Buehrlesque
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Posts posted by Buehrlesque
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I'd take a chance on Mazara, obviously assuming the cost is nothing significant. The guy is very young.
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I think the "he might help win a close game in April that could affect a tight playoff race down the line" actually minimizes the impact of a delayed call-up. IMO the bigger loss of not calling a guy up until late April is the delayed major league adjustment period. In the big picture, I think that would cost a team more wins and hurt their playoff chances more than anything specific to Ws and Ls in the first two weeks.
Rookie Player X with two months and two weeks of experience >> Rookie Player X making his ML debut in win-now mode
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25 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:
How about:
Red Sox chose 4 of the following: Bummer, Colome, Abreu, Leury, and Rutherford
Sox get Benintendi and Rusney Castillo. Castillo due $11.75M this year and $14.25M next year. Offsets the money the BoSox are picking up in 2019, and gets Castillo off their books. Sox could run Castillo out in RF the rest of this season. Guy sucks, but maybe this is a way for the Sox to get creative to get Benintendi.
Again....doubt Dombrowski blows one of his best assets on something like this, but kind of fun to speculate about.
This would be interesting.
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The Sox know they have to do something significant this offseason, and I think they will. They won't be left holding the bag like last year. That said, there's no chance they end up with Cole.
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52 minutes ago, TomPickle said:
I understand the worry some users ITT have about re-signing Robert when his team control is up and I think that is likely the case as well. However, do you all not have the same concerns over signing Moncada, Giolito, Kopech, Cease, Eloy, and possibly Anderson as well? If you play the service time game with Robert and call him up in May of 2020 the only guy you will for sure have for all of Robert's control is Eloy. Everyone else's clock will run out and need to be re-signed/extended.
Parkman put it more succinctly, the window is already open and now slowly closing. At this point in the rebuild you should be trying to get the remaining pieces to the majors at a pace that pushes them, but doesn't overwhelm them. Robert is pretty clearly ready to play in the majors right now. I'm fine with giving him through August at AAA if you want, but he should see the big leagues this year. Madrigal and Vaughn should both be up in 2020.
For me, this is /thread. Perfectly put.
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I come at this from a bit of a different angle than many of you, in that I don't demand as many HRs out of prospects, so I don't have that obsession with power. I find it too reductive to pin such a majority of a player like Madrigal's value purely on power production. This isn't HR derby, or a WAR contest or fantasy baseball. The idea is to build a good, balanced, winning major league team. He's going to be in a lineup with Eloy, Vaughn and Robert — three guys with monster power, TA — a guy with good power for his position, and possibly Collins or Burger — two guys with massive power if they make it. The White Sox will not lack for HRs to the point they desperately need their 2B to hit a lot of them. How many HRs Nick Madrigal hits is just not that important to me to how he will provide value to the White Sox. JMO.
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1. Robert
2. Kopech
3. Cease
4. Madrigal
5. Vaughn
6. Dunning
7. Basabe
8. Rutherford
9. Sheets
10. WalkerI understand the lack of enthusiasm over Rutherford and Sheets, but I think some of the concerns are a little overblown. For comparison's sake, Walker is a full year older than Rutherford and has been playing a level or two lower all year. (Also, I don't dock guys for lack of HR power as much as other people do.)
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Probably not worthy of a new thread, but what do you guys think of Wil Myers as a buy-low guy?
He's owed a bunch of money, isn't having a great year (I think he's been benched lately) and the Padres already have too many OFs as it is. You could probably get him just as a salary dump. Is his track record good enough to give him RF for a while here and see if he flourishes again?
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I think we're all working overtime mentally to wishcast some formulation of Collins that is better than he actually is. A three-true-outcomes 1B (or pretty bad defensive catcher for a team that couldn't stand Narvaez) is barely above next year's crop of DFAs. I'm hoping for the best, like @bmags said, maybe a Joc Pederson type offensive peak if all goes right, but I don't think he'll be a "borderline star."
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I feel good about Vaughn, but can someone reassure me again that he is significantly better than Pavin Smith? What differentiates the two? Smith was a top 10 pick, college 1B, good contact/power combo with a low strikeout rate, but he's been really underwhelming so far in the DBacks' system.
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11 minutes ago, bmags said:
The plus to Abrams is if Vaughn started to struggle in AA his value absolutely craters.
Jorge Mateo kept decent value through his struggles because of the speed and position, and now at age 24 has found some really nice power. This year he has 9 triples and 4 homers already in AAA and is slashing .329/.368/.567.
