wrathofhahn
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Posts posted by wrathofhahn
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I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Clevinger is extended that is the only reason to keep him past the deadline is if they are engaged in talks and close to agreement on an extension. If not it is a massive mistake by Hahn he has pitched well he could have netted us a decent return,
Grandal is easy to understand he had no value and if you are going to have to eat his deal you might as well just have him finish out the year since there is noone ready to take his spot.
Ditto for Anderson. Dejong went for a song. Anderson has similar value at this point so it makes sense to hold onto him if he bounces back he can always be moved in the offseason or just kept on his option. I was in favor of moving him but clearly the demand wasn't there.
Cease doesn't make sense to move if the FO plans to retool and spend money next year.
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The one knock I have on him is he didn't move Mike Clevinger I find it hard to believe we couldn't get something of value for him
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The main problem with this lineup is there is no middle class either the players are hitting well or not at all.
That needs to change you can't have as many guys the sox do 7 with below .700 ops and above 150 PA and expect to win. Not to mention the bullpen has been mostly a disaster too and the infield defense is a mess.
It's not a homerun problem its a hitting problem period
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33 minutes ago, Polar Bear said:
That is a terribly written scouting report from someone who apparently is overwhelmed and lost with their job
Could be.
Either way it's Middleton I wasnt expecting a whole lot for him anyways.
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I very much doubt he averages 2WAR over the next five years.
Both Streamer and Zips in season calculations has his value between 0.2 WAR and 0.4 WAR this year
The reality is what he is doing currently isnt sustainable. Fan favorite aside this was a trade that had to be made wish him the best but he's gone and we made the correct call/bet by trading him. if he somehow corrects his approach at the plate and manages to sustain his success all the more power to him but his iso numbers right now are higher than the career ISO of Schwaber, Ohtani, and Alonso he is going to come down to earth at some point and unless his plate discipline and ability to put balls in play improve it isn't going to be pretty
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48 minutes ago, Polar Bear said:
Yeah for me that is a red flag because there is a major difference between throwing SL and CH for swinging strikes in the ML vs MLB working off an average FB
QuoteHere is his MLB.com scouting report
Scouting grades: Fastball: 50 | Slider: 55 | Changeup: 45 | Control: 45 | Overall: 40
The Yankees zeroed in on Carela in the Dominican Republic because of his projectability, and his fastball jumped from the upper 80s to the low 90s just before he signed for $335,000 in July 2018. He touched 96 mph during the Dominican Summer League that fall, but he posted a 6.90 ERA in his first two pro seasons. He finally found success when he threw more strikes in Single-A last year, though his control regressed following a promotion to High-A in August.
Carela employs two versions of a fastball, ranging from 90-96 mph with a sinking two-seamer and a riding four-seamer. He also has two sliders: a low-80s sweeper that the Yankees favor and a traditional slide piece with tighter break in the mid-80s. The sweeper has more upside than any of his pitches, though he falls in love with it too much.
Carela's mid-80s changeup lags behind the rest of his pitches and could use more life and velocity separation from his fastball. One of the more athletic pitchers in the system, he has a clean arm action and should be able to locate his offerings better than he has. His ability to improve his control and command will determine whether he becomes a No. 4 starter vs. a slider-happy reliever.
By the sounds of things he maybe someone who needs to move to the bullpen to see if he can gain a cpl of miles on his fastball
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1 hour ago, TheFutureIsNear said:
The amount of people just casually glossing over a .279 OBP is a little crazy honestly. It’s been said 50 times already, yes Jake is an awesome guy all around and easy to root for, but it doesn’t change the fact that he just isn’t good at making contact with a baseball. If I’m not mistaken he’d be on pace to easily break the strike out record in a season if he was a full time player all year.
Wish Burger the best and would happily eat crow if he improves over the next couple of years…but I do think this was the smart time to trade him.
I really think Burger will be a .725 ish OPS at best player moving forward unless he drastically improves his plate discipline.
You couple that with his bad defense at 3rd and I don't get the reluctance doing the deal. It reminds me when Avisaíl García hit .330 in 2017 every Sox fan knew his BABIP wasn't sustainable but noone wanted to move him. Well the next year his value completely cratered.
I think funny enough he was 26 or 27 then too. Here is the thing can Burger develop a better approach at age 28+ sure but it's pretty rare. I'll take my chances on the frontline pitching prospect instead.
