'Jena 6' update

[Jenksismyhero]

What's with the paranoia? Did FlaSoxxJim, myself or anyone here ever call you dumb? Or even hint at it? I just pointed out that you made what seems to me to be a bizarre association of his post with a particular political wing, and also said I agreed with him that to call a shoe a deadly weapon is pretty ridiculous. And further in fact, Jim was not making light of the attack - he was making light of the apparently trumped up charge being levied.

 

So, the question still remains... what does that post have to do with left wing or right wing? I am trying to understand how you came to that conclusion.

 

I was not LOL'ing at a kid getting beaten up, nor do I think Jim was.

 

 

What would it take for this to be attempted murder? I have yet to hear anyone actually talk about the charge in a legal context. Six people sought out a kid to beat up and hurt badly. Did they intend to kill him? I don't think the media has talked about that. But apparently there was enough evidence to suggest that yes, they did.

 

It amazes me how people often discard the justice system. Let's assume the first jury was a bunch of white racist scumbags who wanted to see black kids thrown in jail. The fact still remains that the judge in the case didn't see any evidence of that, otherwise he would have thrown it out. Moreover, a second judge, who was thrown into the realm of media scrutiny because of the popularity of the case, also agreed that the charges were ok (at least concerning one of the kids).

 

Laugh and ridicule the states attorney all you want, but the fact is there was enough evidence to convict him of that charge, otherwise it would have been thrown out.

[Texsox]

Did you actually see what he was responding to in his post? I find it laughable as well. A shoe as a deadly weapon? How is that not ridiculous?

 

And what on earth does it have to do with left wing or right wing? Not to mention that some "right wing" folks responded in agreement.

But was it a wing tip?

[NorthSideSox72]

What would it take for this to be attempted murder? I have yet to hear anyone actually talk about the charge in a legal context. Six people sought out a kid to beat up and hurt badly. Did they intend to kill him? I don't think the media has talked about that. But apparently there was enough evidence to suggest that yes, they did.

 

It amazes me how people often discard the justice system. Let's assume the first jury was a bunch of white racist scumbags who wanted to see black kids thrown in jail. The fact still remains that the judge in the case didn't see any evidence of that, otherwise he would have thrown it out. Moreover, a second judge, who was thrown into the realm of media scrutiny because of the popularity of the case, also agreed that the charges were ok (at least concerning one of the kids).

 

Laugh and ridicule the states attorney all you want, but the fact is there was enough evidence to convict him of that charge, otherwise it would have been thrown out.

Wow. OK, this has gone way beyond what I intended. Look at Jim's post, and mine after. What was ridiculous to me, and still is, is the idea that a shoe is a deadly weapon. I have not said, and would not say, the charges of attempted murder are unjustified, because I haven't read enough on the case to even begin to have an opinion on that.

 

Discard the justice system? Seriously, take it down a notch.

 

[Jenksismyhero]

Wow. OK, this has gone way beyond what I intended. Look at Jim's post, and mine after. What was ridiculous to me, and still is, is the idea that a shoe is a deadly weapon. I have not said, and would not say, the charges of attempted murder are unjustified, because I haven't read enough on the case to even begin to have an opinion on that.

 

Discard the justice system? Seriously, take it down a notch.

 

I wasn't attacking you, so I didn't intend to bring anything up a notch. There is a general consensus among the country (Jesse Jackson, et al) that thinks these kids got screwed - as if the justice system would allow a racist states attorney to fill a racist jury whose verdict would be upheld by a racist judge. It just simply doesn't work that way. That's why this situation became a national story. It's ridiculous to think this would happen in 2007 with the amount of media coverage that is available.

 

And I have to disagree with your thoughts about the shoe. Using a shoe to beat someone with your hand might be laughable, but putting your heel into someones skull is quite a different story. I'll have to look up the definition of deadly weapon in the state statute, but I'd imagine a good argument could be made that it could be viewed that way.

