spiderman
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Posts posted by spiderman
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Any optimism in the White Sox for next season has to be zapped at this point, right?
Getz says he does not like the team and then trades/signs players who will probably make the team worse under the guise of cutting payroll all the while why Reinsdorf says he wants to win in 2024.
It's pretty depressing to have this type of leadership.
Onwards to last place!
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6 minutes ago, SCCWS said:
It always sounds good on paper. We should not make any decisions though until we see it in person. We are quickly approaching the end of 2023 and soon the trucks will be gassed and ready for Arizona. We will soon start to see how the organization is moving forward or backwards.
What is sounding good on paper for what the White Sox have done to this point or are expected to be doing?
I think the direction of the organization is well known at this point.
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12 hours ago, caulfield12 said:
Capture the momentum of 100 losses with zero benefits from that level of ineptitude?
Who does he think is believing that nonsense?
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4 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:
They lost 101 last year and look worse. That’s before a Cease deal.
Sure, that's possible, but it's really hard to be that bad. The White Sox appear capable, but I would guess that they will be somewhere north of 90 losses, but probably not back to back 100 loss seasons. The roster does look very bad though so I don't rule out underestimating the bad here.
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30 minutes ago, greg775 said:
Maybe the Sox realize they actually need to keep Cease to avoid one of the worst records in baseball history. You gotta admit that pitching staff is really bad even with Cease. Without him, cmon do the Sox wanna win in the 40s to low 50s?
With our without Cease, this roster is brutal, but it's not going to lose 120 games. It's a 90-100 loss team.
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2 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:
We wouldn’t be trading Cease for money reasons though, so not sure what you’re getting at here.
We would be trading Cease for money reasons if they don't think they can resign him (and given the White Sox history, there is no reason to think that the White Sox would actually spend market value). Yes, they can argue that it's about flexibility and creating roster depth, addressing other positions, but any deal they make is likely to be primarily for minor league talent. This is not a trade you made, with Cease under control for 2 more years, if "speed is the of the essence".
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Are the White Sox really going to sign a pitcher to a 5 year deal?
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Why would the White Sox want his input on anything? When he was younger and the game was different, fine....
Different times.
The dude was falling asleep in the dugout and has medical issues.
Concerning and not helpful that every decision maker on the White Sox is (or feel they have to) acknowledging the advice and access that he has.
Right across town, the Cubs are hiring what many would say is the best manager in baseball (or at least in the top of the best). Here, we have a 80 year old whose time has past in the ear of our decision makers on a team with no actual direction, shitty culture and cutting payroll. Who thinks this is a good idea other than Reinsdorf? What could go wrong?
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Let's be honest. Outside of a Robert, Cease, maybe a few other guys that people are hoping improve (like Vaughn), this roster is a garbage heap. It's a 95+ loss team.
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I would suspect that domino's will begin falling pretty quickly now . Where Cease falls in that order probably depends on the teams willing to spend $$$ on free agency vs. giving up prospects. He still may be on the backend unless a team steps up to the White Sox sooner.
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1 hour ago, poppysox said:
Grandal, Bummer, Kelley, Graveman, Lynn, Gio, and Anderson...all gone thank God!
Clevenger was OK and Hendriks didn't contribute.
DeJong/Mongomery, Lopez/new guy, Stassi/lee, Fedde are all better than who they replaced.
So far, I think Getz has done a good job of clearing the dead wood and improving the defense and chemistry until help arrives. New coaches and Bannister are also positives. Some health for Moncada, Eloy, Benintendi, etc. would help a lot. No way will this 2024 squad lose 100...especially when the offseason moves have been completed.
They cleared out the roster at the last trading deadline, let a few more players go (Anderson, Grandall, Bummer, Hendricks, Andrus, Clevinger) and have replaced them with Triple A depth. Maybe it's a bridge in a bad division to 2025, but what does that even mean? Are we really expecting significant talent from the minors to come up? Are they going to spend on free agents? It's hard to build anything sustainable without doing both.
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12 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:
Yea, I don't think they care about being competitive either. They care about the illusion of it, but not actually putting together a team that can win 82 or so games in order to satisfy some measure of "competitive". If they were trying to be competitive they would be adding 30 million in payroll and wouldn't be trying to trade Cease.
They are trying to cut payroll and do some half assed "rebuild" that has like a .1% chance of working while paying lip service to "competitive".
I think they believe that being around .500 will mean they are competitive and in the AL Central, that may be true most years. So, I think they can/will claim they want to compete, but that must be taken into context that they probably don't need to win 90 games to be competitive, and, if things bring right, can "compete" in the AL Central.
Agreed with your points though. This off-season, they are cutting payroll. They are trying to re-tool vs. rebuild, but these are not the moves a team that wants to win will make. Trading an ace with 2 years left only makes sense if you don't want to pay him. If you don't want to pay him, why would anyone think they are going to spend to actually compete? This will likely continue to be some patch-work roster.
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They aren't willing to spend on any significant free agents OR their own talent so they are capped already to only be competitive as long as their minor league system produces talent on a consistent basis. They use free agency to complement their roster, but the chances of adding impact talent is low.
They are cutting payroll right now and the roster looks awful on paper.
They probably won't fully rebuild, but will do some middling where they improve the defense, patch together a pitching staff and try to hang around in the AL Central.
There is no desire to win, it's more about being competitive.
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3 minutes ago, fathom said:
This is what happens when your manager has no presence, so the front office has to bring in “leaders”
Is Merriweather considered to be a leader?
Looking forward to Bernstein and Holmes making ridiculous comments about this move (if they sign him) because he didn't get vaccinated.
