phillychuck

QUOTE(AirScott @ Jul 28, 2007 -> 12:03 PM) And I haven't seen much of Chase Utley these season, but I really don't remember him as Gold Glove-caliber. Probably the second best defensive 2B in the NL, behind Orlando Hudson of the D'Backs. He has great range, turns the DP well, and is consistent. He's not as naturally quick as Hudson, who has unbelievable range, and Hudson seems to get to more pop-ups than Utley, too. Utley might win the GG with his bat one year (as players sometimes do--see Bobby Abreu), but his defense is up to the award.

Additionally, most of the posters here seem to think Iguchi is a very bad defensive 2B. Why is that? Defensive UZR (ultimate zone rating, available through tangotiger's awesome web site) has him at +8 runs per 150 games, close to Utley's +13, which is gold-glove level. Link to UZR article which has a link to all UZR ratings: http://www.insidethebook.com/ee/index.php/...le/updated_uzr/

From a phlllies fan: I'm surprised Iguchi didn't bring a bit better return since the Mets were eager to obtain him as well, reportedly anyway. If the Mets have something in place for Loretta then it's a different story--not many other teams are interested in a 2B at this point. Dubee has been somewhat underutilized at Lakewood this year, and with the Sox moving him into their rotation at Kannapolis you might see him develop a bit. He is what he is, though--a C-level prospect who some people like as a sleeper whose K/IP ratio promises some future. I think the Phils would have been willing to trade the Lakewood CF, Quentin Berry, whom I would have rather obtained if I were the Sox. Phils are hip-deep in CFs at almost every level because they like to draft speed and defense, not power. We're actually speculating that Williams felt guilty about pawning off an injured Freddy Garcia on the Phils and made this trade out of some feelings of guilt...

I'd like to thank all you guys for posting over at philliesphans. It's great to hear what intelligent fans of other teams think about trades. No trolls at all, my compliments to the quality of your posters. I think the folks who call it a portential win-win where nether GM gave up anything he couldn't replace are right on the mark. It will be very interesting for us to see if Rowand gets flipped for quality starting pitching, which we could use, or if Michaels or Victorino hits the road. Many of us would be happy rotating five outfielders (Abreu, Burrell, Rowand, Victorino, Michaels) if one of them could help take RH first-base ABs. Thanks again, and keep stopping by!

You guys will love Thome--he's as healthy as any 35 year old baseball player can be. The elbow problem was successfully corrected in surgery, and the back issues have been corrected quickly in-season in the past, and may not even resurface considering the aggressive approach he's taken to rehab. I'll take him back if you guys don't wnat him...but we get to keep the lefties!

Too soon to tell--we mat be after Pavano from the Yanks, or Gillick may not like Victorino, our top CF prospect.

My analysis from the Phils' perspective: OK, I like the trade, but mostly because of the two pitchers. I always get a sinking feeling, though, when a team is willing to trade A and AA pitchers--I figure they know them best, and they've decided they're not going to be successful in the majors, that AAA or ML hitters are going to figure them out, or they have delivery flaws that will likely lead to injuries. Gonzalez is someone I remember from the pre-draft issues, and I have to admit that if Haigwood were in the Phils system, his performance stats would have me screaming about him being underrated. Rowand would be a fine CF if he plays about halfway between his 2004 and 2005 years--I'll take .290/.345/.466 for an 811 OPS from a good defensive CF. If he can stop hitting ground balls so frequently (which he might if he gets away from Ozzie Guillen) he may actually be a bit better than that. He's a very good defensive player from observation (I haven't seen his defensive stats)--a guy who has decent speed and goes hard all the time for balls. He wouldn't be a bad #2 hitter if he takes just a few more walks, but he probably fits best in the 6 hole. My only major regrets regarding this trade are that 1. I'll miss Jim Thome --as they say, "Jim, we hardly knew ye." and 2. I was really hoping Victorino would get a legit shot at starting in CF. I suspect that Rowand's rep as a clutch, clubhouse-leader type secures the job for him. It's also going to cut Michaels' playing time unless he finds a first-baseman's glove somewhere. If Gillick flips one of the CFs for a decent starter, or replaces or supplements Bell as a regular, or finds value and a replacement for Lieby I'll begin to get giddy...

We'd love to hear what you WSox fans have to say about Rowand, Gonzalez, and Haigwood over at http://www.philliesphans.com/phorum/viewforum.php?f=1 . From our perspective, we hate losing probably the classiest guy in baseball and a prototypical LH power bat, but either he or Howard had to be traded, and the salary issue made Thome the expendable one. Something you guys may not have heard is that Thome's rehab regimen has been highly successful--reportedly, he's in the best shape he's been in since his mid-20s. Also, his elbow injury was related to throwing, something he may not have to do much in the AL. We hope he hits 50 HRs for you and we see you in the series. Is Rowand more likely to perform at his 2004 levels, or his 2005 ones? Did he hit many more Groundballs because Ozzie wanted him to, or was it his own idea, or simply a swing mechanics issue? We understand pretty much everyone likes Gonzalez, but Haigwood's numbers are unreal, and he's closer to the majors--is he the real thing? Congrats on a well deserved World Series win.