CubKilla Posted March 2, 2003 Share Posted March 2, 2003 I admit that the poll is not a good poll per se. However, I have a real problem with a majority of Sox fans treating Frank Thomas like he is some kind of deity. Yes, he is the best player (offensively), as of right now, to ever don a White Sox uniform. BUT THAT DOES NOT MEAN HE IS ABOVE CRITICISM!!!!! For chrissakes, if Frank boots a play or fails to slide at home when he should have HE SHOULD BE CRITICIZED!!!!! After all, being able to criticize a Sox player for poor play is one of the things that separates us from the Northside Nitwits. Frank could have used the ST of 2003 to step up as a team leader and become the type of player that a minor leaguer could look up to. But what does the Big Hurt do? He calls a press conference to whine, b****, and moan about everything from his salary, to his contract, to his perceived failure of being a team leader, and to a lack of respect from his teammates, the press, and the opposition. BOO-f***ING-HOO Frank! This 2003 team in ST, on paper at least, is one of the best the White Sox have had in a while. This team needed NO DISTRACTIONS from the season forthcoming. Too bad the Big Hurt didn't see it this way. It took him all of a week before his "Whoa-Is-Me" press conference. I am a fan of Frank Thomas and don't want to see him anywhere but on Chicago's Southside. But as a teammate and clubhouse leader, HE IS A COMPLETE AND UTTER FAILURE!!!!! He better knock the cover off the ball this season considering he's hung a dark cloud over 2003's ST before one pitch was even thrown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted March 2, 2003 Share Posted March 2, 2003 oh come on now cw....  dont hate..... .........lol I hate no one!  Although I am taking 50¢ side in his dispute with Jay-Z... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxplosion Posted March 2, 2003 Share Posted March 2, 2003 Aside from being just a great player, Frank has loyalty! Other ballplayers are jumping ship and changing uniforms every year. For them, its all about the money, no one stays with a team just because he likes it there. Maybe Frank is about money but hes stayed in one place, and I respect him for that. Hes never demanded a trade, with the slight exception of this offseason hes never really thought of leaving. So cut him a break, will ya? Jesus! Hes only human! No ones perfect, so stop ripping on him for every tiny mistake! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supernuke Posted March 2, 2003 Share Posted March 2, 2003 No doubt that Jackson was the Thomas of his day but Thomas has done it for more years, only for us, and Thomas never took money to throw anything (no matter how much Jackson tried to re-do history later on). Frank is great but Shoeless Joe was the Greatest player to ever wear a White Sox uniform. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxplosion Posted March 2, 2003 Share Posted March 2, 2003 No doubt that Jackson was the Thomas of his day but Thomas has done it for more years, only for us, and Thomas never took money to throw anything (no matter how much Jackson tried to re-do history later on). Frank is great but Shoeless Joe was the Greatest player to ever wear a White Sox uniform. Screw Shoeless. Do the s*** he did and youre not worthy of anything. He screwed us over for nearly a century. Screw him! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hotsoxchick1 Posted March 2, 2003 Share Posted March 2, 2003 No doubt that Jackson was the Thomas of his day but Thomas has done it for more years, only for us, and Thomas never took money to throw anything (no matter how much Jackson tried to re-do history later on). Frank is great but Shoeless Joe was the Greatest player to ever wear a White Sox uniform. f*** Shoeless. Do the s*** he did and youre not even worthy of sucking a goats dick. He f***ed us over for nearly a century. f*** him! :fyou :fyou :fyou oh please tell me that you just didnt go there roman..........you name yourself after the biggest asshole in the baseball industry and you have enough nerve to dump on shoeless joe????????? you really want to piss me off again right............. :fyou Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxplosion Posted March 2, 2003 Share Posted March 2, 2003 Hsc, I dont want to piss you off again. But I just dont see why everyone looks up to a criminal like hes a hero. Comiskey was the greatest. Gandil, Jackson, Risberg, McMullin, Ciccotte, Williams, Weaver and Felsch were all criminals and I shall never look up to a single one of them. Its given us a bad rep and I hate em for it. Play your best, always! Geez, to me, losing on purpose is worse than winning by cheating... