Bmr31 Posted June 1, 2003 Share Posted June 1, 2003 you piece of s*** :fyou Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubKilla Posted June 1, 2003 Share Posted June 1, 2003 Holy f***ing s***..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clujer420 Posted June 1, 2003 Share Posted June 1, 2003 you piece of s*** :fyou Tough play...but one that needs to be made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmr31 Posted June 1, 2003 Author Share Posted June 1, 2003 Tough play...but one that needs to be made. Needs? s*** it wasnt tough for a major leaguer. What a f***ing piece of s***. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clujer420 Posted June 1, 2003 Share Posted June 1, 2003 Needs? s*** it wasnt tough for a major leaguer. What a f***ing piece of s***. It wasn't that easy of a play man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSOX45 Posted June 1, 2003 Share Posted June 1, 2003 you piece of s*** :fyou I'm ready for the White Flag trade right now, first Kenny Williams and Jerry Manuel than the team. Â We've lost two of three from Detroit and Cleveland. Why the f*** do these two assholes still have a job?! Â CWSOX45 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molto Posted June 1, 2003 Share Posted June 1, 2003 wasn't easy, but wasn't hard either. should've been caught, but he brings range, a strong arm, baserunning skills and clutch hitting, so it is okay, because Valentin is the greatest player in baseball. Â Â Â by the way, I'm being sarcastic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clujer420 Posted June 1, 2003 Share Posted June 1, 2003 wasn't easy, but wasn't hard either. should've been caught, but he brings range, a strong arm, baserunning skills and clutch hitting, so it is okay, because Valentin is the greatest player in baseball.   by the way, I'm being sarcastic. Your sarcasm is nausiating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted June 1, 2003 Share Posted June 1, 2003 you piece of s*** :fyou Careful! The St JosE6 police will be after you! Â St JosE6 is perfect! Â Must not have been St JosE6's fault, the earth moved or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmr31 Posted June 1, 2003 Author Share Posted June 1, 2003 It wasn't that easy of a play man. Dude is what a f***ing popup that bounced rigght off his f***ign glove, its a play that should be made. Plain and simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clujer420 Posted June 1, 2003 Share Posted June 1, 2003 Dude is what a f***ing popup that bounced rigght off his f***ign glove, its a play that should be made. Plain and simple. Well whatever. He did well to get in position to make the play -- it just wasn't made.  There's always next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSOX45 Posted June 1, 2003 Share Posted June 1, 2003 It wasn't that easy of a play man. Yeah you're right. There aren't that many shortstops around this league that can make that play. CWSOX45 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubKilla Posted June 1, 2003 Share Posted June 1, 2003 wasn't easy, but wasn't hard either. should've been caught, but he brings range, a strong arm, baserunning skills and clutch hitting, so it is okay, because Valentin is the greatest player in baseball.   by the way, I'm being sarcastic. Your sarcasm is nausiating. Nobody ever said he was the greatest player in baseball..... just stated some of the things that he brings/has given to the White Sox in the past. So shove it :fyou Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clujer420 Posted June 1, 2003 Share Posted June 1, 2003 Yeah you're right. There aren't that many shortstops around this league that can make that play. CWSOX45 :fyou           Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSOX45 Posted June 1, 2003 Share Posted June 1, 2003 Yeah you're right. There aren't that many shortstops around this league that can make that play. CWSOX45 Since it's not in green, I'll assume you're being sincere.  And if you are, you are correct -- not many guys make that play. My mistake. Check it again.  CWSOX45 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted June 1, 2003 Share Posted June 1, 2003 wasn't easy, but wasn't hard either. should've been caught, but he brings range, a strong arm, baserunning skills and clutch hitting, so it is okay, because Valentin is the greatest player in baseball. Â Hey, I didn't know that there is some sort of weird dual reality: either the player is an Ozzie Smith like superman...or he is a bum...There is no middle ground, give or take, where a defensive +/- tell the story... Â Â This wasn't sarcasm Molto, quit hatin' on Jose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clujer420 Posted June 1, 2003 Share Posted June 1, 2003 Yeah you're right. There aren't that many shortstops around this league that can make that play. CWSOX45 Since it's not in green, I'll assume you're being sincere.  And if you are, you are correct -- not many guys make that play. My mistake. Check it again.  CWSOX45 My mistake. Check mine again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSOX45 Posted June 1, 2003 Share Posted June 1, 2003 Yeah you're right. There aren't that many shortstops around this league that can make that play. CWSOX45 Since it's not in green, I'll assume you're being sincere.  And if you are, you are correct -- not many guys make that play. My mistake. Check it again.  CWSOX45 My mistake. Check mine again. You knew which post I was referring to. My statement still made perfect sense.  