ilsox7

QUOTE(White Sox Josh @ Jan 3, 2006 -> 08:31 PM) neither was I. I said it was the usual MSU hot streak and they would cool down once they played somebody. It just baffles me that any ND supporter I have encountered and talked about this subject with goes off and attacks me for my opinion about MSU. All of this when I have consistently said that ND, while not one of the top 6 or 7 teams in the country, is certainly one of the best 10 or 15 teams in the country. And that is an amazing turn around by Charlie and they should be thrilled their program is obviously headed in the right direction. Yet they refuse to even look at the facts when analyzing MSU.

QUOTE(Rex Hudler @ Jan 3, 2006 -> 08:08 PM) Watch a freakin game once rather than look at numbers on paper. It doesn't take anyone with much of a football IQ to see that Michigan State was very dangerous early one. They played well against Notre Dame, battled Michigan and stayed with Ohio State for the most part. All you have to do is actually watch the games to know that MSU was a MUCH different team late in the season. Like I said before, this ain't rocket science. I did watch the games and I was never too impressed with MSU. This is why I generally don't talk college sports on message boards...people get way too emotional about it and resort to telling people they are idiots when, in fact, they just cannot accept that there are many different opinions out there. As usual, no one can actually back-up the fact that MSU was good except by saying, "Watch them play some s***ty teams or see how they hung in a game with tOSU for a half." Well, I got news for ya, IU hung in with tOSU through 2 1/2 quarters and that don't mean s***. It's unfortunate that this cannot be a mature debate without resorting to implying people are stupid b/c they don't agree with you.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jan 3, 2006 -> 07:01 PM) We've been out-rebounded 33-22. With 2 big guys that just shouldn't happen. On the bright side, IU does have 4 people in double figures this game. Oh, and a 6 point lead with :42 left. Yep. Marco has been too sloppy for my liking as of late, but I think he will turn it around. Brown had 22 boards for Michigan tonight...that just cannot happen. This is the type of game I'd expect us to hold a lead of 12-15 the entire game, but we just couldn't pull away. I'm disappointed by that, but pleased the defense played well and we won. Next 3 games will show us a lot about this team and the Big Ten.

QUOTE(WHarris1 @ Jan 3, 2006 -> 06:59 PM) Eesh I closed it after I saw Marco's bucket + foul. Ok now it's over. Up 6 now with the ball and under 30 secs left. Robert Vaden was a momster in the 2nd half putting up 17 points in the half thus far. First half in this game was awful. Michigan couldn't make a shot and IU couldn't rebound to save their life. IU still hasn't rebounded well at all, but Vaden and the offense showed up some in the 2nd half. Overall, a win is a win (if we hold on), but the level of play needs to go up a notch or two by Saturday.

QUOTE(WHarris1 @ Jan 3, 2006 -> 06:57 PM) Ah ha. Still pretty quiet. IU basically has this one in the bag. Not so much. Only up 4 and we suck at free throws. We've had 6-7 opportunities to make this a 10+ point lead this game and have failed at pulling away.

QUOTE(WHarris1 @ Jan 3, 2006 -> 06:55 PM) It's like a library there. Winter Break.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jan 3, 2006 -> 06:41 PM) After a pair of Roderick Wilmont 3 pointers, Indiana is up 54-45 with 7:50 to play. Just cannot put them away. Back to 3 after Michigan runs off 6 quick points.

Now I see how we lost to Indiana State. Michigan out-rebounds IU 20-10 and 10-2 on the offensive boards. Not to mention that the offense mostly consisted of standing around, dribbling some, then forcing up a bad shot. Davis ought to rip these guys a new one at the half. Wait, that's Mike Davis we're talking about. Ugh. Wake up, fools!

QUOTE(greasywheels121 @ Jan 3, 2006 -> 10:00 AM) Wow...So IPFW beat Indiana State at their place. And the Big Ten kicks off tonight with Indiana playing host to Michigan! Pretty pathetic effort thus far by both teams. Michigan was shooting 19% through the first 13 minutes, yet IU could only get the lead to 7 b/c they are getting killedo n the boards and have no concept of how to run the offense. Currently a 2 point IU lead. Would be nice if someone other than DJ showed up the rest of the night.

QUOTE(Rex Hudler @ Jan 3, 2006 -> 06:09 AM) You just don't get it. Maybe the light will come on at some random point in the future, who knows, but I am not going to argue until I am blue in the face. Here's my question, and I mean it sincerely. I completely agree that a team can be playing better at one point in the season and then totally go in the tank, thus making what was once a not a bad loss look awful 2 months later. But what no one has had an answer for is why they think MSU was one of those teams. When you look at the facts, they had not played anyone near respectable. They had dominated 2 pretty awful teams. If they had throttled at least 1 decent team, I could see the argument. But how is this any different than, say, a college basketball team beating the crap out of Chicago State and NIU and claiming they were a good team b/c they looked good against two horrid opponents? That's the argument I have made and I have yet to see an answer that satisfies it. The only thing I keep getting is, "Well, they looked good doing it." My response is, "I sure as hell hope they did b/c those teams sucked." Here are the scores from their games this year: Beat Kent State (1-10) 49-14 Beat Hawaii (5-7) 42-14 Beat ND (9-2) 44-41 Lost to Michigan (7-4) 34-31 Lost to tOSU (9-2) 35-24 Lost to NU (7-4) 49-14 Beat IU (4-7) 46-15 Lost to Purdue (5-6) 28-21 Lost to Minnesota (7-4) 41-18 Lost to PSU (10-1) 31-22 Like I said, if they had beaten a decent team or two before or after ND, I could see the argument that they were simply playing better and something happened to send them on a horrific streak the last part of the season. But I just don't see that argument.