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supernuke Posted March 2, 2003 Share Posted March 2, 2003 No doubt that Jackson was the Thomas of his day but Thomas has done it for more years, only for us, and Thomas never took money to throw anything (no matter how much Jackson tried to re-do history later on). Frank is great but Shoeless Joe was the Greatest player to ever wear a White Sox uniform. f*** Shoeless. Do the s*** he did and youre not even worthy of sucking a goats dick. He f***ed us over for nearly a century. f*** him! :fyou :fyou :fyou The only things that Joe did wrong was that he had knowledge of the fix and suposedly didn't tell anybody, although there is some evidence that he tried to tell Charles Comiskey but Comiskey wouldn't talk to him because he was already working on a cover up and he felt Joe wasn't bright enough to help. The other thing he did wrong was not knowing what to do with the money that was given to him for the fix and keeping it, however he was told to keep it by Comiskey's representatives and there is evidence that he never spent the money. If the old roman wasn't such a cheap prick that scandel never would have happend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hotsoxchick1 Posted March 2, 2003 Share Posted March 2, 2003 Hsc, I dont want to piss you off again. But I just dont see why everyone looks up to a criminal like hes a hero. Comiskey was the greatest. Gandil, Jackson, Risberg, McMullin, Ciccotte, Williams, Weaver and Felsch were all criminals and I shall never look up to a single one of them. Its given us a bad rep and I hate em for it. Play your best, always! Geez, to me, losing on purpose is worse than winning by cheating... roman lets just let this drop.. your second and third sentence say it all.. and i do not need to toss my temper around on you tonite... more on this subject............ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubKilla Posted March 2, 2003 Share Posted March 2, 2003 Comiskey was the greatest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted March 2, 2003 Share Posted March 2, 2003 Hsc, I dont want to piss you off again. But I just dont see why everyone looks up to a criminal like hes a hero. Comiskey was the greatest. Gandil, Jackson, Risberg, McMullin, Ciccotte, Williams, Weaver and Felsch were all criminals and I shall never look up to a single one of them. Its given us a bad rep and I hate em for it. Play your best, always! Geez, to me, losing on purpose is worse than winning by cheating... Roman, you like to read, and I'm sure you read a little on Comiskey. You know that he didn't pay his players very much at all in a time of no free agency, right? You do know why the White Sox were known as the Black Sox in the late 1910s and that era, right? Comiskey was too cheap to pay for laundry....and because of that, the White Sox uniforms were never washed. Thus, their socks were black, and they acquired the name "Black Sox"....I believe this is true anyways. I also remember reading a little about him about how he had to pay a player a bonus of about $1,000 if he won 25 games, or something like that. When the pitcher had 24 wins, he had him benched, and he didn't get the bonus. What a nice guy, huh? Â Comiskey was the main reason and the main motive behind the players accepting of the bet. When you are getting, hypothetically, $2,000 a year and you will get a $1,000 bonus for winning the Series and are guaranteed $5,000 each if you throw the series...which are you going to do? With the World Series, you get the little bonus(and that is even if you win it....you might not even win it) and $2,000....while with the bet, you get $5,000....that is a lot of money and way more than you would get for playing the World Series. Â And the main reason Jackson was banned was because Comiskey was friends with the judge, not because he accepted any money. In fact, he didn't accept ANY money. I assume Comiskey wanted him and the 8 others banned because they disrespected him badly and were 'accepting' more money than he would give them. He wanted them punished harshly and told the judge this. Â I'm surprised more people weren't happy with the name change of the stadium.....we now will rarely have to hear that asshole's name, unlike before, when we had to hear it almost every day. A great name for a stadium would be Veeck Stadium....that is what we should name the stadium when USCF's name-contract ends.....he was quite possibly the best owner ever. He devoted a ton of time and he knew what he was doing, and he could field a winning team with any team. He was also a hell of an attention drawer....he drew like over 80,000 people to the Municipal Grounds in Cleveland during the '48 World Series and knew how to please the public....he had a midget bat, which had never and will never be done again. That got people to show up and watch a team(the Browns) that sucked ass. He also started showing fireworks after games and after homers and stuff like that. He also had "aliens" drop down on the field during the game and "abduct" I believe Luis Aparicio and Nellie Fox(one of whom was Eddie Gaedel, the same midget who batted). Â Point of this being....if Jackson was an asshole, Comiskey was the cause. And that Veeck was a great owner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubKilla Posted March 2, 2003 Share Posted March 2, 2003 Joe Jackson was the only Sox player during the 1919 WS to hit over .300, hit a HR, and not make an error. Any speculation that Jackson was involved in throwing the WS is just that..... speculation. Prove that he threw the series or tried to with those numbers. Â And you are right witesoxfan. The "Black Sox" were known as the "Black Sox" among Chicagoans and Chicago sports media at the time before the scandel because washing uniforms cost money and Comiskey was too cheap to even do that for his players. The moniker stuck as a result of the national media using the Chicagoans term "Black Sox" to describe the team after news of the scandal broke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSoxPride3035 