JUSTgottaBELIEVE

Heyward pinch hitting for Russell? Yikes that's embarrassing for Russell

QUOTE (Black_Jack29 @ Oct 18, 2016 -> 09:26 PM) Yeah, you could use Kershaw with a pitch count and Urias in long relief in Game 5. Urias is starting tomorrow.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Oct 18, 2016 -> 09:10 PM) So is Arrieta still an ace? He's been pretty mediocre for five months now. Not sure. All I know is the timing of his downfall was rather suspicious. https://mobile.twitter.com/DOBrienAJC/statu...%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

QUOTE (2005thxfrthmmrs @ Oct 18, 2016 -> 03:15 PM) Based on what? I'd debate that. Kluber is one of the best in the game right now, but there is a huge drop off after him. Kluber, Bauer and Tomlin is the worst trio out of all PO teams this year, and it's not that close. The latter two were also horrific post ASB and suddenly caught second wind in the postseason. Did you see the Royals staff last year? What about Cueto, Volquez, Ventura, Guthrie, Duffy was so exciting? During the regular season those guys had ERAs with the Royals of 4.76, 3.55, 4.08, 5.95, and 4.08 respectively. That's average at best.

QUOTE (Black_Jack29 @ Oct 18, 2016 -> 01:30 PM) That sounds about right. You said 3-4 years, and I think that's too long. Neither of those guys are going to spend appreciable time in AAA. Given that the Sox aren't nuking the team and doing a full rebuild, I think that they need to target 2019 as their expected date of competitiveness and rebuild/retool their team around that time frame. That would mean going forward with Q, Rodon, Fulmer, Eaton, Anderson, Jones, etc. And they should strongly consider either signing Frazier to a four-year deal or Abreu to an extension. 3-4 years factors in some growing pains at the big league level. I would expect that to occur in 2019/2020 during their first couple years in the big leagues. I generally agree with the outlook/forecast of the semi-rebuild (if they were to go that route), which is part of the reason I feel JBJ has no place in this plan since he's a free agent after the 2020 season.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 18, 2016 -> 01:18 PM) Then the Sox walk away from the deal. If they aren't willing to pay up, there are better deals out there to be had. Agreed, which is why I think he stays put this offseason and they try to build around him through free agency and lesser trades.

QUOTE (Black_Jack29 @ Oct 18, 2016 -> 01:17 PM) More like two years away Weren't they both in A ball this year? I don't see them contributing to the big league club until 2019 (two more seasons in the minors).

QUOTE (iamshack @ Oct 18, 2016 -> 01:16 PM) See, that is where I think Boston will beg to differ. If he truly is a 5-6 WAR player, that sure sounds like the centerpiece to me. Yup. My point exactly. He is a centerpiece. I think they view him on equal footing with Moncada and Ben and are only willing to give up one of those three rather than two like many on here assume.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 18, 2016 -> 01:13 PM) I don't think JBJ would be the centerpiece. I think he is a piece. You have to get a guy like Moncada and a lot of others to make this work. But I think that's the whole problem. It sounds like the White Sox requested JBJ, Moncada/Ben, plus some and the Red Sox are saying it's only one of those three plus some.

QUOTE (bmags @ Oct 18, 2016 -> 01:08 PM) He's very cheap because he's been bad for a while and is older. Sox don't need "good enough". We've been doing the "We had -1 war in CF, even getting *Average* production will be a big improvement!" for 3 years now. We need all stars, multiple. But to choose between different options i'd be through the moon getting JBJ if the other option was Carlos Gomez. It's not a 1 for 1 comparison. Acquiring JBJ comes at the expense of Chris Sale and guys like Devers, Kopech, etc. are 3 or 4 years away (at best) from contributing to the big league team in a meaningful way. JBJ is gone by then, so what's the point? Gomez costs nothing. Well not nothing exactly, but probably a contract similar to what the Sox gave Jackson last offseason. If you trade Sale, you have to build it around guys like Moncada and Ben that contribute immediately to the big league roster unless you are going burn it down full scale rebuild, which is simply not realistic under this management.