CWSOX45 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molto Posted June 1, 2003 Share Posted June 1, 2003 mine was sarcasm, which doesn't take what I said as my honest belief. when I say "he's the great player in the MLB" sarcasticly, it doesn't mean I really think people here feel he's the greatest, but people here do feel he's a good player, which is just stupid. as I said for over two years years now, Valentin doesn't help this team. Â I'm not saying this based on the play he made today, but the fact that these are things he does, whether the game is on the line or not. a good defensive player makes that play and we are playing as we speak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted June 1, 2003 Share Posted June 1, 2003 I'm not saying this based on the play he made today, but the fact that these are things he does, whether the game is on the line or not. a good defensive player makes that play and we are playing as we speak  1. When I evaluate Jose as a SS I only go by 2000 and 2003; in 2001-2002 he's been jerked around the field and wasn;t healthy because of his hamstrings, altho his clutch numbers or runs saved/cost factor were still satistactory at 3rd/SS- just not as good as when he is a fulltime player.  2. I never said Jose is a "good defensive player"- at best he is average, though at the end of the season he costs the Sox less runs than Tejada, Guzman, etc...even Almighty Vizquel has cost more runs with his errors this seaosn than Jose as hard as it is to believe (4 to 3). My point is that he is in fact NOT the terrible liability on D. some of you seem to think he is looking only at one-demensional error totals. He is no worse than Crede (how many runs his miscues and "infield singles" have costs I shudder to think) and Konerko, to say nothing of Jimenez whose range is worse than I ever thought....,And Jose has only 1 error in last 21 games, vastly improving the ark on his throws as soon as he got regular chance to play SS, which I always mantained he needs to, it has pshychological effect on him more than other plays, IMO.  3. This was a tough play all things considered (wind, sun, power of the swing, where Jose started off, game situation, etc) and he almost made it. Give him 10 chances, he makes the catch on 9, same as most shortstops not named Vizquel.....and yet even He let the ball go between his legs in the last game and has 7 errors this season, BTW.......If you want to condemn Jose based on his play in Minnesota (we still lose without his bat either way), fine, but today's play I've seen personally and no way should it be held against him. No way, itsimply wasn't a routine play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmr31 Posted June 1, 2003 Author Share Posted June 1, 2003 Brando I really do think you have a "thing" for Jose. Your thought process is irrational and you are totally obsessed with Jose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molto Posted June 1, 2003 Share Posted June 1, 2003 you still don't get it. jsut because someones error doesn't cost a team a game, doesn't mean it isn't costly. Â as shown today, a HUGE game for us, play hit to Valentin, and he botches it. this just so happens be the time that it hurts us unlike other times where we bail him out. we had no chance to bail him out today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted June 1, 2003 Share Posted June 1, 2003 you still don't get it. jsut because someones error doesn't cost a team a game, doesn't mean it isn't costly. Â I think it is YOU who is not getting something here: not all erors are created equal and a two out/noone error is INFINITELY "better" than the one Graffanino comitted in Toronto which led to 5 runs or the dropped pop up (talk about routine) in Oakland by Jimenez than led to 3 runs or no-bend bases load miscue by Konerko in KC which led to 4 runs, I can go on andf on and on..........The most important defensive stat is +/-, which includes how many runs a players saves (Jose has saved a few in Tornto and this searies alone with dives, jumps, range and DP you can;'t argue with that) versus how many runs he costs (Minnesota botched DP and 2-run error in Oakland are the only ones that come to mind). Â Check out Tejada, Guzman's numbers or Vizquel's +/- (he costs 1 run in last game, don't you rmemeber)? They are BOTH worse than Jose this season. You're simply wrong on this one, Rio, and you are reaching with "pitcher has to throw additional pitches" arguement because when Jose coples a tough DP and saves those same pitches from being thrown you don't yell :oh, that Jose just bailed the pitcher out", do you? Â as shown today, a HUGE game for us, play hit to Valentin, and he botches it. this just so happens be the time that it hurts us unlike other times where we bail him out. we had no chance to bail him out today. Â It has shown us nothing, it was NOT a routine play, plain and simple and no amount of "ytes it was"es is not going to change that. Makeable? Therte are lot of makeable plays that don't get made, tons of them and that's why there is a official scorer who decides what is what, K? Â Â Â I am tired of this BS and this whole horse necrophilia. Jose is a medicre defensive playyer at worst and above average at best when all factors are considered. Case closed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI1020 Posted June 2, 2003 Share Posted June 2, 2003 I plead guilty. I have been one of the biggest supporters of Jose and was one of the biggest trashers of the man called Royce. I finally got to see the play last nite on WGN. He's got to catch the ball. End of story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clujer420 Posted June 2, 2003 Share Posted June 2, 2003 I plead guilty. I have been one of the biggest supporters of Jose and was one of the biggest trashers of the man called Royce. I finally got to see the play last nite on WGN. He's got to catch the ball. End of story. Royce Clayton doesn't make that catch either. He probably doesn't get a glove on it. Â But yes, the play should have been made by Jose. But, in reality, we never should have got to the point where a play like that was needed just to continue in extra innings. With a 3 run lead and our bullpen rested and ready to go, there's no excuse for losing. NONE. Â However, the great thing about baseball is that there's a game nearly everyday, so it's easy to move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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