I really am torn these days.

 

Words can not express the joy I feel for the Iraqi people, that they are free from the Baathist regime that they lived under for far too long. At the same time, I can't say that I thought the war was justified (yet).

 

I've studied enough politics to know the roles of governments and the right for states to have self-determination. Yet, hundreds of thousands died under the Hussein regime. And it angers me.

 

The problem with politics is that you have to be prepared to be callous. Because your best interest and compassion aren't always the same thing. When I thought about this conflict, I've tried very hard to keep emotion out of the argument - because emotion generally doesn't make for good policy. And if WMD are not found, then this war wasn't in our national interest at all. Yet, thousands upon thousands of lives will be spared due to the end of totalitarian government in Iraq.

 

These two things have been colliding in my head for years. It's why I hate politics so damn much. I just wanna be a nice guy, drink some beer and watch White Sox games. Stupid conscience.

yo, as a poly sci major and then finally minor, I found it helpful to learn that there are always more than 1 or 2 or 3 options and all that goes into these things - to see the myriad of possibilities each one wiith its things to recommend and to speak against it as a choice - and the unintended consequences of actions that could/should be foreseen when ideology or wishing is set aside and all factors considered, which happens so infrequently - it has been a help in understanding the way the world works but doesn't leave me sanguine about policy options in most cases - all in all I am glad I stayed with it as a minor just for that (as well as what else I learned). I dropped it as a double major when one of the professors took a sabbatical (it was a small college, Nortk Park on the N side of Chicago). Maybe you want to keep it as a minor? Or not - your call of course. But I know what you are talking about.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,276...,935271,00.html

 

Let's oust Saddam's regime to use his old police force etc. and let them keep power. What a great idea!

I will never believe anything that comes out of London...there news media is extremely Liberal. Of course anything from another country is going to be anti-american. But London, possibly even all of Britain, is so anti-U.S. policy it sickens me...But when upset, we can always remind those limeys on the isle who won the revolutionary war.

I will never believe anything that comes out of London...there news media is extremely Liberal.  Of course anything from another country is going to be anti-american. But London, possibly even all of Britain, is so anti-U.S. policy it sickens me...But when upset, we can always remind those limeys on the isle who won the revolutionary war.

What happens when the story is broken in the US media? You gonna stick your head in the sand for that one too?

I dropped out of a poli sci masters program 4 years ago. I just have difficulty being the person who can accept that decisions in policy can have grave consequences.

I will never believe anything that comes out of London...there news media is extremely Liberal.  Of course anything from another country is going to be anti-american. But London, possibly even all of Britain, is so anti-U.S. policy it sickens me...But when upset, we can always remind those limeys on the isle who won the revolutionary war.

Yes, Tony Blair is noticably antiAmerican.

 

 

This type of intentional self-imposed stupidity is really disheartening. Grow up. Your self-willed ignornace of the world is what is antiAmerican.

 

A person with personal integity not only spends time reading things from all points of views (and has a idea what these points of views are... that is a jab by the way) but intentionally gets infommation and opinions from sources that are in disagreement with what one believes. It is a way to test and check what one does believe and see if it needs modification as well as give a person a clue what is going on. (That was another jab.)

 

 

Of course to be the living embodiment of the Ugly American (a literary reference) and the Beavis and Butthead stereotype of stupid uninformed prejuidiced Americans (a cultural reference) is a life goal, I suppose.

Now, now. You're both pretty.

I will take on your jabs one at a time

 

This type of intentional self-imposed stupidity is really disheartening. Grow up. Your self-willed ignornace of the world is what is antiAmerican.

 

I was in London last winter and was verbally assulted when I emerged from a subway station or the "underground" as they call it. When I came up the stairway there was an anti-war in Afghanistan parade. I heard "f***in Americans" enough to make my blood boil.

 

A person with personal integity not only spends time reading things from all points of views (and has a idea what these points of views are... that is a jab by the way) but intentionally gets infommation and opinions from sources that are in disagreement with what one believes. It is a way to test and check what one does believe and see if it needs modification as well as give a person a clue what is going on. (That was another jab.)

 

I intentionally read things from an opposite point of view everyday...on this message board. I read things written by Apu, and yourself. Most of your views are on the opposite end of the spectrum compared to my own. Except when it comes to the Sox, of course.

 

Of course to be the living embodiment of the Ugly American (a literary reference) and the Beavis and Butthead stereotype of stupid uninformed prejuidiced Americans (a cultural reference) is a life goal, I suppose.

 

I am well aware of the term "ugly american"(I heard it in London), and I don't consider myself to be ugly. As for Beavis and Butthead, I loved that show when I was younger...used to watch it everyday at 6pm on MTV with my brother. Beavis and Butthead "Do America" was a great movie...up their with my favirotes "Braveheart" and "Major League". Yet, I do not dream of becoming Beavis and Butthead, I only want their T-Shirts.

