Soxbadger

I disagree that its grounds for termination. Im not saying that morally Paterno shouldnt have done more. Im not saying that he wont go to hell if he knew and failed. Im just saying that its hard to fire a guy for failing to call the police, when he reported it to his supervisor, and the supervisor failed to take the appropriate response. I get that his supervisor is being fired, but I think that the blame needs to be at the top, and I think Penn State needs to be severely punished. Right now Penn State is getting away with this, because everyone is so focused on Paterno. Penn State let this happen, why are we not trying to destroy the school? I just dont understand.

Iamshack, Theyd definitely settle, and probably pay him more than hes owed to keep it confidential. He reported it to the President.

Balta, How do you know that? What if the real truth is McQuery told Paterno, "I saw Sandusky wrestling with a little boy, but it didnt seem to be a big deal at all, thats why I didnt call the police." Should Paterno have called the police? Im just saying without knowing what happened its hard to determine what his actions should have been. Everyone is acting like he absolutely knew Sandusky was raping kids. That just isnt supported by the facts (as of today).

Balta, With the benefit of hindsight is the key term in Paterno's statement. Basically he is saying that had he known more, he would have done more. Now he could be flat out lying, I just have yet to see any evidence to suggest it. Its just way to early in the investigation.

Ive never said that. Ive merely said that you are taking 1 witness (who in my opinion is the main culprit) word, over 3 other witnesses. Thats not a really good place to start, especially because McQuery is the one who saw a crime and failed to report.

Rock, They have 1 witness to what Paterno was told. Dont try and misconstrue the facts. The argument isnt about what Sandusky did or didnt do, its about what did McQuery tell Paterno. The only relevant facts are what did Paterno know, and based on what he knew, what should he have done. No one else was in the room with McQuery or Paterno, so there is no one else to support McQuery's testimony. It doesnt matter if 9million people say Sandusky raped them, if not one of them say Paterno saw or knew it happened.

The grand jury report is hearsay and is nothing more than a lawyer spinning testimony in the most favorable light to their position. Rock, And guilty of covering this up. You keep saying Paterno was part of a cover up, that would be guilty of something. Im not talking criminal law here, Paterno wont be convicted, its not even an issue. I just assume that most of us in America would like the chance to tell our side of a story and respond to allegations, before everyone takes them as true. Unfortunately in this case Paterno is 84, and he just doesnt have the mental facilities to fight back. In my experience, there is always 2 sides to every story and neither party is ever 100% right. Usually the truth lies some where in between.

SS2k, I know I am, I really should stop posting. But there is a part of me that believes if just 1 person can see that Paterno deserves the chance to defend himself before we proclaim him guilty, than it was worth it. I truly believe that we as a society must fight for "innocent until proven guilty", because it is so easy to just call people guilty. You dont think its easier for me to sit here and say "Screw Paterno he should rot in hell" Of course it is, but the easy road isnt always the right road.

Kyle, When the facts come out, I will then make an informed decision. Right now Im not saying Paterno should or should not be fired, just we need more information about his role.

Iamshack, Im not arguing Paterno shouldnt be fired. Im arguing that Paterno at least deserves a chance to respond to this, before hes made out to be a monster by everyone. Maybe he is a monster, maybe its worse than what we even imagine. But its god damn America, and he deserves the chance to tell his story, before everyone proclaims him guilty. Its not about pimping legal knowledge, its about how screwed the media makes our system.

Kyle, Have you read the testimony? That is a serious question, because Ive been asking for 2 days to be linked to the transcript and so far no one has. Max, Youre correct I dont know. But I have yet to hear that Paterno was called in by the trustees to give his account. Which would seemingly be the first thing Id do if something like this happened regarding an employee of 50 years.

If Paterno was part of any cover up, not only should he be fired, he should be prosecuted criminally. The only argument Im making, is its way to early to tell right now what exactly happened.

Mac, We dont know what Paterno was told. He has yet to be given a chance to say what he was told. All I am saying is that Paterno at least deserves a chance to give his side of the story and why he took those actions, before we rush to judgment. Im not saying that at the end of the fact finding I wont agree he should be fired, Im just saying that we dont have all the facts, so how can we be sure?

No Kyle, thats what Mcquery says today. You dont know its true, for all we know McQuery told Paterno "Its not a big deal" and is now covering his own ass. Everyone just wants to jump at the worst possible story, but Ive yet to see the transcript of McQuerys testimony. Has anyone here seen the transcript? Because the Complaint is not testimony.

Husker, Paterno isnt the president, the President could have banned Sandusky. The President did further interviews with the GA and then did nothing. Paterno is a football coach, his job is to report the action and let the appropriate people handle it. Correct me if Im wrong, but in 2002 Sandusky was not even part of Paterno's staff?

Kyle, My guess is that when mcquery went to Paterno, he told him that he saw something strange, but he wasnt exactly sure what it is. My next guess is that as this investigation began to blow up, Mcquery changed his story to protect his ass. If you notice, he hasnt been fired, even though he was arguably the first line of defense and an eye witness. Milkman, You do know in a grand jury, you dont get to cross examine the witness, right? That is how you attack credibility. If I go in a grand jury and make up a story that I saw you raping kids, Im going to sound extremely credible. It doesnt mean its true, because when your attorney gets to cross me in the trial, hell tear me apart.

