beck72

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jan 1, 2006 -> 06:34 PM) I think Kenny (the important one in all thise) realizes that these skills that you mention aren't nearly as valuable as what Anderson can bring to the table -- power and great defense. People complained about Rowand not being a useful player last year. He put up 19 WS to Taveras' 13. So, let's see. We'd lose out on defense, offense, but hey -- we'd get some more speed and bunting! Yeah! Dick Allen was right in saying that these players are pretty freely available. Hell, to an extent, the Sox just non-tendered the same type of player in Willie Harris... We'll all see what KW realizes by spring training. As far as "losing out" on offense and defense, are you saying BA will do better than Taveras in both categories? BA may eventually better Taveras. But certainly not in 2006 --probably in SLG. Defensively, all I've heard are positives about Taveras. So I'm not sure what your point is. And no one is saying that BA is being given up on. My point is Taveras might not be a bad pickup, along with a pitcher or two for Jose.

QUOTE(Felix @ Jan 1, 2006 -> 03:51 PM) But even if you look at minor league numbers, Brian Anderson had a higher carrer minor league average, on-base percentage, and slugging percentage, and looking at Taveras' minor league numbers, he's never been a guy who gets XBH. Will Anderson hit for the .291 that Taveras did his rookie yr, as well as give the sox the skills needed in a #2 type/ leadoff hitter [bunting, SB, infield hits, etc] that Taveras will likely improve upon? No. And Taveras had a higher OBP than BA did in the minors. Esp the last 3 full yrs. And he skipped AAA. He likely would have improved his ML numbers if he was in AAA for 2005.

QUOTE(Felix @ Jan 1, 2006 -> 03:39 PM) I asked the question as well, what would happen if either Anderson, Pods or Dye got hurt? Would the sox and us fans want to see Joe B as an everyday player? Right now that would be the plan. Getting Taveras would keep Anderson as the first guy called up to take one of those guys places. He'd likely start in AAA, with Joe B the 4th OFer

QUOTE(Felix @ Jan 1, 2006 -> 03:39 PM) So, you would want a guy who hits .330/.350/.355 (not sure if those are exactly right, but they are close) while hitting at one of the biggest hitters parks in the league, but then hits .250/.270/.275 (again, they might be a bit off) everywhere else? Since USCF is not as much of a hitting park as Minute Maid Park (IIRC), his numbers are bound to drop from how they were last year at home, which will make his overall numbers look even worse than they already are. Just like in the Pierre to Sox discussion awhile ago, we don't need him. He's Scott Podsednik v2, except worse. We already have our fast guy who doesn't hit for much power. We don't need another. And as posted before, here are the ZiPS projections: Name P AVG OBP SLG G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB K SB CS Anderson cf .263 .323 .425 130 464 68 122 21 3 16 57 38 113 6 3 Taveras cf .293 .334 .342 148 552 83 162 12 3 3 41 28 96 37 20 Assuming these are close (I know, they might not be), I guess the question is, are you willing to give up the .10 in OBP for a ton of extra slugging? Personally, I couldn't care less what your role is on a team, but if you have almost 600 at-bats, and only 20 extra base hits (while being a speedy guy, so having an advantage of getting around the bases quickly), you aren't a good player. I just think Taveras has more skills and upside than people give him credit for. He'd be a decent pick up along with another very good pitcher for a one yr rental in Jose. His skills seems to match up better with what Ozzie wants, judging by the Young and Rowand trades, and Ozzie's words

QUOTE(YASNY @ Jan 1, 2006 -> 03:34 PM) To get Contreras. I meant to replace him with who. But I found it. Probably Luke Scott to go in the OF. Hunter Pence is also a yr or two away http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/Stats...p.php?id=432928

QUOTE(JimH @ Jan 1, 2006 -> 02:42 PM) Every team in the league wants guy like this. He plays a very good CF, can run, is young, etc. He's not the 4th OF you're portraying him to be, he is better than that. The question then becomes, if Willy has the skills set and upside that he seems to have, why would Houston give him up?

