wrathofhahn
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Posts posted by wrathofhahn
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I am not really paying attention to this year. Terrible product and with Chris Getz in charge I have no hope for the future. I have never been more disillusioned as a fan.
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8 minutes ago, Snopek said:
If you're only being offered "lame" returns, then that says more about Cease's value than whatever we think it is or want it to be.
Okay, I will admit that. Therefore, all you can do is hold onto him in the hopes that he will regain some value.
He was under control for two more seasons, I don't know why this FO or fanbase felt pressured to finalize a trade.
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Although I am aware that he was only recently hired, he has really underperformed in his scouting work under Hahn, and his work after being promoted to me has been extremely subpar.
Though it might sound crazy, I have already completely lost faith in him as general manager. I do not think any of his offseason moves will pay off. This, in my opinion, is what occurs when you hire someone who performed poorly in their prior position and, for some reason, you give him a promotion.
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40 minutes ago, TheFutureIsNear said:
It’s honestly hard to grade because the reality is that we were all VERY wrong on Cease’s value across the league. It’s hard not to be disappointed because of the collective hope/expectation. I’m curious if rumors will come out on what other offers were.
I’ll say it’s a C for now
Where it is really going to hurt is if the Padres are out of contention and they decide to flip Cease at the deadline.
Because I think they easily beat this return
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I voted D.
For one of the best pitchers in baseball, this is a pretty pitiful return. SD didn't give up any of their best prospects. Although I would have shot higher for Jackson Merrill or Ethan Salas, it is almost criminal that they walked away from the deal while keeping Robby Snelling and Dylan Lesko.
Since Cease was our best remaining asset, this trade hurts. Next year, we would have been in a situation where we would have needed to move him, so I could see us having to make do with this kind of return. Right now? He still has 2 years of control. I am aware that the market is currently soft, but given the circumstances, you are not required to make a deal.
I don't understand why we didn't just wait until the deadline instead of taking this poo platter.
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9 hours ago, hankchifan said:
Off. Field issues could actually get worse for TA in Miami, with all the action in South Beach, and hot women everywhere.
Whatever Tim Anderson ends up being at least there is potential that he can rebound and have a good year. Dejong is just awful.
Which has been the theme all offseason we replace guys who had down/terrible years with awful baseball players. So where is the improvement going to come from? Tim Anderson, Grandal, etc were at least bounceback candidates I am not saying I wanted them back but at least last year as a fan I could tell myself Grandal and Anderson are going to hit because they have their entire careers basically.
Dejong and Maldonado are never going to hit or be anything except marginal players. In fact if either of those guys even ended up being a marginal contributor that would be a huge positive as far as I'm concerned I don't think either are going to have positive wars or be in the lineup when the season ends.-
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4 hours ago, Chimpton said:
No matter how well TA does in Miami, and I hope he does well, it was the right decision to part company with him. The relationship between TA and the White Sox was clearly not working anymore and he had gone stale. If he had stayed then a marginally better season was probably all we would have got, hopefully a fresh environment will spark an upturn in his form.
From a White Sox point of view it was probably best to cut ties and rebuild a new clubhouse atmosphere without his presence even if he wasn't the cause of all the bad clubhouse rumours recently. I know the 2b SS options this season are hardly inspiring but this was going to be a write off season no matter what.
I am so tired hearing about the clubhouse. Maybe he was a problem, maybe he wasnt.
Regardless this team is going to lose 100 games. Whether it loses it with a good clubhouse or a bad one quite frankly I don't care and neither should anyone else.
What this team goal should be is not trading or signing glue clubhouse guys on shortterm deals who can't play but finding talent who are bounceback candidates. Those guys are often going to have stigmas attached to them whether it's something they did off the field, or not being a great clubhouse guy, or coming off a terrible year or even some combination on the three.
People are acting like we can sit back and be choosy at who we offer shortterm contracts. We are like a homeless dude thumbing our nose at someone offering McDonalds demanding to go to In'N'Out instead. We are going to lose 100+ games and are openly in a rebuild we are not that attractive of a destination either. There is a decent chance if we offered 1/5M he goes to Miami anyways. The issue for me is all offseason I didn't see us targeting the guys we should.
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I said at the time that Tim Anderson option wasn't some sure thing last year. I am not surprised it was declined and basically had to accept crumbs this free agency.
He was historically bad last year and isn't really a SS anymore. I am torn though because 1/5M is exactly the type of deal we should have been doing ourselves and really didn't sign much in the way of bounceback candidates. Whatever this year is going to suck regardless
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On 2/3/2024 at 3:41 PM, WhiteSox2023 said:
The team needs veteran leaders that are also good baseball players, not a bunch of veteran leaders that are too old, can’t hit, and mostly flat out suck like the ones Getz acquired.