QUOTE (Dunt @ Oct 18, 2016 -> 12:40 PM) Ya, even if he puts up at ~.720 OPS, that's still about a 5 win replacement. Having him and Eaton in the same OF makes that OF defense damn near elite. Even though he had a terrible year, I'd rather take a flier on Carlos Gomez than request JBJ as the primary return piece in a Sale trade. If Moncada or Ben aren't included, it's an absolute failure of a trade IMO even with JBJ and other well-regarded Red Sox prospects. I'll be pissed if they trade Sale for a package of JBJ, Devers, and Kopech plus lower level prospects or something similar. Despite a poor season offensively, Gomez still managed an fWAR of 0.9 over 118 games and can be had for VERY cheap this offseason.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Oct 18, 2016 -> 08:48 AM) Tomlin and Bauer aren't any worse than any of the Royals SP from last year. I've been saying it since August. This Indians team reminds me more and more of the 2014/2015 Royals. They always appear to be overachieving because they win primarily with excellent pitching/defense and timely hitting plus have very little name recognition (though Lindor and Miller are quickly becoming household names and rightfully so). Rather quietly they have had the second best record in baseball since May 1 (only 0.5 game worse than the Cubs including playoffs).

QUOTE (shysocks @ Oct 18, 2016 -> 08:56 AM) He's insane. I haven't read this entire thread so maybe somebody has already suggested this, but he'd have to be named LCS MVP right now, wouldn't he? PS: Just looked up the last time a reliever won an LCS MVP award, and it was Koji Uehara in 2013. I thought I was making some mindblowing observation over here. Uehara was excellent that postseason and that series in particular but not as dominant as Miller. It's even more impressive that Miller can come in at any time, pitch multiple innings, and it has no negative effect on his performance. A lot of relievers struggle when you put them in at different situations within a game, many are very regimented in their routine.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Oct 17, 2016 -> 11:49 PM) Blue Jays are just in a funk with the bats. Cleveland pitchers outside of Miller, Kluber, and Allen aren't even that good. But is just mere coincidence that they did this to the Red Sox as well? Good pitching has a way of creating slumps.

QUOTE (pettie4sox @ Oct 17, 2016 -> 10:42 PM) indeed, sans the browns of course =P Well yea that goes without saying. They are forever hopeless and expected to be terrible every season

One hell of a year for Cleveland sports fans. When it rains it pours

Andrew Miller This Series: 17 batters faced 15 outs 13 strikeouts. So far this is by far the most dominant performance for a reliever in postseason history

QUOTE (pettie4sox @ Oct 17, 2016 -> 09:53 PM) everything is falling the indians way Well the curse is broken now so...a lineup full of hall of famers couldn't win a World Series in the 90s but a team that everyone counted dead before the playoffs even started has a great opportunity to do it. That's baseball

The Indians have only trailed for one inning the entire postseason. They trailed 1-0 after the first inning of game 1 vs Boston but then tied it in the second inning and haven't trailed since. They are on an unprecedented run so far this postseason.

A potential Lester vs Kershaw Game 5 matchup in a 2-2 tied series would be really interesting.

QUOTE (SoxAce @ Oct 16, 2016 -> 09:59 PM) Still can't believe Maddon still has Rizzo at the 3 spot, but keep putting him there. He's been awful. Really aside from Bryant, Zobrist, and Baez the Cubs offense has not hit well this postseason. Their pitching has been better than last year though so that's overshadowed the offensive struggles.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Oct 16, 2016 -> 09:57 PM) That might have been the worst strike call I have ever seen. Best of 5 series now, Dodgers had to win the Kershaw starts. Yep and the Cubs have to win the Lester starts because the rest of the games are near toss ups.

QUOTE (Green Line @ Oct 16, 2016 -> 09:38 PM) I feel like there is a 0% chance the Cubs go quitely in the 9th, and a good chance they walk it off. Hope im wrong but this game has that feeling to it. Wrong. Don't worry I was wrong too. I didn't like Jansen for a two inning save but he was lights out.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Oct 16, 2016 -> 09:32 PM) Only thing I can think of is to try and keep him fresh for a game 5 or 6. This is a good point and worth noting. Probably trying to keep him relatively fresh for game 5.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Oct 16, 2016 -> 09:29 PM) Kershaw is at 84 pitches, why would you not give him the 8th and hopefully the 9th? I have no clue. It's not the 8th I'm worried about, it's the 9th.