Because if you hit on him you have a frontline starter for the next 6-7 years. If you correct Burger approach at the plate you at best have a good hitting 1B/DH valuable but not in the same category. We also have Vaughn and Eloy two guys who approaches at the plate and bat profiles project out to have much longer sustained careers in MLB.
As far as I'm concerned we really didn't lose anything in the deal because Burger was not a longterm answer at 3rd and there isn't a spot at 1B and/or DH for him,
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1 minute ago, YonderLaroche said:
Should have swallowed pride and traded Cease and Robert. They'll be gone before the next window opens anyway. Grandal should have been moved. Should have tacked on TA and Moncada with Robert and Cease. Liam should be gone. Even benetendi as salary dump.
Grandal and Anderson have no value. He should have moved them earlier but it is what it is.
Beni I would have moved but he has term to him not sure teams were ready to commit to a LF with term when rental guys were available like Teoscar
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Much of this was him getting out of mistakes of his own making but for me it's an easy A.
I also have zero confidence in his ability to use the savings in salary properly in FA but just evaluating it separately from Hahn performance as a whole all the trades were pretty much homeruns.
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Just now, GreenSox said:
Burger is cheaper, has more control and room for growth. In a rebuild type of situation, he's the one to keep. And if they're really "going for it" next season, they probably shouldn't have traded either one of them.
And then rebuilding, but not trading Cease at what is probably peak value.
It's all kind of strange.Look I never wanted Vaughn I thought it was a mistake to draft him. However, I don't really get the room for growth argument for Burger. He's 27. I think Vaughn baseline hitting skills and approach at the plate give him a much better chance at longterm success at the MLB level.
Unless the argument his contact and walk numbers are so bad that he doesn't have to improve much to be better. However, I very much doubt he continues his .313 iso slugging numbers either.
I mean you look at Pete Alonso and he's averaged 45 homeruns per 162 games over his career. He has a career .276 iso percentage and he couples that with a much more selective professional approach at the plate. The way Burger is currently playing right now longterm just isn't sustainable.
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If the stuff is still there this is a tremendous move. These are exactly the type of moves Hahn should be making every year instead of investing tens of million into the bullpen
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Just now, South Side Fireworks Man said:
And Eloy is flawless.
He is a much better hitter. I get it Burger is a fan favorite but this trade is a homerun
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12 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:
The White Sox have sort of developed Sale (not really), Rodon and Chris Bassitt in a decade.
That's it.
And they will probably be implementing a new pitching lab (finally) with Katz (likely) leaving...so not much trust there in Hahn and Getz.
Go back earlier you can add McCarthy and Hudson....so five successes in almost two decades.
I just each trade on its merits not whom the organization has or has not developed.
3 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:This one makes me sad even though it may turn out OK. Jake was fun, and he was starting to take walks.
I don't live month to month with players. He is going to have to demonstrate improved plate discipline a lot longer than four games (five of those eleven walks in july happened in his last four games) before I am convinced he is a totally different player than I've seen for the rest of the first three years of his career.
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27 minutes ago, wegner said:
He was traded to Miami, not Tampa
Correct in my old age I always get the two florida teams confused not sure why
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2 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:
I don't recall Gavin ever being Top Ten in homers for all of MLB at any point in his career.
He has a .214 BA, .279 OBP and is 27. Yes he has tower power but so did Gavin and a million other players entering the MLB.
It is going to be very hard to almost impossible for him to maintain his numbers if he can't get on base or hit for an average. Maybe the Rays manage to unlock that in him best of luck but I'll take the frontline pitching prospect and run
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Just now, The Kids Can Play said:
Yeah the brilliance of the genius Hahn to force out the guys like Gio and Burger with great attitudes and keep the toxic cancer of TA, Moncada and Grandal!
Her is a novel idea, why don't they get rid of the GM and his front office toxic culture.
I wanted to move Tim but look at Dejong return the value isn't there. Teams want guys who have been playing well for their title run.
Rays severely overpaid for control on a guy who is unlikely to replicate his current season moving forward. If they can fix his approach great all the more power to them but I'll take my chances on a frontline pitching prospect over a 27 year old 1B/DH whose approach at the plate needs work.
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Just now, bmags said:
I do wonder if Jake can find more walks with better tools. Maybe marlins are that now not sure.
But if he can, then he's a right handed schwarber. Just absolutely torches balls.