Hey at least teams acquire washed up veterans who used to be good, Getz is acquiring washed up veterans who were never good.
He's cornering the market!
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2 hours ago, caulfield12 said:
Thus the onset of the Keith Law Grudge against KW and all things White Sox.
Gord Ash and the Blue Jays front office at the time steadfastly believed that KW sold them damaged goods. If memory serves they even tried to have the trade rescinded.
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Its not a bad trade but we would have gotten more at last years deadline.
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3 hours ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:
Yeah this has been ridiculous. Joey Ortiz isn’t Nick Madrigal. He can actually play shortstop and he impacts the baseball.
Can he hit enough to start? I don't really have high hopes for him as a premium prospect. I'd be fine getting him back but to me his upside is José Iglesias and his sort of floor is John McDonald.
To me the big issue with Ortiz isn't the player it's how others view him. I'm fine with taking him back but not as a headliner.
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On 2/2/2024 at 10:02 AM, fathom said:
They’re very similar players, and if Madrigal played in the minors his age 25 season, probably would have put up insane numbers. No one disliked his time with the Sox more than Harold and I, but he put up ridiculous defensive numbers last year. I know I posted the YouTube highlights from Ortiz time in the majors last year, and it was shocking how similar their hitting styles were.
I don’t particular like the fit for the Brewers with Ortiz, as you’re not getting nearly enough power from 3/4 of your future infield in Turang, Ortiz and Black.
The major difference between Ortiz and Madrigal is there is a bit more size to his frame. I am not a fan of either player but there never was any power potential in Madrigal. He is and was a midget. I think he was 5-6 I pointed out from day one he was never going to hit for any power. Expecting power from a guy with his build and height was stupid.
Ortiz has never really hit for power in the minors either so his power is definitely a concern as well but Madrigal approach at the plate is much more advanced he makes way more contact and better contact he just will never hit for anything other than double power because physically he is over-matched. Which is why like I said at the time when we drafted him he would be a wasted pick. I am not surprised at all how he turned out.
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7 hours ago, ron883 said:
Joey Ortiz will be a stud and not Nick Madrigal 2.0. Book it.
Ha.
If this was what was being offered good on Getz for saying no. He can't control if the Brewers want to bend over for the O's. It sucks the Brewers came in and took the O's scraps and 25+ year old prospects but nothing you can do.
Personally, I have always thought we should hold onto Cease until the deadline. That is when you have the most leverage and with the new rules the worst move Getz could make at this point would be to trade Cease because clearly if that is the return for Burnes then there isn't a market for starting pitching right now.
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On 1/29/2024 at 1:23 PM, southsider2k5 said:
There is literally no good reason to spend actual assets trying to compete in 2024. Sure we need to fill out a roster, find some guys who can fill some innings and not kill the guys you want to be around long term, or could have value as trade assets. But other than that we KNOW this team is a dumpster fire. There is zero reason to think about 2024 as anything other than adding for down the road.
If we want to talk about fantasy trades, we should be targeting as much volume and quality as we can for 2026 and beyond. Target starting pitching and up the middle players. I am not going to pretend to know other teams systems, but high ceilings and skill positions have to be top targets. The goal is to find WAR to replace Cease, down the road, with a shooting for the stars view of finding 3 starters, including at least 1 star player.
We should be trading for and signing high upside players with an eye of flipping them later.
Filling the roster full of hot garbage is not how to rebuild in MLB. You don't rebuild through the draft unless you want to wait 4-5 years. You rebuild via trades.
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3 hours ago, caulfield12 said:
You get what you deserve, Baltimore and Angelos.
In all seriousness, don't see this ending well. He probably orders the GM to strip the team for parts...trading away their entire farm system to create a JR-esque Washington Generals clone team.
$1.7+ billion purchasing price. Predatory capitalism at its finest. Got a great price without a premium for that farm system and unprecedented financial flexibility, at least.
Less than 300 murders in 9 years, 11,000 cars stolen last year with 450 this year so far, 30 year lease on a 32 y/o stadium. So as soon as they won their 100th game, who didn't see this coming.
Yeah I see it playing out the opposite. Angelos already has the team pretty well stripped down for payroll. He was one of the cheapest owner in sports.
Hedge fund managers don't treat sports teams commonly as their other investments. They treat it as a luxury yaht or sports car. They make their money other ways and view sports teams as expensive toys
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13 hours ago, WhiteSox2023 said:
I really don’t care about Jerry’s money, but to what end? Other than a pricey deadline trade candidate if he has a big first half, Teoscar doesn’t help this Sox team win anything in 2024.
