Do you have any trade concerns re other teams?

[VAfan]

I'm surprised no one picked up on Abreu to the Yankees. I fear that more than I fear him going to the Tigers. Even though the Tigers need on-base guys like Abreu in a bad way, he fits the Yankee personality much better. And, as someone pointed out on another thread, we've had more trouble with the good hitting teams than with teams that can pitch. Unless our starting pitching gets a lot better, I'm not eager to face the Yanks in the postseason without Abreu. I'd be even less excited about facing them if they added Abreu to RF and got Matsui back in LF and Cano at 2B. Where's the weak link in that lineup?

 

What would be really sick is if the Yankees got him for essentially nothing in a salary dump. (I hate it most when they just add useful players because they are the only team that can afford to pay them.)

 

BTW -- I would agree that if Philly would take Thames and Minor that the deal would already be done. The main rumor was that Philly wanted one or more of the Tigers' hot minor league pitchers whose name escapes me at the moment.

 

*********************

 

Personally, I wish KW would offer Philly Pods and Haeger (or some equivalent minor league pitcher) for Abreu and $6 million cash (to reduce his 2007 salary to $10 million). Then I'd offer Abreu a two-year extension at $10 million per year for 2008-09 to waive his no-trade and tear up his option and $2 million buyout, as long as the new deal didn't have a full no-trade clause (I'd let him veto a trade to some teams).

 

If Abreu balked, I'd offer $12 million for a 1-year extension on the same terms. The value of this is it would be a whole lot more than the Yankees or Tigers will offer. We also have to give up something to get Philly to eat $6 million in contract money. But if we can get him for even less, by all means do so. As I've mentioned elsewhere, Abreu would be a perfect lead off hitter for this lineup. He has created 67 runs (RC27 =7.76) compared to Pod's 47 runs (RC27=5), and I think he can do even better. (Last year the gap was 122RC -- 9th in baseball -- to 68RC -- 124th in baseball.)

[gojimthome]

Personally, I wish KW would offer Philly Pods and Haeger (or some equivalent minor league pitcher) for Abreu and $6 million cash (to reduce his 2007 salary to $10 million).

 

Only if they throw in Rollins and Gordon.

 

I bet that trade gets turned down in MVP baseball even with "fair trades" turned off.

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(The Ginger Kid @ Jul 19, 2006 -> 07:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thames has so many clutch big hits that I'd love to see him go. And if Detroit wants to weaken their primary strength and throw in some of their starting pitching, then be my guest. I don't fear hitters coming from the weak NL to the AL.

 

Thames is not as good and will never be as good as Abreu. Miner is not very good and not even one of their better pitching prospects. The Tigers would be upgrading and giving away basically nothing. This would be a terrible deal for the Phillies. I wouldn't mind seeing Thames going, but I wouldn't want to face Abreu instead of Thames. That is for sure.

 

QUOTE(VAfan @ Jul 19, 2006 -> 08:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm surprised no one picked up on Abreu to the Yankees. I fear that more than I fear him going to the Tigers. Even though the Tigers need on-base guys like Abreu in a bad way, he fits the Yankee personality much better. And, as someone pointed out on another thread, we've had more trouble with the good hitting teams than with teams that can pitch. Unless our starting pitching gets a lot better, I'm not eager to face the Yanks in the postseason without Abreu. I'd be even less excited about facing them if they added Abreu to RF and got Matsui back in LF and Cano at 2B. Where's the weak link in that lineup?

 

What would be really sick is if the Yankees got him for essentially nothing in a salary dump. (I hate it most when they just add useful players because they are the only team that can afford to pay them.)

 

BTW -- I would agree that if Philly would take Thames and Minor that the deal would already be done. The main rumor was that Philly wanted one or more of the Tigers' hot minor league pitchers whose name escapes me at the moment.

 

*********************

 

Personally, I wish KW would offer Philly Pods and Haeger (or some equivalent minor league pitcher) for Abreu and $6 million cash (to reduce his 2007 salary to $10 million). Then I'd offer Abreu a two-year extension at $10 million per year for 2008-09 to waive his no-trade and tear up his option and $2 million buyout, as long as the new deal didn't have a full no-trade clause (I'd let him veto a trade to some teams).

 

If Abreu balked, I'd offer $12 million for a 1-year extension on the same terms. The value of this is it would be a whole lot more than the Yankees or Tigers will offer. We also have to give up something to get Philly to eat $6 million in contract money. But if we can get him for even less, by all means do so. As I've mentioned elsewhere, Abreu would be a perfect lead off hitter for this lineup. He has created 67 runs (RC27 =7.76) compared to Pod's 47 runs (RC27=5), and I think he can do even better. (Last year the gap was 122RC -- 9th in baseball -- to 68RC -- 124th in baseball.)

 

Why would the Phillies give cash? Their main reason for trading him (especially for Pods/Haeger or Thames/Miner) is to get his contract off their books. There is no reason for them to throw cash in the deal. Plus Abreu said that he will turn down any trade unless his option is picked up. Why would he want to renegotiate for less money if his option is already picked up?

[Kalapse]

 

"Hi."

Jim Thome kicked ass in the AL for 9 years then switched over the the NL for 2 seasons, I'd hardly compare him to Abreu whom has spent his entire career in the NL.

[gojimthome]

Jim Thome kicked ass in the AL for 9 years then switched over the the NL for 2 seasons, I'd hardly compare him to Abreu whom has spent his entire career in the NL.

 

Ok, fair enough. The point remains the same:

 

[Kalapse]

Ok, fair enough. The point remains the same:

 

Much, much better comparison. Though there is one odd thing about Vlad's transition, check out his OPSs since 2000:

 

'00: MON: 1.074

'01: MON: .943 (-131)

'02: MON: 1.010 (+67)

'03: MON: 1.012 (+2)

'04: ANA: .989 (-23)

'05: LAA: .959 (-30)

'06: LAA: .882 (-77)

[gojimthome]

Much, much better comparison. Though there is one odd thing about Vlad's transition, check out his OPSs since 2000:

 

'00: MON: 1.074

'01: MON: .943 (-131)

'02: MON: 1.010 (+67)

'03: MON: 1.012 (+2)

'04: ANA: .989 (-23)

'05: LAA: .959 (-30)

'06: LAA: .882 (-77)

 

Not too odd. 2003 was the year that his back took a dump.

 

He's been a lesser man since then (but still awfully damned good...And scary as an NL-to-AL transplant). He does look to be on his way out, though. Check out his walk rate this year.

Edited July 20, 2006 by Contreras' Crew

[Kalapse]

Not too odd. 2003 was the year that his back took a dump.

 

He's been a lesser man since then (but still awfully damned good...And scary as an NL-to-AL transplant). He does look to be on his way out, though. Check out his walk rate this year.

Yeah, his slugging percentage is still high this year but his OBP has dropped big time, I guess he's completely lost all plate discipline. Kinda sad if you ask me.

[daa84]

Yeah, his slugging percentage is still high this year but his OBP has dropped big time, I guess he's completely lost all plate discipline. Kinda sad if you ask me.

he never really had plate discipline...his ability to make contact has just decreased

[Kalapse]

he never really had plate discipline...his ability to make contact has just decreased

He was atleast able to walk 61 times last year, he's only taken 23 free passes the year so he probably won't even make it to 50 couple that with his decreased batting average and you have a Vlad who is a shell of his former self.