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1 hour ago, Sleepy Harold said:
Whit also hasn't been lg avg in OPS+ in four of the last five seasons
I don't understand moves like this. Is Getz aware of the steaming pile of pooh that is the starting rotation/bullpen? The holes at C, 2B, SS, 3B, LF, RF and DH? Even if you think Moncada and Jiminez play better, this team is awful on paper. Hard to see them competing and makes little sense to be overpaying (or spending at all) on 2B who haven't been at league average in OPS+ in recent years.
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Anyone see what Passan wrote about on ESPN+ this morning regarding Cease? Assuming it's just that the White Sox are engaged in trade talks with a few teams, but anything new?
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Yeah, I guess I don't understand the point of trading Cease to fill holes. If you're going to trade Cease, which seems like the likely outcome, they need to focus on getting a team to move 3 of their top prospects. Why do we care about trading for a 2B who isn't going to make much of a difference on a team that would likely lose 90+ games? Trading Cease means you are rebuilding. They may not want to use that word, but if they want to scare off the remaining fanbase, trade him for major league talent that just fills holes to "shake things up".
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If the White Sox are improving their infield defense, even with the lack of offense, is this the sign of a rebuild or a retooling?
Same on Bummer...they decide to improve the defense now after they trade him, but they added at least one starting pitcher (we know they aren't going to spend on aby significant free agent) and add a few spare parts (including that infield defense) .
Saying that, if they trade Cease and acquire 2 players who they expect to be part of the team for next year (say another starter and a RF), add a few more stop gap free agents for cheap....one more starter, 2 relievers another 2B....
Who is the team to beat in this division and can the White Sox compete with some mish mash of stopgaps?
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They have legitimate holes in at least 3 starting pitching spots, probably 2-3 reliable relievers are needed and then we're needing a catcher, 2B, SS and RF - that's not even addressing adding actual impact players as much as just filling holes.
Can they bargain shop on a few of these positions? That's probably what we're looking at if they don't want to compete in the market for top talent.
It's hard though to see them not moving Cease for 2-3 top minor league players who they think can contribute within the next year or so and help keep their payroll down.
I really don't see Jiminez being back either. He's a good hitter, but if he can't play a position and they are stressing defense....the only thing that can save him is his contract being more team friendly. Saying that, too many injuries.
I like the concept of having players play more than one position to win games. Moncada is an excellent 3B, but if they were to sign someone who can play 3B/SS, let's consider what helps the team win day to day.
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2 hours ago, Bob Sacamano said:
You continue to say this without having any knowledge these guys were even available. It's kinda nauseating.
I'm not sure which players were available or not, but the bottom line is that the White Sox have depended on minor league talent playing RF/2B in the middle of their supposed window for WS contention.
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18 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:
Getz said there are no untouchables. I can’t even fathom what it would take to deal him away and how many teams actually have the prospect currency to get a deal done. But at minimum you listen and see if another team is willing to do something stupid, although there are only so many Preller’s out there willing to pay a significant prospect price to get true impact talent.
You would have to receive at least 3 top 100 prospects (at least two in the top 30 or so).
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3 hours ago, Harry Chappas said:
I missed their follow up coverage on Clevenger when the MLB cleared him.
They are back to calling Clevenger names and said that MLB only cleared him because the wife/girlfriend only wanted him to get help (which he voluntarily agreed to do), but they are not shy in calling him a horrible person,e etc.
I still think their main issue with him is that he broke Covid rules. They keep suggesting that, even outside of the abuse accusations, that they should have known what a bad teammate/person he was, and this was well known, but they can only point to him breaking covid protocol in 2020; they have never mentioned what else would make him a bad teammate.
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On 8/7/2023 at 2:33 PM, flavum said:
Grandal wasn’t in the lineup the day before the break, so he wanted to leave. Grandal went in the clubhouse. TA said he’d take him to the airport himself. Grandal slapped TA across the face. TA goes 0-5x
I only heard this briefly mentioned on the Score, but did the producer who reported this have more than 1 source? Have any other reporters independently verified that this happened?
I'm not suggesting it didn't happen, but I would question it "Journalistic standards" 🤣 were not folloowed, especially by that station.
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On 7/24/2023 at 11:51 AM, baseballgalaly said:
Obviously cleaning house in the FO should be the first priority, but how should they move forward from here? I'm at a loss.
They are more likely to re-shuffle the roster than a total rebuild, maybe free up some money, add some cheaper talent who can give them "flexibility" for next year's roster and their budget. It's hard to seem them going full in though on another rebuild.
Without knowing their budget, and how much money they have next off-season, they need to address C, 2B (probably will be in-house), SS (probably Tim Anderson), 3B (probably Moncada with his contract), RF (probably Colas)....but you can see here already that they are probably still going to bring back most of the roster.
Assuming they trade Giolito and/or don't bring him back next season, Lynn/Clevinger are also not likely to come back and it's hard to depend on Crochet or Kopech so they are Cease with a lot of questions. Any trades made before the deadline will probably bring back 1-2 backend of the rotation options for next season and/or bullpen arms assuming they trade 2-3 guys from the current roster.
Lots of holes, probably not much money to go spending to fill it, and little help from the minors.
This team is in a state of mediocrity.
All kinds of Pedro Philosophy..."Reflect to Learn"
in Pale Hose Talk
Posted
They have to fire him at some point soon.
Getz gave him a horrible roster, but Pedro will be the first fall guy
Pedro is in over his head, but what a crap sandwich this team is.
Almost automatic outs every day at C, 1B, 2B, SS, 3B and LF.
A minor league starting rotation.
A make shift bullpen
Getz should also be fired, but that would require Reinsdorf to admit a mistake