I would have preferred we done something like Atlanta did with the Mariner take some big short term money back for a prospect who has struggled with a ton of control.
If we were going to take on 20M+. I mean it's not like Geatz was going to be able to spend that money wisely elsewhere anyways. Might as well take on veteran trash for something rather than just giving away the money for nothing like MM.
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We should honestly be holding onto Cease unless a team blows us away with an offer. Teams will offer more at the deadline and cease hopefully will have a bounceback year.
As Mike Tyson famously said everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth. Almost every year teams overrate their own pitching situation then injuries take hold, guys underperform, and the realization comes that actually they don't have the horses for a deep playoff run.
With the new format there are always going to be more buyers than sellers the premium price for a frontline guy starting the playoffs will be much more rather than just a guy to plug a hole which lets be honest that is more of the mindset at this point for most teams.
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15 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:
A guy, who hasn’t thrown a pitch in the MLB, just got 10 years, $326M. Gambling on essentially 2/$50M isn’t that crazy.
If he was younger or had a year pitching away from surgery then sure.
But I'd ask the question lets say he was 33 coming off TJ and 2022 would he get 2/50 in this market. For me the answer is no. He also has a PO so even if your gamble plays out he will likely opt out and leave.
SFG take all the future risks with almost no upside. I honestly have no idea why MLB teams do these type of contracts. He also is going to miss probably close to the first half of next year, probably pitch around 100 innings if he manages to stay healthy and play well, and for that SFG are taking on 2/50 in future risk.
That is a bad bet to me.
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I don't get this at all for the SFG. I mean if Ray was healthy and not coming off an arm injury it would be a fair deal but to absorb that much salary for a guy who hasn't even pitched yet.
These GM's are being extremely dumb taking risks on guys coming of TJ. He has what 3/75 remaining. One year is a wash due to what they traded but that is still 50M for a guy who is going to 33-34 for those last two years and you don't even know what he will be this year.
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On 1/5/2024 at 2:14 PM, ChiSox59 said:
11 days since this was reported, and still not official. I am sure he was just out of country and waiting to do the physical after the holidays, but a little surprised that wasn't taken care of this week.
This team is so dumb. Like dumb as a bag of rocks and if we are ever going to win anything with a mid payroll we need to be smarter than teams like the dodgers.
I am starting to become numb to it. Like there is literally no reason to watch games next year our farm sucks and we signed/traded for mostly a bunch of old no to little upside players. For people talking about this dude being able to handle a pitching staff he ranked near the bottom in pitch framing, pitchers pitched better with the other catchers, he led the league in passed balls (12) while only playing 116 games, and he had a 14 percent CS that is without even getting into his hitting which atrocious.
Just f'n god awful in every way. Oh and he is 37 so it may not even be the bottom. I literally have zero idea what people are expecting leadership? He can't play and he is here for the money how is he going to be respected in the clubhouse when he is hitting .125 and leading the league in PB. Players on this team know what this is and what he is at this point.
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1 hour ago, Balta1701 said:
Because supply and demand are very different at the trade deadline.
LAA was clearly motivated by trying to make a wild card with Ohtani. They had a 2 month ticking clock and very few options. There are no ticking clocks right now.
That is why we should be fine waiting until the deadline. He if healthy will be worth the most
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20 hours ago, WhiteSox2023 said:
Exactly. Been saying this.
I don't know what we are expecting why are we expecting a fresh perspective when they didnt go outside the organization? Probably going to tune out the season what is the point? The guys they brought in have little upside.
Just wasting their fans time. I'll circle back once the draft kicks around.
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On 12/27/2023 at 8:52 AM, Quin said:
I feel like Maldonado or Stassi will be cut by the end of May after hitting .150 and one of Hackenberg, Lee or Perez will be called up.
I really don't get it.
Stassi was worth the flyer because we got him for free basically and he has been good in the past. I was fine with that move.
I mean if he has .680-.700 OPS which is doable he could be worth 1-2 WAR. Of course the risk is he doesn't hit at all but he is basically just a flyer.
Maldonado won't hit. Has never hit. And at 37 his defense has taken a massive step back furthermore Lee and Stassi are basically the same profile only younger and better. I'd be interested to see what Sanchez signs for because at least with him there is upside with his bat and because of that he offers something a bit different than Stassi and Lee. I suspect he would have jumped at 1/4 with a PO. Sigh but what can you do.
For me this offseason what has been most depressing about this team isn't even the opportunities we missed out on it's how we havent really changed the direction of our thinking and approach. This could have easily just have been Hahn FA and noone would have noticed the difference.
Jake Burger
in Pale Hose Talk
Posted
No spot for him to play and he is a marginal DH. We sold high on him. Let it go folks.