Mouthsider

Here’s a fresh article by Josh Nelson regarding the recent developments in the process: Amtrak's planned maintenance facility next to Rate Field...What seemed like a creative solution that would be promoted as a unique and beneficial public-private partnership between Justin Ishbia and Amtrak is becoming more contentious.Not much different from the most recent Crain’s article, but still worth a read. The biggest new piece of information in this article seems to be that Amtrak will be releasing final designs soon: Outside of that, Illinois comptroller and Chicago mayoral candidate Susana Mendoza has chose to ally with the Bridgeporters, although (imo) this is a strategic move to garner support for her campaign. Like southsider2k5 has said, Amtrak can just federally supersede any resistance put up by Chicago anyways, which Mendoza most likely knows.

I don’t think the absence of a roof is a bad thing by any means, but I do think the idea is being sold short here. Being able to regulate temperatures is one thing, but the real perk the Sox would benefit from would be to never, ever have games be rained out (or, sometimes in the early season, snowed out) again. This benefit would allow them to directly compete with Wrigley for tourism, since any homestands during rough weather would essentially filter baseball fans to the unaffected, roofed White Sox stadium. This also ties in to the general idea of moving the Sox to the South Loop: by building a downtown stadium with a skyline view surrounded by a modern baseball district, Ishbia will draw in much, much more tourism. Furthermore, it would benefit blue-collar Sox fans by making a potential midweek game a guarantee time-wise. No need to worry about the 6:40pm game starting at 8:20pm, and especially no need to worry about tonight’s game getting pushed to tomorrow afternoon. They can simply close the roof and start at the scheduled time. I love the outdoors. I’d loathe the Bears playing in a dome, and I firmly believe that building a fixed-roof stadium would be the worst thing Ishbia could do. Like 77 Hitmen said, Ishbia hasn’t even released a stadium design, so there’s no need to panic either way, but if it were to have a roof, I think many here would enjoy the conveniences it would bring more than they think.

The Anaheim Ducks are actually looking to build out a hockey village just across the expressway already. It seems Kroenke may want to get in on that action via adding baseball village. Depending on the timelines, those two developments may provide us with a good model for what to expect from any potential White Sox and Fire collaborations for their respective stadium districts.

If anyone here has a gift link to that Crain’s article and would care to share or is willing to copy/paste the article, it would be very appreciated. Nevermind. Here’s a free link.

Nearly all of this consists of rebuttals that I’ve already provided reason or answer for in my prior comments, and it seems like this probably isn’t going to get anywhere. I say we just agree to disagree. Deal?

I tend to believe the simplest explanation is the most likely explanation. Jerry was handed plans to Armour Field, a first-of-its-kind, mixed-use, ballpark-centered neighborhood, but gave it all up so that he could lease parking lots owned by the state. He’s won a single World Series off trapping lightning in a bottle, and has come nowhere close since. Now, he’s asking the state to fund a new stadium (again) and to include a ballpark district to surround it. He’s just not an ambitious guy. He’s hardly willing to take on any risk. So, that all being said, I think it’s a lot simpler of an explanation to say that he just never bothered to raise a finger towards developing around 35th and Shields than it is to blame Bridgeport for shutting down a development that he probably never came up with. Bridgeport isn’t perfect by any means, but inventing a way that those residents could’ve screwed over Jerry, of all people, just doesn’t compute to me for the reasons I’ve said.

I see what you’re saying, but that’s all Ishbia’s doing. Remember that while Ishbia has been working the Amtrak angle, until recently, Reinsdorf’s been saying that his focus is on getting an entirely publicly-funded stadium at the 78… even though his next-in-line was known to be exploring a different site. Besides, the South Loop stadium has only been in the works for maybe 5(?) years now. Reinsdorf’s had ample time, but unfortunately he’s developed nothing around the stadium. It just seems like a lack of ambition.

Bridgeport is nowhere near as corporate/apartment centered. It has more family-based residences, so the Near West Side is a better demographic for that type of development. I can’t speak onto the ISFA part since they’re a black-box state department. Jerry is much easier to characterize and predict, since he’s only one person, has owned the team forever, and tends to be a creature of habit. I agree with you that it would make sense for the lots to be developed, but unfortunately nothing of the sort has been made publicly known since the Armour Field proposal. Because of this, I think it’s more likely that the relevant authorities just weren’t interested in it to begin with, rather than Bridgeporters shutting a potential development down.

I’d imagine the Wirtz family’s involvement, as well as Michael Reinsdorf taking over operations for the Bulls, are factors that would incentivize Jerry to join in developing land around there. Furthermore, the successful development of West Loop over the past couple of decades has created a domino effect heading west, so a development of the 1901 Project’s scale makes more sense to do now. Lastly, Reinsdorf and Wirtz actually own those parking lots. The ISFA owns Rate Field’s lots, so any development would involve getting the ISFA on board.

I’d wager that it was Jerry’s lack of ambition (he could’ve had Camden Yards) or the ISFA not caring to develop or sell their land before I would wager it was the alderman/neighborhood. Bridgeport loves being the home of the White Sox.