Posted March 2, 2003 Share Posted March 2, 2003 Im not even going to vote. To give so much disrespect to a legend is a disgraceful... So True. We will keep on the Chicago White Sox until he can no longer throw a baseball. He is what you think of nowadays when you mention the name "White Sox." I didn't even vote for one of those choices because all will not happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathew Posted March 2, 2003 Share Posted March 2, 2003 I'm a' take the unpopular side of don't take money for throwing the Worls Series. That is undisputable for so many players. Comisky was a s***, but playing baseball for a living didn't suck that bad(underpaid as they were), who else was guilty of tossing a series, that f***ed us forever, sorry if I misspelled I drank a lot tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted March 2, 2003 Share Posted March 2, 2003 1. And the main reason Jackson was banned was because Comiskey was friends with the judge, not because he accepted any money. In fact, he didn't accept ANY money.  2. A great name for a stadium would be Veeck Stadium....that is what we should name the stadium when USCF's name-contract ends.....he was quite possibly the best owner ever. 1. Disagree. My reading shows that Jackson took money. These guys were banned because they conspired to throw the World Series and were on the take from gamblers. There does not need to be any other reason than that.  (And Cubkilla, it is not what you you, it is when you hit it, and it is also how you play defense - being a step slow, the throw being a tad off and slow, etc. You know that these things cannot be "proved" now with all the participants dead. But the suspicions arose at the time by the people who saw the Sox suddenly play like bush leaguers and in a a few games suddenly turn it back on again. It was obvious to those who saw it.)  2. And this puts me in the odd position of disagreeing with you not only once, but also twice. Veeck may have been the most fun owner ever but it was hardly the best. In both of his tenures with the Sox he traded away our future and had all kinds of questionable trades. Call it being uncapitalized, call it being a riverboat gambler, call it having a very short attention span - his periods of ownership were (mercifully) brief, he always felt compelled to go on and do something different, but he left us depleted both times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okgoh Posted March 2, 2003 Share Posted March 2, 2003 This poll SUCKS! Where is the option-- Watch Frank hit 330 , deliver the Sox to the post season and make you apologize for asking such a dumbass question? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted March 2, 2003 Share Posted March 2, 2003 1. And the main reason Jackson was banned was because Comiskey was friends with the judge, not because he accepted any money. Â In fact, he didn't accept ANY money. Â Â 2. Â A great name for a stadium would be Veeck Stadium....that is what we should name the stadium when USCF's name-contract ends.....he was quite possibly the best owner ever. 1. Disagree. My reading shows that Jackson took money. These guys were banned because they conspired to throw the World Series and were on the take from gamblers. There does not need to be any other reason than that. Â (And Cubkilla, it is not what you you, it is when you hit it, and it is also how you play defense - being a step slow, the throw being a tad off and slow, etc. You know that these things cannot be "proved" now with all the participants dead. But the suspicions arose at the time by the people who saw the Sox suddenly play like bush leaguers and in a a few games suddenly turn it back on again. It was obvious to those who saw it.) Â 2. And this puts me in the odd position of disagreeing with you not only once, but also twice. Veeck may have been the most fun owner ever but it was hardly the best. In both of his tenures with the Sox he traded away our future and had all kinds of questionable trades. Call it being uncapitalized, call it being a riverboat gambler, call it having a very short attention span - his periods of ownership were (mercifully) brief, he always felt compelled to go on and do something different, but he left us depleted both times. Then we'll agree to disagree....no need to drone on about a non-topic. Both happened well before my time and I've only read about them, and we have a baseball season up ahead of us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxplosion Posted March 2, 2003 Share Posted March 2, 2003 Yeah, I knew about the whole dirty uniforms Black Sox thing. But Comiskey is still the reason we have a team and an AL. He was the greatest... