Jump to content

Lip Man 1

Members
 View Profile  See their activity

  • Posts

    6,949

  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won

    8

 Content Type 

Posts posted by Lip Man 1

    Sox looking at building in South Loop

    in Pale Hose Talk

    Posted

    3 hours ago, WBWSF said:

    The Mayor of Chicago has said that the proposed Bears stadium is a public benefit. I hope he feels the same way about the proposed White Sox stadium.

    Both are public benefits as long as the public doesn't have to pay to get them built. Let the billionaire owners take care of that. 

    Pham up, Pillar out

    in Pale Hose Talk

    Posted · Edited by Lip Man 1

    17 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

    Nobody spends more money on junk plastic deck chairs for the ole rusty half floating pontoon boat than the Sox.

    Yep but to actually go out and sign a top difference maker? Nope...can't do that, it offends JR's sensibilities. 

    Understanding Jerry

    in Pale Hose Talk

    Posted

    51 minutes ago, 77 Hitmen said:

    Oh absolutely.  I'm not advocating for a continuation of a Reinsdorf ownership of the Sox in any way.  I was just wondering about his motivation for saying such a thing and, given his reluctance to talk to the press, how often he's actually expressed this desire.

    I know of two "official" instances where he has publicly commented on succession. The others come from what my sources have told me over the years and for the State of the Sox story I did in November 2022. The other was that newspaper story but I can't remember the details, it was just published a few years ago, don't even remember if it was the Sun-Times or the Tribune.

    I think the "motivation" is basic as I was told.  He feels the White Sox don't make money and the Bulls do because the NBA has a salary cap. I have no idea if that's true or not, I've only been told by individuals who know members of the board that the Sox haven't lost money in a long time. As I wrote maybe JR feels the Sox don't make enough money to suit his expectations.

    No way to know for sure since they won't open their books to an independent economist to evaluate.   

    Understanding Jerry

    in Pale Hose Talk

    Posted · Edited by Lip Man 1

    11 hours ago, 77 Hitmen said:

    Well summarized. 

    One thing I don't get is why would he care if any of his offspring own the White Sox after he's gone?  I keep hearing that, but why would he care what business decisions they make after he's dead?  Surely Michael or any other Reinsdorf children are old enough and experienced enough to make their own decision on this.  Are there multiple sources and/or interviews to confirm this?  Or is this based on one comment he made one time?

    He has actually said this a few times, but he hasn't spoken much about it publicly over the decades. I've posted the comments from others both inside and outside the organization who have told me the same thing regarding the future.

    I think just a few years ago one of the mainstream newspapers had a story or two on the future of the Sox where there were comments as well along these lines but I honestly don't remember a lot of specifics from the story.

    And frankly given the state of the Bulls under Michael running things, the very LAST thing any Sox fan should want is another Reinsdorf running the franchise for another 40+ years.

    • Like 1

    The moment this all started

    in Pale Hose Talk

    Posted

    26 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

    Just because something happened a long time ago, doesn't make it great.

    No, it doesn't but 17 straight winning seasons (the 4th longest streak in MLB history) is noteworthy. I can't think of a single Sox fan who wouldn't give up something to see that happen again.

    • Like 2

    The moment this all started

    in Pale Hose Talk

    Posted

    10 minutes ago, waltwilliams said:

    Good points, Lip -- didn't realize Hemond had six winning seasons. I agree with the fact that Hemond had to contend with the financial problems of both the Allyn and Veeck ownership groups. And he really should be championed for his work in '71 after he was hired, when the team was an afterthought.

    But he was also fortunate to be around for the one period when JR was willing to spend money -- the early 80s, which led to the Winning Ugly team. But that team quickly fizzled after '83, partly because Hemond didn't acquire/develop enough talent around his high-profile free agent acquisitions.. His early 70s acquisitions of people like Dick Allen and Stan Bahnsen were great, but those teams weren't deep at all. Once Dick went down with injuries in '73, that team fizzled too. And don't forget, as great as Dick was, he didn't last long. And the guy he was traded for -- Tommy John -- pitched at a high level for another 16 years (after his famous surgery, of course).

    Perhaps "overrated" is too harsh for Hemond, but pretty much all Sox GMs had to deal with parsimonious owners. I think ultimately KW and the 50s/60s GMs were able to accomplish more with less than Roland Hemond.

    From 81 through 83 the Sox signed/acquired two good players every year. Fisk and Luzinski...Paciorek and Kemp...Bannister and Cruz.

    Then as JR himself said he didn't realize winning would cost so much. He began shutting things down and started to form his opinions on collusion during the mid-80's and an attempt to break the MLBPA. Those weren't Roland's fault.

    Then of course he hired Harrelson to be the GM who promptly drove the team in the basement and quit that September. I wrote the chapter on his tenure for Dr. Fletcher's next book on the Sox which will be out next year.  