[NorthSideSox72]

I wasn't attacking you, so I didn't intend to bring anything up a notch. There is a general consensus among the country (Jesse Jackson, et al) that thinks these kids got screwed - as if the justice system would allow a racist states attorney to fill a racist jury whose verdict would be upheld by a racist judge. It just simply doesn't work that way. That's why this situation became a national story. It's ridiculous to think this would happen in 2007 with the amount of media coverage that is available.

 

And I have to disagree with your thoughts about the shoe. Using a shoe to beat someone with your hand might be laughable, but putting your heel into someones skull is quite a different story. I'll have to look up the definition of deadly weapon in the state statute, but I'd imagine a good argument could be made that it could be viewed that way.

My understanding about devices, in the legal sense, is that a deadly weapon has to in itself present greater harm than a non-weapon, such as a fist or a foot. A shoe doesn't really qualify.

 

It is also my understanding that you do not need a deadly weapon per se in order for attempted murder to be applicable. If some huge weightlifter dude beats a scrawny guy senseless while screaming "I'll kill you!", that is probably attempted murder, but without a deadly weapon.

 

[Jenksismyhero]

My understanding about devices, in the legal sense, is that a deadly weapon has to in itself present greater harm than a non-weapon, such as a fist or a foot. A shoe doesn't really qualify.

 

It is also my understanding that you do not need a deadly weapon per se in order for attempted murder to be applicable. If some huge weightlifter dude beats a scrawny guy senseless while screaming "I'll kill you!", that is probably attempted murder, but without a deadly weapon.

 

Possibly, but again we'd have to look at how the state defines it. But I would say one can do more harm with a shoe on his foot than without it. What if these kids weren't wearing sneakers but were wearing timberland, construction-style boots (I know, total racial stereotype, but whatever)?

[Controlled Chaos]

Jena Six -- Another Story of Unequal Justice for Blacks?

By Larry Elder

Thursday, September 27, 2007

 

About the so-called Jena Six, reasonable people can disagree about whether or not prosecutors initially charged the Jena, La., defendants too harshly. The black teenage defendants stand accused of beating a white teenager unconscious.

 

Authorities, at first, charged five of the six with attempted murder, although now none of them faces attempted murder charges. Supporters of the Jena Six claim that whites hung nooses on a tree, thus provoking a series of interracial clashes.

 

Revs. Sharpton and Jackson claim that harsh treatment of the Jena Six serves as a metaphor for the continued unequal justice for blacks in America. Really?

 

Jackson, speaking in Jena, claimed that more blacks sit in jail than in college. Irrelevant as to the issue at hand, and false.

 

According to the 2000 census, there were over 2.2 million blacks in college. By mid-year 2006, according to the Justice Department, 905,600 blacks were in state or federal prisons and local jails. Even if Jackson meant black men, his assertion is still debatable. The Justice Policy Institute found that at the time of the 2000 census, 603,000 black men were in college, while 791,000 were in jail. Yet only 179,000 of incarcerated blacks were between 18 and 24 years old, the customary "college age."

 

Jackson, in Jena, cited the unequal treatment in prosecuting crack versus powder drug violations as evidence of racial discrimination. This calls for an explanation. Crack violators, the ones subject to the harshest punishment, are often black. But members of the Black Congressional Caucus, in the '80s, pushed for stiff sentences against those peddling crack, given the violence -- mostly in urban areas -- associated with it. Nearly half of the members of the Black Congressional Caucus voted for the 1986 anti-drug bill, which provided stiff sentences for crack. The federal Sentencing Commission, during the Clinton administration, recommended equalizing the penalty for crack and powder. Clinton signed legislation to block the recommendations.

 

Jackson and Sharpton suggest that the disproportionate number of blacks under the criminal justice system stems from racism.