bmags, A child molester was running rampant on PSU campus. Joe Pa reported it to PSU. The people who are responsible are PSU, if you are going to fire Paterno, you need to burn that school to the ground as well. The real criminals are the President etc, the ones who had a duty to report but failed to report. Had they simply followed the law, we arent here today. As for a PR class, this is the most brilliant PR move by PSU. They fire a coach who they already wanted to get rid of, and that means they made the right decision? What about the fact they knew about this for months (if not years) and didnt terminate Paterno? They still havent terminated the GA. Its entirely a PR move. And the sad part is that media is eating it up. They arent asking the hard questions, HOW DID PSU LET THIS HAPPEN? Steve, Firing Paterno, not firing Paterno, wont make any difference for the children. You have to compartmentalize if you want to deal with terrible things. You want to save children, burn down PSU. Show every other school in the nation that if your President fails to follow the law, that the school goes down with the ship. That will change things. Paterno being fired changes nothing. I have yet to hear why PSU shouldnt be taking the brunt of the blame here. So I guess maybe Im more a champion for the innocents than you are, because I want there to be real justice, for the true criminals. I dont care about scapegoats, that is just to obscure the real truth there. And that truth is that Penn State primarily failed these children, not Joe Paterno.

It doesnt matter, if Paterno is being fired for not reporting it to the police (the only allegation any of you who support his firing have yet to make), then McQuery should have been terminated months, if not years ago. The simple fact is that no one was going to get fired if the media didnt paint Paterno out as some monster. The facts, well, they are entirely unclear. Joe Pa, President and everyone else say McQuery didnt tell them specifics and never once mentioned rape. McQuery says otherwise. Who is more believable? Id say Patenro and Co. If some one sees a rape that is so terrible, they report it to the police. They dont go home, call their dad, and then tell the coach. And Milkman, expect me to always defend people who are merely accused of a crime, because accusations are not facts, grand juries are nothing more than a dog and pony show. I have yet to see the transcript, if anyone could find it that would be great, but this story is going to dramatically change (imo) as we approach the real trials. Its also important to note, that Paterno's role in this trial, was to merely show that he properly reported it to his supervisors, and his supervisors violated Penn law. Most people generally do not get in trouble or fired when they follow protocol and another person breaks the law. If anyone thinks Paterno being destroyed will make people report more child molesting cases, I believe you are wrong. The simple fact that I take from this,is had Paterno completely dismissed it and lied, we wouldnt be here today. Its just as simple as: "McQuery never told me anything, I had no idea, if McQuery saw a rape, why didnt he call the police?" That simple response would have prevented Paterno from ever getting in any trouble. But since the guy actually reported it like he was supposed to, hes now fired. Classic.

Milkman, Its pretty improbable that the BOT was in the dark about such a serious situation. Especially when people like Paterno start getting summoned to grand juries. They at least knew about it while the investigation was going on, so if they knew Paterno did not report it to the police 5 months ago, a year ago, 9 years ago, why are they only firing him now? The answer is because they want to diffuse the situation and most people are going to be satisfied with the sacrificial lamb, Paterno. No one at PSU wants the real question to be asked, How did you let this happen. How could Penn State not know what is going on, how could they have so little control that they dont even know about an ex coach raping kids in a locker room. That is what should be the most troublesome. That all of these incidents occurred and PSU is basically taking the position only 3 people knew. That just cant be.

I dont believe that these incidents define what Joe Paterno has done for thousands of other people. If Paterno isnt a frail old man, this is treated completely differently. He just cant stand up for himself and the school is screwing him again. The first time they screwed him by not following the law and now they are screwing him by pretending that they are now concerned about an incident that happened 9 years ago. Once again PSU has known what Paterno did since 2002, if it was such a bad offense, why was he only fired now? This isnt news to PSU board of trustees, you dont think they were aware of the facts while the grand jury was going on?

Milkman, Paterno has a contract, The only reason Penn State can get away with this is Paterno already said hed retire and they know they know he wont fight it. Obviously I havent seen Joe's contract, but I suspect that there are pretty specific reasons for being terminated, and none of them include failing to call the police after reporting an incident to the school. Paterno is taking the fall for PSU, Im not sure why more people dont see this. PSU is the one who failed here.

Milkman, Ive looked it up, but thanks for the tip. If Paterno wasnt 84 at worst PSU would suspend him without pay pending an investigation into his actions. It doesnt matter anymore, but had Paterno's superiors followed the law, we wouldnt be having this conversation. It was the superiors who committed the criminal acts.

Rock, Reuben Carter spent how many years in jail. If people stop, people get railroaded. I may be right, I may be wrong, but I damn well am going to uncover every stone, go through every damn piece of evidence, before I ruin a guys life. I dont care if its the most heinous crime and the most unlikable victim, Im going to make sure that I damn well know everything. So tell me to stop, but remember that anyone can be falsely accused and that if no one is there to challenge the accusations, we will all be sorry. There is plenty of time to find out the facts, its not like Paterno coaching 4 more games is going to change the fact that the school let him coach for 9 years after the incident, entirely aware of the incident. It seems hypocritical that PSU only cares now that there is a firestorm of media. But none of its really relevant, this is about the simple fact that the American system has been so screwed up that people take dicta statements in an govt complaint as fact. (And dont worry I wont post to you again, I already had done this before you requested.)

Rock, What is he going to say? "I wish more kids got raped." If you find out that through your inaction someone got hurt, you are going to feel bad. That doesnt mean he deserves this.

Danman, It goes with if Paterno was 30 years younger. The guy just cant fight this, its so completely out of the guys character, and from the reports there is no allegations that Paterno failed to report some of the abuse. That would be where I think youd have to fire him, if he knew about things and didnt report it. But under Pennsylvania law, its the duty of the school to report once Paterno did. So there really is no reason for him to believe that another person in his school was going to break the law. If a teacher at a school tells a Principal that they think they see some one with drugs, the teacher then doesnt call the police to double check that the Principal properly investigated. It just stands to reason that there was a proper investigation done. Paterno was not even called to any other meetings.