His slugging numbers are going to be very hard to maintain over the course of his career unless his approach at the plate changes and he manages to get on base more.
I am more than fine with the move. He could easily be Galvin Sheets in a couple of years unless he figures out to have more plate discpline.
For that we got a front-line pitching prospect.
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4 minutes ago, bmags said:
Eder is also the #2 prospect in the latest updated team rankings from BA (and much props to them for targeting their update BEFORE the deadline. Love that group)
Yeah didn't see fangraphs list. MLB.com doesn't update as often people need to realize he is going to rise when they redo their lists. He is easily a top 100 prospect at this point
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3 minutes ago, wegner said:
Would also have rather moved Vaughn and slid Burger over to 1B. Burger would have been a better defensive 1B and Vaughn just looks lost.
But Burger was blocking Remillard, who can now play more 2B so there is that.
Anytime you get a chance to trade a non-elite 1B/DH for a frontline pitching prospect you do the deal.
I like Burger but if Elder develops into what he is capable of we easily win the trade. Elder may not be on a top 100 prospect list now but he will be when they redo the list. It is an easy trade to make.
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From Herald 1D ago:
Jake Eder continues to return to form With each passing start this season, left-handed pitcher Jake Eder (Miami’s No. 4 ranked prospect) is looking more like the pitcher who dominated before undergoing Tommy John surgery in August 2021. Eder’s latest outing came on Saturday, when he struck out 10 batters and allowed just two runs (one earned run) on one hit (a home run), two walks and one hit batter over 5 2/3 innings for Double A Pensacola. It was the deepest into a game Eder has pitched since returning to action in June and the 10 strikeouts are the second most in his minor-league career, behind only the 12 he had in his first-ever minor-league start on May 6, 2021. Eder utilizes a three-pitch mix: a fastball that sits between 93-96 mph and touches 98, a low-80s slider and a low-80s changeup.
Read more at: https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/mlb/miami-marlins/article277805008.html#storylink=cpy
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3 minutes ago, hogan873 said:
Marlins #4 prospect. Nice.
He will move up the lists after the season. He has front-line stuff has protypical size and pitches left handed. He has dominated once they promoted him to AA.
Per MLB:
Scouting grades: Fastball: 60 | Slider: 60 | Changeup: 50 | Control: 50 | Overall: 50
Though Eder flashed first-round stuff at Vanderbilt and notched a three-inning save in the 2019 College World Series clincher, a lack of consistency prevented him from cracking the Commodores' weekend rotation until his junior year. His stuff and control regressed during the shortened 2020 season, enabling the Marlins to grab him in the fourth round for an over-slot $700,000. Sent to Double-A for his 2021 pro debut, he dominated until blowing out his elbow that August and requiring Tommy John surgery that cost him all of last season.
Eder displayed a plus fastball and slider throughout the 2021 season before he got hurt, and a pro scout with another organization called him the best pitching prospect in baseball. His four-seamer sat at 93-96 mph and touched 98 with ride up in the zone, and he commanded it better than he ever had. He also tightened up his low-80s slider, generating more horizontal action and locating it with more precision than before.
Eder also made strides with a low-80s changeup that offers some fade and tumble. Most importantly, he threw all three pitches for strikes after a history of inconsistent control and command. If his stuff returns after his elbow reconstruction and that polish is for real, he should become at least a No. 3 starter and perhaps more.
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Elder is a pretty highly regarded prospect to get for a DH at this point. Very good return
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4 hours ago, wegner said:
Oh yeah, forgot about him but he probably has zero trade value....Sheets
Andrus and Sheets should be just DFA'ed.
They aren't going to get us anything. Another guy who could get us something is Santos. I know it would be hard to part with him because he has control but that is exactly what makes him attractive to other teams especially small to midmarket teams in need of help which don't have much wiggle room in term of financials.
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I don't want to trade the guys with control.
The guys I most want to move are Anderson, Clevinger, Benintendi (if there is interest), and Bummer if the prospects are there because relievers are the most replaceable.
I'd also move Grandal, Unfortunately I don't see us getting much back for these guys maybe we could package Clevinger and Bummer and get a top 100. Just clear salary and start over.
Burger To Marlins
in The Diamond Club
Posted
Clevinger has pitched well enough and still has good stuff he is likely to get a multi year offer in free agency. I would be shocked if he exorcised his option it just makes almost no sense.