 

But black defendants are more likely to be acquitted than white defendants. A study in the '90s found blacks convicted less frequently than whites in all but two of 14 categories of felony crimes, including murder, rape, burglary, felony theft, drug trafficking and other crimes against people. The only two types of felonies where blacks were not convicted at a lower rate than whites were felony traffic offenses and miscellaneous felonies. Cases that went to juries (only 2.8 percent of those examined) had a similar pattern, although juries convicted blacks more than whites for robbery, assault and property offenses.

 

What about the assertion that a black defendant, with the same record, is likely to serve more time than a white defendant? Many legal experts blame the results on economics -- white defendants are more likely to hire a private counselor who can get them a better deal in the courtroom. Other factors that can sway judges include family support, job security and the ability to make bail -- with white defendants more likely than blacks to fit this description. And black judges are more likely than white judges to give black defendants harsher sentences than white defendants.

 

What about DWB, Driving While Black? Many big-city police departments now record stops by race. But the compiled information tells you nothing about why police stop drivers. George Mason University professor Matthew Zingraff, who studied racial profiling, says, "Why a police officer makes a stop of an individual, we'll never know that. We'll never know the number of people who have not been stopped. It doesn't tell us motivation. It doesn't tell us what caught the police officer's eye."

 

Supporters of the Jena Six say their actions were sparked by the "hate crime" of the hanging of three -- later reported as two -- nooses on a high school campus tree. This, activists say, shows a prevalence of hate crimes against blacks in America. But economist Walter Williams notes that when hate crime statistics are adjusted for blacks' lower population numbers, proportionally, blacks commit more than twice as many hate crimes as whites.

 

Rev. Sharpton calls Jena the "Selma of its day." Let's revisit. In Selma, Ala., in 1965, 500 to 600 civil rights protesters tried to march in support of black voter registration. Local authorities attacked the marchers with whips and tear gas and billy clubs, leaving 17 people in the hospital.

 

For what it's worth, an Associated Press-AOL Black Voices survey asked blacks to name the "most important black leader." More blacks named "nobody" than anybody else. Jackson was named by 15 percent of respondents; 2 percent named Rev. Sharpton; and Louis Farrakhan, leader of the Nation of Islam, an organization also active in supporting the Jena 6, was named by 4 percent.

 

Maybe that's the real lesson of Jena.

 

[Jenksismyhero]

Ahhhhhhhhhhh snap!

 

Someone throw this in Jacksons face and shove it in his mouth.

[Gregory Pratt]

Good article.

[EvilMonkey]

Damn facts!

[Texsox]

We can cite facts all we want but perception is reality for minorities in America. Are there any white middle class males that would switch and be Black or Latino? I don't think so. It still isn't a level playing field, and won't be in my lifetime. We have however, made giant strides in my lifetime. While signs proclaiming WHITES ONLY and NO n*****S seem like ancient artifacts, there are many people alive who remember them vividly. And they would make a bigger impact on the people excluded than included. So while taking down the signs are a big step, they do not erase people's memories and attitudes.

[GoSox05]

Ahhhhhhhhhhh snap!

 

Someone throw this in Jacksons face and shove it in his mouth.

 

 

Why don't you do it? internet message board warrior.

[NorthSideSox72]

Why don't you do it? internet message board warrior.

That sounds like a good character for one of those beer commercials, where they highlight some odd hero, like "Mr. Taco Salad Maker" or "Mr. Giant Foam Finger Guy".

 

[Texsox]

That sounds like a good character for one of those beer commercials, where they highlight some odd hero, like "Mr. Taco Salad Maker" or "Mr. Giant Foam Finger Guy".