QUOTE(Felix @ Jan 1, 2006 -> 02:42 PM) So again, how is having a .325 OBP (and .282 OBP on the road) a great season? And I don't really care what your role is on a team, but to have only 20 XBH (13 being doubles) throughout the ENTIRE year (nearly 600 at bats) while playing in one of the biggest hitters parks in the league, is downright pathetic. Hell, even Podsednik had 29, and he didn't hit anything but doubles (and one triple). Taveras having the rookie yr he did is a very good season [not great, but very good]. Looking at his track record in the minors, he's done and could possibly give the sox what they have been said to be looking for [at least Ozzie]---speed, OBP, hit for avg, good defense, ability to hit near or at the top of the order. As far as looking at the warts on Cindy crawford's face [the poor splits on the road, avg. vs one handed pitchers, etc] --you can always find faults with a guy. Taveras does have skills. More than I thought after looking at him a little closer

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jan 1, 2006 -> 12:19 PM) Just looking at Taveras again, and against righties in 2005 he had splits of .312/.344/.351 while against lefties he only had splits of .233/.272/.314. So there is the option of platooning him, however Anderson didn't do well against lefties in his brief time up, but remember, that is WAY too short of a sample size to go on. Taveras's bad away splits though .252/.282/.289 are a bit worrying to say the least though. I'd expect his splits to be worse vs RHP, which they weren't. Yet the sample size of one yr is small for a lot of his stats/splits, Taveras in his 2nd yr should improve. Whether that's enough to trade for him, who knows. that's what the sox scouts and coaching staff get paid to find out.

QUOTE(VAfan @ Dec 31, 2005 -> 08:56 PM) It is nice to see some people on Soxtalk don't really care for all the pointless personal bashing that seems to have taken over this site. It wasn't here when I first joined, and it has grown rather tiresome. Very true. If people don't like a thread or the opinions of a poster, they should just stay away. It's one thing to argue. It's quite another to just launch personal attacks/ mock/ make fun of another poster. Last time I checked, there wasn't some hierarchy that allows some posters to bash other posters. Yet this is something the mods should address and bring to their attention if it happens. It's amazing how people can forget the old maxim of "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all". Now, back to the regularly scheduled programming.

Taveras's OBP back in the minors was very respectable from 2002-2004, as he progressed one level a yr. It was .120 over his avg, in 02 and .99 over his avg. in 03. Having over a .400 OBP in AA is nice. That he skipped AAA and posted numbers like a avg of .291 and OBP of .325, shows he has potential to improve in his second yr. http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/T/willy-taveras.shtml

A few things: *At first glance, I didn't think Taveras would be a good fit. Yet he did have better OBP numbers in the minors. He should improve upon his .325 of '05. It's esp. tough for a rookie to hit leadoff. *He could be a backup leadoff man in case Pods got injured. But more likley to hit #9, possibly #2. Both Rowand and BA are different type hitters. *Anderson could start in AAA and be ready to step in if Dye, Pods or Taveras got injured. If Dye gets hurt, is Sweeney ready to play everyday? Not likely. We'd be looking at having Borchard be the everyday RFer. If Pods gets hurt, is Owens ready? I think both are a year away from helping. *His speed fits in with what Ozzie publicly has said he was looking for--esp SB, but also defensively *I'd be interested in seeing how many XBH's Pods had. My guess is pretty comparable to Taveras *Taveras wouldn't and shouldn't be the only piece of a trade. A bigger peice would be a guy like Qualls [who could be as valuable as Politte or Hermanson in set up and locked up cheaply for a few yrs] and/or a prospect like Hirsh or Patton

Houston picked Taveras up via rule 5 draft a few yrs back from Clev. Not exactly worth a #1 SP. My guess is this would be Houston's first offer. And the sox would counter with a more realistic albiet higher than Houston would accept.

The astros and the sox high A teams are very familiar with each other, having played 21 games this past yr. W/S won 13 of the 21. Troy Patton lost the 2 games he pitched against them.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Dec 31, 2005 -> 12:44 PM) The rumor says the Sox are willing to go to $105 million on payroll, and says trading Contreras frees up money for deadline reinforcements. If the payroll currently is at $95 million and they are willing to go $10 million higher, how much money needs to be freed up for deadline reinforcements when more than half of their salaries for 2006 would have already been paid out? I think the sox would be willing to go up to the $105 mill figure [say adding Tejeda w/o subtracting Jose], if it would help the sox repeat. But I also think subtracting Jose could be done, if it also helped the sox chances for repeating [say getting a stud set up guy like Chad qualls, along with a SP prospect who could conceivably help the sox this yr] But you're right, the sox wouldn't need to subtract anyone right now, if they were going to add a player or two at the deadline

QUOTE(GreatScott82 @ Dec 31, 2005 -> 12:21 PM) Keep Jose. If neccessesary ship him at the deadline if we absolutely need to fill a hole on our team. I'm pretty sure thats what Kenny has in mind. Kw is probably taking offers for Jose--why else would he make public comments that say he might deal Jose if the right offer came to him. Those comments would lead every GM interested in getting a #1 SP to call him. He can sit back and sort out the offers, w/o much pressure to make a deal. If KW gets what he wants, he'll likely deal Jose. IF KW had it in mind to keep Jose until the deadline, he would have said "See you all in Spring training" after the Garland signing. He didn't do that

FWIW, John Manuel of Baseball America agreed with someone who compared TRoy Patton to being Lefthanded Roy oswalt in the SAL league top 20 chat. http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/chat/050927jm.html Here's the bit: "Q: Andrew from Katy, TX asks: Is it just me, or does Troy Patton resemble a lefty Roy Oswalt? A: John Manuel: Sure, that's a fine comp."