Abrams needs to tap into power through both physical projection and swing changes, but even if he doesn't he would still be valuable either in trade or production.
And if he does accomplish power he would be one of the best in the game.
Still prefer witt, who has power now, but Abrams would be so exciting to have in the system that is so devoid of his type of skillset and most of all, projection.
And if he fails others would have failed too.
I know it is cynical of me, but part of the solace I would take if the Sox drafted Abrams is that his prospect value could be leveraged in a trade next year, or even this winter, for an established MLB player Kelenic-style. The Sox don't have many high upside guys like that, so it would be nice to have that as an option. And it could be accomplished before his actual minor league performance becomes a factor one way or the other.
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3 minutes ago, OneDog847 said:
Who do you give up for Eaton?
Not sure. Obviously, if the cost is even remotely high, it's an easy pass. I'd try to start with one of Basabe/Gonzalez/Walker, then add a second piece (maybe Flores or Pilkington?)
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2 hours ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:
Washington is going nowhere and heading towards a firesale. Eaton would fill a massive hole in RF and the top of the lineup. He has two option years remaining at $9.5M and 10.5M and is healthy and playing well. I think they should bring him back.
This thought has actually crossed my mind before. In a vacuum, it's a so-so move. But when you consider the realistic options available, it's really not that bad.
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5 hours ago, tkling36 said:
Pretty sure Herrera is their starting center fielder. I don't see why they would trade him if they signed Harper. Cutch would go to left, Herrera in CF and Harper to right. Pushes Hoskins to first base, where he belongs. If anything, they would just part ways with Aaron Altherr who is a year older then Herrera and isn't very good.
They also have Nick WIlliams and Roman Quinn too. I think it's fair to think Odubel could be available. NBC Sports Philly was speculating about it yesterday.
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In historically embarrassing, incompetent and cheap fashion, the Sox lost out on Manny Machado. This thread is not about him. Let's keep all the murderous rage and legitimate anger out of this thread, and just focus on any possible remaining moves now that that situation is resolved. The Sox seem to be set with an infield of Moncada (3B), TA (SS), Yolmer (2B) and Abreu/Alonso (1B/DH), and honestly, at this point I am fine with that. Alonso is obviously one of the worst possible acquisitions value-wise, but it is what it is now.
The OF on the other hand, is a dumpster fire (and would have been with or without Machado). Would anyone here be interested in Odubel Herrera from the Phillies? He's about to get forced out when they (eventually) sign Bryce Harper. He's 27, bats left, can play CF or RF, and while he hasn't been outstanding the last two years, he was darn impressive in 2016 and still could tap into that upside, especially with a change of scenery and an everyday job. Compared to, say, Mitch Haniger, who would cost a Dylan Cease or something, Herrera would come relatively cheap, and still has several years on his contract left. What do you guys think?
I'd say Herrera is my guy right now. Anyone else worth considering? Joc? JBJ? Pony up for Haniger or Starling Marte?
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16 hours ago, Dam8610 said:
White Sox receive:
SP Zack Greinke
SP Robbie Ray
$20 million
Diamondbacks receive:
C Zack Collins
Thoughts? Too much? Too little?
I really like this idea. Probably a little light though — throw in Carson Fulmer and an org-type guy.
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I don't mind selling high on Narvaez, but for two years of a relief pitcher? Doesn't seem like the best use of his value. I guess Colome will get flipped for different prospects sown the line anyway.
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7 minutes ago, steveno89 said:
Not signing Harper/Machado could be a blessing is disguise, as the contracts will almost assuredly become burdens down the line. I'd much rather heavily load a 4-5 year deal if possible.
Yeah, there is just about literally no way a 10-year contract could work out for the Sox. If Harper/Machado bypass their opt outs, that means they are underperforming and overpaid. Best case scenario is they set the world on fire for the Sox, opt out and then become some other team's problem if their performance falls off into their 30s.
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4 minutes ago, BamaDoc said:
How about one year 5 million with another 3-5 in incentives. If healthy and productive, he could make as much or even a little more than arbitration prediction. If he is like last year, he gets about five. Add a club option at 8-12 depending on what incentives are reached. Seems fair to both sides.
The club option makes this interesting. Ultimately though, I don't think Avi would do that. He could just take a one-year contract and hit FA after 2019. The club option hurts him without any real upside for him.