 

Bud Light!! Best advertising. BTW, a while back they ordered a site shut down that had all the MP3s of the Real American Heroes and Real Men of Genius. I couldn't figure out why. Now I know

http://www.budshop.com/budshop/itemDetail....e=3%2f28%2f2007

[sox4lifeinPA]

We can cite facts all we want but perception is reality for minorities in America. Are there any white middle class males that would switch and be Black or Latino? I don't think so. It still isn't a level playing field, and won't be in my lifetime. We have however, made giant strides in my lifetime. While signs proclaiming WHITES ONLY and NO n*****S seem like ancient artifacts, there are many people alive who remember them vividly. And they would make a bigger impact on the people excluded than included. So while taking down the signs are a big step, they do not erase people's memories and attitudes.

 

 

damn, son...it'd sure help my rap career.

[Texsox]

damn, son...it'd sure help my rap career.

Maybe not dog, you were looking fly here

 

[sox4lifeinPA]

Maybe not dog, you were looking fly here

 

 

 

see...you gotta keep a brotha down by locking him up behind a red X.

[EvilMonkey]

We can cite facts all we want but perception is reality for minorities in America. Are there any white middle class males that would switch and be Black or Latino? I don't think so. It still isn't a level playing field, and won't be in my lifetime. We have however, made giant strides in my lifetime. While signs proclaiming WHITES ONLY and NO n*****S seem like ancient artifacts, there are many people alive who remember them vividly. And they would make a bigger impact on the people excluded than included. So while taking down the signs are a big step, they do not erase people's memories and attitudes.

OK, so they almost killed the white kid as payback for past racial injustices done to their ancestors? Why didn't they just say so? They should just get a slap on the wrist then. My willingness or lack thereof to become black or latino has no bearing whatsoever on the fact that these kids beat up someone.

[Texsox]

OK, so they almost killed the white kid as payback for past racial injustices done to their ancestors? Why didn't they just say so? They should just get a slap on the wrist then. My willingness or lack thereof to become black or latino has no bearing whatsoever on the fact that these kids beat up someone.

Not my message. But you knew that. Next time use green and don't quote me.

[Jenksismyhero]

We can cite facts all we want but perception is reality for minorities in America. Are there any white middle class males that would switch and be Black or Latino? I don't think so. It still isn't a level playing field, and won't be in my lifetime. We have however, made giant strides in my lifetime. While signs proclaiming WHITES ONLY and NO n*****S seem like ancient artifacts, there are many people alive who remember them vividly. And they would make a bigger impact on the people excluded than included. So while taking down the signs are a big step, they do not erase people's memories and attitudes.

 

 

So long as you mean some people might have to work harder, then I'd agree. But if you're saying there are still barriers to success then I have to wholeheartedly disagree. Minorities in this country are given every opportunity and advantage possible. Discrimination is no longer a factor in 99.9% of cases.

[Texsox]

So long as you mean some people might have to work harder, then I'd agree. But if you're saying there are still barriers to success then I have to wholeheartedly disagree. Minorities in this country are given every opportunity and advantage possible. Discrimination is no longer a factor in 99.9% of cases.

 

Wait until you get in the real world.

[BigSqwert]

So long as you mean some people might have to work harder, then I'd agree. But if you're saying there are still barriers to success then I have to wholeheartedly disagree. Minorities in this country are given every opportunity and advantage possible. Discrimination is no longer a factor in 99.9% of cases.

That's a cute number.

 

Sorry. Couldn't resist.

[Jenksismyhero]

Wait until you get in the real world.

 

Give me one example of a barrier that a minority has to overcome that a white person wouldn't have to deal with. Just one. And again, having to work harder than the average joe is not a barrier.

[BigSqwert]

Give me one example of a barrier that a minority has to overcome that a white person wouldn't have to deal with. Just one. And again, having to work harder than the average joe is not a barrier.

http://tinyurl.com/2q88qr

 

Whoops. meant to send this one: http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=247013...TC-RSSFeeds0312

Edited October 9, 2007 by BigSqwert

[Jenksismyhero]

http://tinyurl.com/2q88qr

 

Whoops. meant to send this one: http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=247013...TC-RSSFeeds0312

 

 

We should add that to title vii - name discrimination. 17% is not a barrier.