I'm sure that was exactly KW's thinking, that still doesn't make it right. He also allowed a personality conflict with Foulke to overshadow the whole decision, that's the heart of the matter and is what led him to rationalize away Koch's velocity drop.

In big money situations, Foulke and Koch are pretty much a wash. Koch choked last year in the playoffs, and Foulke choked in the playoffs in '00. In your everyday, run of the mill games, Foulke is more consistent. But to say that the Sox got ripped off in that trade is inaccurate IMO. Yes, it's looking that way at the moment, but hindsight is always 20/20, and at the time, the trade wasn't THAT bad on paper.

Foulke and Koch each have several years in the league, and after watching both for so many times, it just seems odd that Foulke now throws harder.

Quote from JM that I haven't seen anyone else quote...

 

Sox manager Jerry Manuel said Koch's future as the team's closer might be in doubt because of his recent troubles, and Tom Gordon or Damaso Marte could replace him.

 

"You have been on the edge for so long, and now [Koch] finally breaks," Manuel said. "You probably have to try to get better matchups for him—maybe a little earlier in the game."

 

That seems pretty cut and dry to me -- Koch is no longer the closer.

 

Entire article can be read at http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sp...tesox-headlines

Foulke and Koch each have several years in the league, and after watching both for so many times, it just seems odd that Foulke now throws harder.

Good point....kind of funny too

Who knew that would happen?

Billy Beane ?

 

In "MoneyBall" , Beane mentions two times where he actually laughed behind KW's back. One was when KW used the first pick in the draft to choose Royce Ring..... who was traded in the recent Alomar deal, and when KW traded Foulke, MJ, and a PTBNL for Botch and Cotts.

 

Too bad Beane is the only one laughing

Billy Beane  ?

 

In "MoneyBall" , Beane mentions two times where he actually laughed behind KW's back. One was when KW used the first pick in the draft to choose Royce Ring..... who was traded in the recent Alomar deal, and when KW traded Foulke, MJ, and a PTBNL for Botch and Cotts.

 

Too bad Beane is the only one laughing 

I am amazed that any gm will deal with him after that book. I will admit that I never read it, but from everything I have heard about it, it would be really dangerous for any gm to deal with him because there is a good chance that the other gm will not win in the deal or will get screwed seriously. If I were him, I would have waited to write the book until after being a gm.

I am amazed that any gm will deal with him after that book.  I will admit that I never read it, but from everything I have heard about it, it would be really dangerous for any gm to deal with him because there is a good chance that the other gm will not win in the deal or will get screwed seriously.  If I were him, I would have waited to write the book until after being a gm.

missed you Fanof14 -

 

 

the unbounded ego of Beane - you and CK called it right - he has hurt himself and his ability to do his job by bragging so

I think the quotes you read were taken out of context. The book doesn't really make it so a team is afraid of him in all honesty. Actually, I think a lot of gm's believe they could really beat Beane.

 

I think Beane gave us Cotts because Cotts tended to walk guys and I do think Cotts is going to be a very solid pitcher.

 

Beane just has a philosphy on closers, that I completely agree with, you can build their value. A nobody will get a lot of saves (See Rocky Biddle, although I like Rockmeister a lot). But now after this season the Expos could deal Rocky and his value will be very inflated soley cause he was the closer.

 

Fact is a lot of people can do the job.

one good thing about this board of many good things is the exchange of differing perspectives - thanks jas

Foulke wouldn't have done anything either, so shut ur pie wholes.

I like pie.

Foulke wouldn't have done anything either

Look at Foulke's numbers, and look at Botch's. Numbers don't lie. Foulke is, by far, the better closer..... always has been. KW just lets this little thing called "ego" get in the way.

I read "Moneyball" and don't recall seeing the Foulke/Kock trade mentioned. They did linger on the Bradford/Olivo trade quite a bit. When Ring was drafted and Beane heard about it, his reaction was "You've got to be f***ing kidding me!"

 

Also, Beane didn't write this book and brag on himself. The author, who's name escapes now, was simply allowed to observe the inner workings of the A's, and conduct interviews. He reported what he saw and heard.

Something Beane does that doesn't always work is the fact that he just goes by the numbers. That's why he felt Cotts was expendable, or so I assume. With a lot of walks, his stats looked bad, because his W-L was not there, and the innings were not there. If Cotts gets some control, he could be one hell of a starter some day.

 

Then again, when you have Mulder, Hudson, and Zito in your rotation, you can pretty much trade any starter in your minor league system.