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39 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:
God damn Phillies. Hopefully they land Machado and then use the rest of their money on pitching.
Yeah, right now, this is the Sox' clearest path to getting a big fish.
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14 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:
Our #1 goal this offseason should be to land a whale. Therefore, we should not do anything that helps the Phillies or Yankees improve their chances.
Now, if we fail to land a whale and the Phillies would give up a young player to absorb Santana’s contract, I’d be totally open for that, but I think they’d much rather just eat $10M and call it a day.
Not necessarily. The Phillies will almost certainly get one of Harper or Machado. If they choose Harper, the Sox are left to outbid the Yankees for Machado, which won't happen. But... if the Phillies opt for Machado, the Sox path for Harper would be a little clearer since the Yankees aren't interested. So anything the Sox can do to nudge the Phillies specifically toward Machado could pay off for them in the long run.
That said, trading for Santana could open 1B for Hoskins, which opens an OF spot for Harper. So that could be bad. But trading for Franco to open an infield spot could help the cause.
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4 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:
If you sign Harper to a 3 year opt out he's here for 2021, but the more you front-load the deal the more likely he is to opt out. If he opts out after 2021, you have to be ready for Harper to be here during 1 competitive season. Imagine the scenario where the White Sox win 75 games this year, 81 games in 2020, and then 92 games and a wild card birth in 2021, only to lose in the Wild Card - and THEN HARPER LEAVES. Now you've done everything right to get to a Wild Card birth, you get 1 game in the playoffs, and then your best or second best player leaves as a free agent. Congrats, you paid $120 million, you got 1 playoff game, your fan base is disappointed because you lost, and then they're demoralized because Harper signed a 10 year deal with the World Champion Yankees. Aside from the nightmare of the injuries continuing...that's just about the worst case scenario I can imagine.
No, in this model, the worst-case scenario is not signing Harper altogether because you wouldn't relent on the opt-out at year three. So instead he signs elsewhere, that team enjoys success in 2020 related to Harper, then he uses his opt-out leverage to get a raise for the remaining years on his contract without hitting the open market. The Sox, meanwhile, save $40 mil/year for three years but have nothing really to show for it.
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Creative trades you say?
Angels get: Luis Robert, Nick Madrigal, Dylan Cease, Dane Dunning
Sox get: Mike TroutThat's four top-100 prospects for two years of Trout. Who says no?
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38 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:
Heyward had 2 opt-outs, one after year 3 and another after year 4. And honestly, I still think this is the one way the White Sox could lose out on both of them. We aren't going to be a competitive team in 2019 and even if we sign one of them, I'm skeptical about 2020 (Abreu needs replaced, Kopech coming back from the DL might very well need time to re-find the control he built over 4 months of this season, the catchers will be up but young). If the White Sox pay Harper $40 million per year, and they're a 75 win team next year and an 82 win team in 2020 before the glut of outfielders hits in 2021 and we finally have a loaded roster...then we'll basically be paying Harper $120 million in order to have him for 1 competitive season.
That's the one thing we can't do. Opt out after year 4, maybe...year 5 ok if we have to, but if I had any choice I'd be doing it after like year 6 because I want him there for a title run. The Phillies or Braves...a team that is competitive right now...they might be able to justify a buyout after year 2 or year 3 by saying they will win a division next year with the guy. We cannot say that.
That's just not realistic. Harper is getting an opt out no later than year four. If the Sox want a leg up on the rest of the bidders, they should should front load the contract and acquiesce to the opt out after year three. Sure, it's a serious risk that they lose him after three years, but at least they'd have the leg up on renegotiating with him in that scenario (like ARod with the Yankees, Upton with the Angels, Kershaw last week with the Dodgers, etc.) The greater risk is not signing him altogether. It's better to have Bryce'd and lost than never Bryce'd at all!
La Russa arrested for DUI in Feb; charged day before hire
in Pale Hose Talk
Posted · Edited by Buehrlesque
Fans complaining to Sox employees, even with season-ticket cancellations, isn't going to change anything. Reinsdorf doesn't care and probably isn't monitoring the response anyway. The only ways things could change are
Even still, I think Sox fans and media need to continue to voice their displeasure to all this. Despite Reinsdorf not being available publicly, the heat needs to continue to be turned up on Hahn, KW, Reifert, etc., even though they clearly had no real part in the decision and have no real power to reverse it.
Heck, an organized in-person protest at the ballpark would probably be appropriate.