    The moment this all started

    in Pale Hose Talk

    Posted

    41 minutes ago, waltwilliams said:

    I think the organization began its free-fall when Kenny Williams was kicked upstairs and replaced as GM by Rick Hahn.

    He had his detractors, but KW was arguably the greatest GM in Sox history, winning a WS and three AL Central titles during his run as GM from 2001 to 2012. They finished second in five other seasons and at .500 or better nine times under Kenny, putting together a 1,014-931 record during his stint as GM.

    The KW teams were great fun to watch, even when flawed. And that showed by attendance, which averaged at around 2.5 million between 2005 and 2011.

    KW was an excellent evaluator of major league talent, and was able to acquire undervalued talent who made a difference -- A.J. Pierzynski, Jermaine Dye, Freddy Garcia, Carlos Quentin, Juan Uribe and dozens more.

    Imagine if he had been able to swing the deal with the Marlins for Miguel Cabrera for (reportedly) Josh Fields, Gio Gonzales and (maybe) Jon Garland back in 2007! KW had that deal sewed up - the only reason that didn't happen is because JR didn't want to take on Dontrelle Willis's salary, which the Marlins insisted on. The Tigers did accept that salary, and the rest is history.

    But the bottom dropped out under Hahn, who had only one really good year during his tenure -- 2021. (I don't count the Covid year). Despite having higher annual budgets than KW, Hahn's teams underperformed year after year. He followed up KW's stellar run with a 716-846 record, a barren farm system and consistently dwindling attendance.

    KW was much more effective than the overrated Roland Hemond as GM. Only Ron Schueler and the late 40s/50s/early 60s GMs (Frank Lane, Chuck Comiskey, Hank Greenberg, Ed Short) could approach Kenny's record. (Larry Himes built the great early 90s teams, but was forced out before he could enjoy their success).

     

    The same Roland Hemond who built the 72, 77 and 83 Sox? Especially when most of his tenure took place with ownership not having real money or a willingness to take on top free agents?

    Sorry you feel that way, as I wrote in my interview with Roland history says differently:

    And then we come to the person I think holds the title of the ‘best’ Sox G.M., Roland Hemond.

    When Hemond took over the organization the franchise was literally in shambles. He faced challenges no other individual who held the position of G.M. ever faced.

    The Sox were on their way to a franchise record 106 loss season in 1970. Comiskey Park was falling apart from disrepair. Fans were staying away in droves because the area was supposedly in a bad neighborhood. In 1969 for example the team drew, for the season, only 589,000... even that would fall to a paltry 495,000 in 1970. In 1968 and 1969, owner Art Allyn was playing a portion of his home games in Milwaukee trying the market to see if it would accept a move of the franchise from the South Side. The Sox would even lose their radio station and have to broadcast games starting in 1971 on two small outlets in LaGrange and Evanston, Illinois. Anything and everything that could go wrong for the White Sox did. And into this cesspool stepped Hemond along with new field manager Chuck Tanner.

    Overnight, Hemond, who spent years in both the Milwaukee Braves and California Angels farm system began to deal. Other general managers trusted and liked him because of his integrity and honesty. He was usually one of the first to be called when trade discussions took place. He always tried to get the best of a deal but never at the expense of humiliating or embarrassing his counterpart. Hemond realized if he did this, the odds of him being called back for future discussions or trades were small.

    In that first off season he netted the Sox such players as Mike Andrews, Luis Alvarado, Rick Reichardt, Ed “the Creeper” Stroud, Pat Kelly, Tom Egan, Tom Bradley and Jay Johnstone. Superstars? No...but they were solid ballplayers who improved the talent and depth of the club. Overnight the Sox went from 56 wins to 79, one of the biggest turnarounds in the history of baseball.

    In 1972 Hemond rolled the dice bringing in talented but oft troubled Dick Allen. Allen was on his third team in three seasons and was considered a clubhouse cancer. Hemond also made a deal for starting pitcher Stan Bahnsen. Those two, along with holdovers like Carlos May, Wilbur Wood, “Goose” Gossage, Terry Forster and Ed Herrmann almost brought a division title to the South Side. Allen nearly won the Triple Crown; Hemond was named Executive of the Year and Tanner the Manager of the Year. Roland proved that rebuilding didn’t have to take five years.

    Financial issues still plagued the franchise through the 70's even with new owner Bill Veeck. Hemond was never able to operate with a full deck of cash but he kept the team competitive and in 1977 he along with Veeck put together the “South Side Hit Men” who tore apart the American League bashing 192 home runs. Such ‘thrown in’s’ and ‘has been’s’ like Eric Soderholm, Steve Stone, Alan Bannister, Jim Essian, Don Kessinger and Steve Renko performed exceptionally well and mated with established players like Richie Zisk, Oscar Gamble, Chet Lemon, Lerrin LaGrow, George Orta and Ralph Garr to produce excitement not seen since 1972.