 

Now CWSOX I want to know how much of the opposing view are you aware of...I hear and watch liberal media every night (Dan Rather, Tom Brokaw, occacionally MSNBC), and I read the New York Times everyday...what do you read and watch from the opposite view? Do you listen to Hannidy on the radio? or Rush Limbaugh?

 

Anyway on a less heated note, the 1997 Michigan vs. Ohio St. game was on ESPN Classic today. I was flipping back and fourth between that and the Sox. It was sweet seeing Woodson run back that kick. Sometimes I enjoy being sick, because I get to stay in and watch so much ESPN classic. cheers to Classic Michigan Football

 

By the way comic book guy on the Simpsons would call this "the longest post...ever"

NY Times is not what I would call liberal. MSNBC is not liberal (It's owned by Microsoft and General Electric) These companies get editorial control over the news that goes on the air. GE also owns a weapons manufacturer who creates the guidance tips for US missiles. I really doubt they will hurt sales by putting things critical of Bush and the war on air.

 

Hell, 1549, I even say "f***ing Americans" when I see our imperialism, our government being asshats (i.e. Alaska senator looking to ask cops & firefighters to forego their overtime pay), our s***ty TV shows, our really poor culture and over advertising to make that culture look good.

 

I watch Bill O'Reilly a lot, keep myself up to date with the writings of Dinesh D'Souza, read plenty of CNN and what stories they are breaking, etc. Then compare that with the Guardian, the BBC, etc.

 

I really wouldn't put Rush Limbaugh as one of the flagship members of the right though. He really takes down the legitimacy in your cause. The guy, like O'Reilly has been nailed a lot for turning off the volume to not let people get in counter arguments etc. If you are going to be an educated member of the right or left, don't listen to Limbaugh.

poli sci , wtf is that ? Sounds like a STD !

our s***ty TV shows, our really poor culture and over advertising to make that culture look good

 

Don't criticize our TV. It is part of our culture, like it or not. Even you watch The Simpsons, The Sopranos, Adult Swim, CSI, SNL, South Park...how could you not, they are all great shows.

 

And what do you mean when you talk about advertising making our culture look good? I am not sure I understand the point you are trying to get across

poli sci , wtf is that ? Sounds like a STD !

 

Political Science, c'mon JoeBatters everybody knows that there isn't an std called poli sci...get your head in the game

Anyway on a less heated note, the 1997 Michigan vs. Ohio St. game was on ESPN Classic today.  I was flipping back and fourth between that and the Sox.  It was sweet seeing Woodson run back that kick.  Sometimes I enjoy being sick, because I get to stay in and watch so much ESPN classic.   cheers to Classic Michigan Football

20-14, what a game -

 

you are now my bestus friend ever!

 

 

ohhowIhateOhioState

 

may you win the lottery next time you play!

poli sci , wtf is that ? Sounds like a STD !

 

Political Science, c'mon JoeBatters everybody knows that there isn't an std called poli sci...get your head in the game

If poli sci isnt an STD, why did i have to take penicillin when I dropped out of school?

Don't criticize our TV.  It is part of our culture, like it or not. Even you watch The Simpsons, The Sopranos, Adult Swim, CSI, SNL, South Park...how could you not, they are all great shows.

 

And what do you mean when you talk about advertising making our culture look good? I am not sure I understand the point you are trying to get across

Jenny Jones, Ricki Lake, Jerry Springer...are these the bastions of good culture in America? This just promotes the stereotype of Americans being trailer trash, an idea that gets shipped everywhere. Just like we are being programmed that the French are "cheese eating surrender monkeys".

 

We advertise our culture as "hip", "edgy" etc. with the Backstreet Boys, N'Sync, etc. etc. etc. And I will be goddamned if our culture is going to be known in foreign lands for chairs being thrown at each other, incredibly s***ty pop-dance "music", and lame talk show bulls***.

 

Come on, there are a distinct number of our population that don't even know when WORLD WAR II took place! The United States has some serious problems that need to get addressed.

Don't forget this:

 

 

and this........

 

and this.....

 

and this.....

 

and this....

 

 

And all the other mindless reality TV show crap that people will waste their time viewing. We no longer want to have our own reality, we want to sit on our ass and watch someone else's lame version of it.

My sentiments exactly, Zach

American Idol and Search for America's Sexiest people you could argue are not mindless tv. American Idol is a talent search, just a televised won, so I don't see why you would call it mindless...personally I don't like it because Paula Abdul is past her prime(though hot for her age) and I don't like the music they sing.

 

America's Sexiest people would have a stronger arguement, but as long as Miss. America pageants are not mindless, then why isn't this. I just have to say I have seen sexier women then the ones on this show...so why are they on the show if I have seen sexier?