QUOTE(Rex Hudler @ Jan 3, 2006 -> 12:39 AM) So BCS aside, what team should have been in the game instead of Notre Dame? Oregon? They didn't do anything to prove that point. Auburn? They didn't help their cause today either? It's tough to say "BCS aside" b/c the BCS changes the picture entirely. However, before ND qualified automatically, I argued that Oregon should get the bid over ND. However, I also argued that if you put the teams on the same field, ND wins. But when you look at the entire season, I felt Oregon did more than ND to garner a bid. My logic was both teams lost to USC. ND gave them a much much better game than Oregon did. However, Oregon had no other blemishes on their record. ND had what I consider a major blemish to MSU. We obviously do not agree on how the MSU loss impacts ND's image. I look at MSU as a team that beat the s*** out of 4 crappy teams this year and beat a good ND team on the road. You view MSU as a quality team who went wrong somewhere (without any major injury) and thus went from a good team to a crappy team. I don't buy that argument and do not see any evidence that supports it. The reason I don't buy it is b/c in all my years of watching college football, I have seen scores of mediore or crappy teams schedule 2 or 3 cream puffs to beat up on before the conference season started. But that didn't mean those teams were good teams. It meant they played well against teams that barely belong in 1-A.

QUOTE(Rex Hudler @ Jan 3, 2006 -> 12:26 AM) We're just not going to agree on anything tonight. MSU was not a s***ty team when Notre Dame lost to them. MSU's season went downhill after they lost to Michigan, but if you know anything about football you would know MSU was playing damned good football early in the season. And calling Michigan mediocre doesn't fly either. While Michigan this year could not put teams away, they played everyone close including Ohio State. Hell they SHOULD have beaten OSU, but once again couldn't put them away. Notre Dame was not overrated (they weren't favored in this game). OSU was just better, period. They couldn't handle OSU's speed today and OSU played them very well defensively. Give OSU credit. Notre Dame had a nice season. It wasn't their fault that MSU tanked their season, that Michigan struggled to put teams away and that Tennessee sucked this year. Before everyone starts screaming that they didn't belong in this game, let's not forget that the two other teams most people felt could have deserved the bid instead both lost their bowl games (as favorites) too! Nope, we won't agree tonight. MSU was putting up big numbers against horrible teams. Before ND, MSU killed Hawaii and Kent. They then beat ND and UIUC and there only other win was against IU. I just don't consider killing Hawaii and Kent to be much of a barometer for a team. And Michigan was mediocre. They struggled (and lost) to bad teams and gave good teams a game. That makes for mediocrity, IMO. I give tOSU plenty of credit. They are one of the 5 best teams in the country. They also should have won tonight by 4 TD's. ND is a good team. But they did nothing to prove they are one of the best 6 or 7 teams in the country. Again, their biggest accomplishment this year was taking USC to the wire on their home field after a bye week. Sure, it's nice they proved they could stay on the same field with USC, but having to hang your hat on a loss is not the best thing in the world. The best ND result outside of that game was beating Michigan. It was very interesting to watch the WVU-Georgia game right after the tOSU-ND game. To me, it was obvious that was a game between two very good teams. I'd take both of those teams in a heartbeat over this edition of ND. And ND most definitely deserved to be in this game b/c by the rules of the BCS, they earned their spot. In the BCS, it's not about who is the best team. It is about who qualifies according to certain rules. Then, if an at-large spot is available, it's about who brings the most fans.

QUOTE(ChWRoCk2 @ Jan 3, 2006 -> 12:03 AM) Great game, although I think I liked Michigan and Nebraska a little better, your right WVU will be a force in the league the next couple years, Im really looking forward to the florida st and penn st game, something tells me that will be the best one yet. I like both so i really dont have a team to root for but I guess ill take florida st. The difference is the UM-Nebraska game involved two teams that suck. That WVU-Georgia game was two good games going at each other. Best game, with ease, thus far. And WVU opened a lot of eyes, including mine.

QUOTE(Wedge @ Jan 2, 2006 -> 11:09 PM) Hey, ND guy here. I don't think we were overrated, but I think OSU played a lot better than I expected them too. Anyways, congrats on a big win. After seeing that game, if I was an OSU fan I'd be very disappointed that my team wasn't playing USC for the title. Unfortunately, I believe a lot of the OSU players are going to the draft this year so I don't know if they'll be in a good position again next season. I think the reason most folks, including myself, think ND was overrated is b/c they simply did not beat anyone good. Their biggest accomplishment this season was arguably taking USC to the wire. That game came after the bye week, giving Charlie plenty of time to plan. By that logic, Fresno would also get a feather or two in their cap for giving USC a game. Outside of the USC game, ND lost to a s***ty MSU team and a very good tOSU team. Their best win came against a mediocre Michigan team. I give credit to both ND and Charlie as they were better than most expected and made great strides in the program. That said, I never viewed them as a top 5 team and I think tonight it was proven they were not a top 5 team.

QUOTE(WHarris1 @ Jan 2, 2006 -> 08:26 PM) Someone might wanna tell Georgia there is a game tonight. I love it. I hope WVU wins by 50. Good to see teams no one thought much of come out and look good. Thru at least the first 10 minutes.