    When new owners Jerry Reinsdorf and Eddie Einhorn took over in January 1981, Hemond finally had some money to work with. Immediately he and Einhorn took part in the negotiations to bring free agent Carlton Fisk to Chicago. Hemond also convinced Chicago native Greg Luzinski to come back home after the Phillies released him. These two along with other Hemond steals like Billy Almon and Tony Bernazard led to a revitalization of the franchise. Much like 10 years earlier, the Sox produced a winning record in the strike shortened season. They had another winning year in 1982 as Hemond added role players like Rudy Law and Vance Law. By the time 1983 began, Roland was able to extract such players as Scott Fletcher, Dick Tidrow, Randy Martz and Pat Tabler from the Cubs in part because he considered the possibility of taking future Hall of Fame pitcher Ferguson Jenkins in the free agent compensation draft. Tabler was then shipped to Cleveland for Jerry Dybzinski. The pieces were in place and after a slow start, the Sox tore through the league compiling 99 wins on their way to the Western Division Championship. 

    Hemond then used the free agent compensation process again in getting future Hall of Fame pitcher Tom Seaver who’d win his 300th games in a Sox uniform in New York on August 4, 1985 as well as trading for a person who’d turn out to be the Rookie of the Year and a future Sox manager, Ozzie Guillen.

    In the 15 years Hemond was in charge he pulled off over 100 trades, had six winning seasons and won a Western Division championship. Considering the challenges the team went through economically, talent wise and perception wise, no other Sox G.M. did as much with less.

    • Like 1
    • Love 1

    4-25 Game thread Sox @ Twins, lucky #7? 12:10 CDT 1st pitch

    in 2024 Season in Review

    Posted

    Pedro being Pedro:

    Lee catching on

    The combination of 37-year-old Martin Maldonado’s .048 batting average with 25-year-old Korey Lee’s .279 average and .791 OPS as well as Lee’s superior defense resulted in Lee catching three of four games of the series, including Thursday’s day game after a night game.

    “I want to get him in there a little bit more consistently,” Grifol said. “At the same time I want to make sure he’s developing at the right pace and not trying to do too much too soon.”

    Lee struck out with Robbie Grossman on third in the second inning, but finished with two hits. He made a sliding catch near the dugout in the bottom of the inning.

    Grifol said Lee workload would be “inconsistent.”

    “Sometimes he’ll play three out of four, sometimes he’ll play two out of four. Sometimes he might play one out of four. It all depends how he’s coming along on his development and the things that he’s got to work on.”

    • Haha 3
    • Paper Bag 1

    4-25 Game thread Sox @ Twins, lucky #7? 12:10 CDT 1st pitch

    in 2024 Season in Review

    Posted

    51 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said:

    When I grew up, the Sox sucked. When my dad grew up, the Sox sucked. When his dad grew up. Fhe Sox sucked. We've always been one of the worst, if not the worst, organizations in sports. 

    From 1951 through 1967 the Sox had 17 straight winning seasons. Six or seven of those, can't remember, included years where they won 90+ games. They outdrew the Cubs in 16 of those 17 years.

    During that time the Cubs were an afterthought. 

    • Like 3

    Sox looking at building in South Loop

    in Pale Hose Talk

    Posted

    https://chicago.suntimes.com/bears/2024/04/23/bears-new-stadium-dome-lakefront-soldier-field

    The political obstacles include a cold reception from Gov. J.B. Pritzker and legislative leaders with more important priorities and the very real potential for a legal battle with Friends of the Parks, the public advocacy group that serves as the primary protector of the lakefront and enforcer of the Lakefront Protection Ordinance that prohibits new construction east of Lake Shore Drive.

    And it will indeed be difficult to get any help from Pritzker, who was not invited to Wednesday’s big reveal. He has been critical of early reports the Bears would ask for taxpayer assistance, and remained so on Wednesday.

    “I’m highly skeptical of the proposal that’s been made and I believe strongly that this is not a high priority for legislators and certainly not for me, when I compare it to all the other things,” Pritzker said at a news conference Wednesday in Maywood.

    No player symbolizes Chris Getz Player Development like Lenyn Sosa

    in Pale Hose Talk

    Posted

    34 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

    This is what my red flag is.  The things that seem to be learnable, aren't be learned here.  Like I said, get some things are beyond teaching, but some things are teachable, and we don't seem to be getting better at them.  We seem to be the dumbest baseball IQ team on a year in and year out basis.

    Absolutely correct. The Sox haven't been good at fundamentals for years, 2005 and 20212 stick out as them being good in my mind.

    Every year you hear the talk about stressing fundamentals in spring training and every year it is the same nonsense.

    Personally I think it is a combination of "baseball-stupid" players and staffs that are incapable of teaching them properly and getting through to these guys.

×
×
  • Create New...