QUOTE(103 mph screwball @ Dec 31, 2005 -> 02:59 AM) McCarthy as the long man out of the pen may be overkill. KW will need to get a starter for the long man spot if a deal goes down just in case of injury. The sox could be set with Sean Tracey being the long man in the bullpen. He'll be given the shot in spring if a of a SP trade is made.

The astros only 2 prospects close to the majors are Nieve and Hirsh. I doubt they'd give those two up. But LHP Troy Patton is a guy I could see really helping the sox. He dominated the SAL league {#4 rated prospect in the league, Gio gonzalez was 11th or 12th] and did just as well in high A. He could be ready for AA to start the yr [i think he'd be 20 this yr?]. Great control, high K rate, low HR allowed, a 1.61 GB: Fb rate A deal around Qualls and Patton could get it done.

Is Alex Woodson even eligible to be traded as he was drafted in 2005?

QUOTE(SadChiSoxFanOptimist @ Dec 30, 2005 -> 07:12 PM) You are proud that you're "too lazy" to read a post longer than a single thought? I'd keep thoughts like that private, were I you. BTW, it was a terrific post -- what's up with all the animosity here? Welcome to soxtalk It seems some of the posters like to have a "whipping boy" in VA fan.

QUOTE(AddisonStSox @ Dec 30, 2005 -> 04:11 PM) If he is used as a fourth outfielder, this is not as poor a signing as some of you are making it out to be. The fear would be Dusty using him in a platoon or starting role. I see Todd hollandsworth written all over him, w/ Dusty using him more than he should over a young OFer

QUOTE(WinninUgly @ Dec 30, 2005 -> 02:52 PM) Talking in terms of low salary positions, you can basically equate the following: Contreras + Uribe = Tejada + B-Mac in terms of salaries, since trading Contreras would move B-Mac into the starting rotation. Having Uribe's and B-Macs salaries coupled with some of the other low salaries does give some flexibility in re-signing other players, but Tejada will only make $10 million in 2006 and $12 million in 2007 (equal to Paulie). Those are pretty good numbers for a perennial All-Star. This is not like the O's are trying to unload Tejada's salary, so they are going to want a lot in return. I doubt any team will offer enough to get him. Getting Tejada would mean less money available to re-sign MB. GEtting another position player making over $10 mill isn't happening, until Thome is gone that is.

Good god does Baker like his old guys. All in all though, Grissom would be a better option than Corey in CF--a few yrs ago. They'd be better off keeping Patterson and hitting him in the 8th spot, just for his defense alone, than getting Grissom

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Dec 30, 2005 -> 01:09 PM) There is one big assumption that everyone is operating under right now, that very well might not be true... What gives everyone the impression that Kenny Williams has a contract extension out on the table to Jose Contreras at all anymore? Why would he? The Sox payroll is at $95 million this year and next according to the team, so do they even have the money to add on another $10 million per season? KW probably doesn't. Unless its his first offer that's still on the table, which Jose won't accept. The sox might as well wait this yr out, see how everything plays out SP wise--injury, effectiveness, etc. before offering Jose a contract. Then the sox could try to re-sign Jose or move someone else. The most likely scenario is Jose moving on to a 3 yr deal worth $11, 12 mill per yr somewhere else

Frankly, I don't think Tejada would be worth it in the long term. Not just becuase of his salary. But mostly because Uribe seems set for some consistency on offense, to match his gold glove caliber defense. Once Juan started that leg kick, he hit .304/.379/.641 in Sept., showing a lot more patience. He continued it through the playoffs, hitting .286/.362/.476. If that timing mechanism can give him more consistency, he should be able to equal or better his 2004 yr of .283/.327/.506 [maybe not his SLg, but at least his avg and OBP] If Juan progresses a little offensively, he'll be a bargain at his salary for the next two yrs. the sox will need the lower salaried position players so they can afford the high priced pitching staff