JR wanted Sox fans to believe that he did all he could to sign Machado.
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1 minute ago, wsd said:
You really think the front office is obtuse enough to methodically lead on the entire fanbase for an entire winter about *maybe* signing a premier free agent? Knowing fully half the fanbase would want to burn the stadium to the ground as a result? That's bananaland crazy
Yes, and the signings of Alonso and Jay are pretty strong evidence of that.
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8 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:
It was actually a creative non quantifiable way of drawing a talent. I don't agree with it but it was creative; I'll give them that l.
Look, I suppose that the Sox's alleged $250M + incentives offer could have been real, but I would bet you a million dollars that they didn't make that offer until they knew that somebody (San Diego) offered more guaranteed money. It just doesn't make sense than a notoriously cheap owner who never gave out a contract greater than $69M would suddenly be willing to commit to a 10-year, $250M deal. When it's that far out of character for the organization, I'm going to need a lot more than hearsay to believe something like that.
This whole sad Machado episode was a giant PR stunt where the Sox front office tried to convince fans that they were really, really serious about signing Manny without having to actually pay Manny. If they hadn't gone overboard and signed Alonso and Jay, their stunt might've been more believable.
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1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:
Releasing a low ball offer to suppress a market of a negotiating strategy - business 101.
Making a "fake" 350 million dollar offer with the assumption it'll be rejected is the opposite of business 101. No one makes a 350 million dollar risk to "gain support from fans."
Debasing your franchise by cynically signing the targeted player's buddy and brother-in-law is also the opposite of business 101, so the Sox are clearly not playing by your rules.
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1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:
You may think the White Sox are a Mickey mouse enterprise when compared to other big league franchises, but businessman/lawyer jerry reinsdorf isn't lying about a contract offer to an employee in a market in which agents and employees talk to everyone.
Jerry would openly lowball you to suppress the market way before he'd lie about a final contract offer.
Given that contract negotiations are confidential and between GMs and agents, there's all sorts of opportunity for lies and misinformation.
WHITE SOX SIGN Grandal 4/$73, Palka DFAd
in Pale Hose Talk
Posted
Yes, and we're letting those kids develop now, when nobody expects the Sox to win 90+ games. The expectations are going to be much higher two years from now. Maybe the rest of the lineup will be strong enough by then that having a rookie 1B develop during a pennant push isn't a big deal. And maybe it won't. If Jose is willing to stick around via one- or two-year deals, he's a heck of an insurance policy.