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supernuke Posted March 2, 2003 Share Posted March 2, 2003 1. And the main reason Jackson was banned was because Comiskey was friends with the judge, not because he accepted any money. Â In fact, he didn't accept ANY money. Â Â 2. Â A great name for a stadium would be Veeck Stadium....that is what we should name the stadium when USCF's name-contract ends.....he was quite possibly the best owner ever. 1. Disagree. My reading shows that Jackson took money. These guys were banned because they conspired to throw the World Series and were on the take from gamblers. There does not need to be any other reason than that. Â (And Cubkilla, it is not what you you, it is when you hit it, and it is also how you play defense - being a step slow, the throw being a tad off and slow, etc. You know that these things cannot be "proved" now with all the participants dead. But the suspicions arose at the time by the people who saw the Sox suddenly play like bush leaguers and in a a few games suddenly turn it back on again. It was obvious to those who saw it.) Â 2. And this puts me in the odd position of disagreeing with you not only once, but also twice. Veeck may have been the most fun owner ever but it was hardly the best. In both of his tenures with the Sox he traded away our future and had all kinds of questionable trades. Call it being uncapitalized, call it being a riverboat gambler, call it having a very short attention span - his periods of ownership were (mercifully) brief, he always felt compelled to go on and do something different, but he left us depleted both times. I know that this is a fine line but I think that there is a difference between taking money and being given money that you didn't want, which is what happend to Joe. Joe is only problem was guilty knowledge and even that is debateable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted March 2, 2003 Share Posted March 2, 2003 Yeah, I knew about the whole dirty uniforms Black Sox thing. But Comiskey is still the reason we have a team and an AL. He was the greatest... Without Comiskey....we'd be cheering for another team. That is no big deal. Had the White Sox never been created, we would never have known about them and we'd all be cheering for like the Phillies or something like that....maybe a different person would have founded the White Sox....but point blank, Comiskey was an asshole. I don't give a rat's ass that he started the White Sox...he treated his players like s*** and was probably the biggest motive behind the Black Sox scandal. If you think Comiskey is the greatest because he started the White Sox....then you must be the type of person that likes Blondie because she created rap. Â Anyways....there's some stuff on the Black Sox scandal on ESPN Classic tonight(like Sports Century or something), I believe like around 7 ET time....and then Eight Men Out is on. I figure I'll check it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bighurt52235 Posted March 2, 2003 Share Posted March 2, 2003 Eight Men Out is a pretty good movie. I rented it last Summer. It seems to portray Shoeless Joe as a good guy in the movie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clujer420 Posted March 3, 2003 Share Posted March 3, 2003 Eight Men Out is a pretty good movie. I rented it last Summer. It seems to portray Shoeless Joe as a good guy in the movie. I've only seen Shoeless Joe portrayed in Field of Dreams (a great movie), and he's portrayed as an idol in that. Seems like he's regarded as a good guy all around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted March 3, 2003 Share Posted March 3, 2003 Then we'll agree to disagree....no need to drone on about a non-topic. I can't believe we ever disagreed at all. Â Bt I suppose we have gotten all our disagreements out of the way for this decade because I always otherwise agree with you. Â And which one of us ever droned on about anything? You? me? No way! We simply speak the truth - it is all the others who drone on and on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxplosion Posted March 3, 2003 Share Posted March 3, 2003 Yeah, I knew about the whole dirty uniforms Black Sox thing. But Comiskey is still the reason we have a team and an AL. He was the greatest... Without Comiskey....we'd be cheering for another team. That is no big deal. Had the White Sox never been created, we would never have known about them and we'd all be cheering for like the Phillies or something like that....maybe a different person would have founded the White Sox....but point blank, Comiskey was an asshole. I don't give a rat's ass that he started the White Sox...he treated his players like s*** and was probably the biggest motive behind the Black Sox scandal. If you think Comiskey is the greatest because he started the White Sox....then you must be the type of person that likes Blondie because she created rap. Â Anyways....there's some stuff on the Black Sox scandal on ESPN Classic tonight(like Sports Century or something), I believe like around 7 ET time....and then Eight Men Out is on. I figure I'll check it out. Actually Im watching Eight men Out right now. I missed a good part of it so I think Im just going to rent it next weekend. But I still think Comiskey was the greatest. Jackson, Gandil and the rest of them were crooks. I dont want to remember them. Remember instead those like Kerr, Collins, Faber and more recent and more honest stars. Id like to see those eight men out of memory as well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxplosion Posted March 3, 2003 Share Posted March 3, 2003 Like tons of other teams threw games back in that era. But none of them have bad reps because they dont choose to remember em. Do ya see any Giants fans praising Hal Chase? No, you dont. Maybe theres a curse on this team and maybe if we stop praising the Black Sox itll go away. Praise Fisk, praise Collins, praise Thomas. But dont praise Jackson! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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