Also probably why Ishbia has been phrasing this as a Northwestern Medicine development/campus rather than a potential stadium site. If I’m remembering correctly, Ishbia and his representatives haven’t actually said anything about using the Amtrak yard for a future White Sox stadium. All that talk has stemmed from journalists (correctly) deducing that such is the case. Until he owns the land itself, it’s wise to not make plans known publicly (which is also likely why he and his team made sure Amtrak’s presentation at UIC was never publicly released).

I think this is what the Bridgeporters will actually be able to muscle. It’s less about killing the project and more about throwing a wrench (or two, three, etc.) into Amtrak’s gears. If the residents are actually capable of delaying this project, I’m sure Ishbia will grease their palms. He/his firm is the one designing the maintenance facility, after all, so sound and light barriers can certainly be arranged if needed.

Yes, ETFE roof paneling and a stellar temperature regulating system is supposedly what’s going to prevent that stadium from turning into a greenhouse. Honestly, I think they can pull it off (for the right price at least).

I’m not sure if the residents can prevent the railyard from moving, but if that land isn’t opened up, then there’ll be no land for a stadium. Ishbia’s whole plan hinges on relocating Amtrak’s facilities and rolling stock.

What’s additionally interesting (at least to me) is the architecture going into these new stadiums. Vegas’ design is modeled after the Sydney Opera House. Tampa’s design has a fixed, transparent roof that I believe is the first of its kind in all of professional baseball. The Royals aren’t as innovative, as they’re mostly just remaking Kauffman, but I can respect the “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” attitude. Though a Comiskey-esque design (like the one on the formerly leaked Amtrak renders) would be an instant classic, maybe the Sox will join the former two in the new era of stadium designs.

Pretty much, although you’re missing that the levels of activity/pollution (mostly light and noise, potentially some air) will increase exponentially, and that the process is coming along quickly despite the fact that details are being shared slowly.

Indeed to both of you. I actually quoted h. jones’ list of potential concessions in a former comment, which was then quoted by nrockway, so I’m glad to see we’re all on the same page of this discussion Speaking of discussion, in the latest Sox Machine article about this, Josh Nelson mentioned this: If both Reinsdorf and Ishbia are aligned on the site, is it safe to say that the 78 is dead, but the 14th Street Yard is coming? If so, that may call for another evolution of this discussion’s name.

Indeed. Amtrak does have eminent domain power, but those generally cannot be used to seize land belonging to a state government, i.e. Lots C and G. That’s why I mentioned a few comments ago that those lots being owned by the ISFA might slow things down, unless Amtrak plans on purchasing that land outright. To southsider2k5’s point, Amtrak could use those powers if necessary, but eminent domain is generally done as a last-resort. This is also likely why the Ishbia/private equity approach is so attractive to them.

Again, I don’t see that. I just searched this topic for “legal” and the only comments I see from the past week are mine and yours from this exchange (outside of another related to the Bears’ stadium, not the Sox’s). I think everyone’s on the same page that this is happening. I don’t mean to be pedantic with this, but I genuinely don’t know what you’re getting at.

I don’t see anyone is claiming that what Amtrak’s doing is illegal. The closest thing I see to that is users, myself included, worrying about the potential effect(s) this will have on Bridgeport and/or wondering the possible benefits Bridgeporters could negotiate for. All of that is perfectly legal.

I know it’s currently a railyard, but it’s specifically a mostly unused railyard that’s a world away from what Amtrak is describing as its replacement. I’m not anti-Amtrak by any means, but residents are justified in worrying about the effects of a 24/7 maintenance facility going up right next to them. This next part is a bit speculative, but Amtrak is already saying that Lots C and G will be required to construct the facility. There’s been some wonder as to what’s going to happen to those lots after the Sox move. It seems that writing is starting to appear on the wall.

Fair points. I’m just spitballing out of wishful thinking. The next residential meeting is the 26th, so I guess we’ll get our answers then.

I do think there’s a fine line to walk in which this move, though puzzling, could still serve to positively develop Bridgeport in some ways. h. jones raised some good points regarding concessions: Things like that would be great for the neighborhood, and would definitely help to make lemonade out of Amtrak’s lemons. However, unless prodded by relevant politicians, I’m not sure of Amtrak will do that out of the kindness of their hearts. I’m pulling for Bridgeport. After all, we wouldn’t be the “South Siders” without our south side neighborhoods.

I think this is exactly the problem. Bridgeporters can’t even afford to be upset about losing the Sox; they’ve been ambushed by plans of turning a significant amount of their neighborhood into a railyard/maintenance center. Nobody wants to see that type of industrial development grafted into a thriving neighborhood, let alone the residents. It’s gonna be interesting to see what (if anything) is done to placate the mob.

At least historically speaking, Bridgeport residents tend to be some of the most well-connected residents of this city. Good luck to Amtrak and Ishbia. I sure as hell wouldn’t want to have that crowd working against my plans. It’s interesting that the ISFA will have to get involved. I’d guess that negotiating with an Illinois state department will slow things down.