DukeNukeEm
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Posts posted by DukeNukeEm
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Of couse, they aren't innocent. The whole problem is that as one becomes drunk, they lose agency. You no longer make decisions the same way (you do it worse), you don't make decisions as quickly, you don't react, you lose coordination, etc. etc. We're a progressive society that is mostly happy for you to live your life this way. But since you are licensed to drive around a rolling killing machine, we have decided you need to have something approximating your very best motor skills and judgment when you operate that vehicle.
It isn't, "I'm only guilty if I cause harm because I was drunk." That assumes that one of your drunk driving events was different from another. You made a bad call the time you hit somebody and not the time you didn't. This isn't the case. You were always equally likely to kill somebody, the circumstances around you just changed the time you killed somebody.
In many places, getting caught driving drunk is a life changing act and it should be. My older brother got a DUI and lost his license for all purposes for 60 days while he had to submit to random breathalyzer tests, then got a restricted license that required him to operate only vehicles with a breathalyzer attached to the ignition -- a system that cost 200 to install and 50 per month to maintain -- for two years. He lost around $10,000 after paying fines, lawyer, and drunk driving classes that allowed his sentence and other punishments to be as "slight" as they were. If I weren't willing to drive him to work for 60 days, he would have had to quit his job.
...and I'm okay with that. It's extremely easy to not drive drunk. The risk involved in driving drunk is colossal compared to the already-high risks associated with driving a car.
I also lost a brother in a drunk driving accident that he caused -- I wish he would have gotten a DUI, too, because maybe he wouldn't have decided that it wasn't a problem to drive drunk until you get into an accident, because that's how we learn our limits.
I'll put it in libertarian terms, because I know it means more to you. We have agreed as a society that driving a car requires some level of aptitude. It isn't a ton, you basically need to just be an adult, know the law sorta well, and drive for 10 minutes with a state worker without scaring the s*** out of them. These are the minimal restraints we need on motor transport to make sure we don't have pure calamity. Allowing drunk people to drive erases all of that - not only are they no longer rational actors that are able to make decisions for their own good, this infringes upon my right to be alive. Allowing drunk drivers to persist until something bad happens is like inciting a riot: if you start a riot for no reason, that's bad! This is a basic restriction on free speech. We aren't dealing in speech here, but we are dealing in breaking the social trust that keeps this entire thing together.
Or to think of this in another way...
Roughly 40% of all traffic deaths involve drunk drivers.
20% of transport drivers tested after an accident are drunk.
30% of all Americans will be involved in an alcohol-related accident before they die
In 1979, when nationwide changes began to enforce DUI laws without the prerequisite of an accident, there 50,000 traffic deaths, 60% of which were caused by drunk drivers. In 2012, there were 34,000 traffic deaths, between 1/3 and 40% were caused by drunk drivers (data collection is incomplete since people aren't happy to just admit they were drunk). That already looks great -- now consider that American cars drove twice as many miles on aggregate.
If you eliminate drunk driving, you have eliminated the bulk of the inherent risk of death when driving. Our society relies on driving to function, especially given our terrible infrastructure and lack of public transport options.
Of course, we still do much, much worse in all regards, total per capita and alcohol-related traffic deaths, compared to places like the UK and Australia.
Here's the thing, and you already know this about me, I don't necessarily care about the lives saved by anything. Sometimes I pretend to, because I'm an asshole, but much more often I don't think the consequence of outlawing human behavior is really relevant. The way I see it once you go down that route it's one big slippery slope where everything is nerfed in this country so nobody gets hurt or feels bad. In just the time I've been alive, 90's, 00's and 10's I've noticed this slide markedly. I don't like it, George Carlin had a quote I really like that goes something like "were adding years to life, but not living to years." And he's right, all of us know he's right.
Even if the event of fatal DUI crashes there's no malice. Most of the time they're not bad people. Now I'm willing to say if you wreck someone's s*** or kill them it's time for you to become acquainted with the criminal justice system, but in a vast majority of these cases were just creating criminals. Some guy at .10 driving 4 blocks home from the bar at 2 AM gets clipped at a DUI checkpoint (WHICH WE ACTUALLY STAND BY AND LET EXIST BECAUSE WE'RE SO f***ING SUBSERVIENT TO THE STATE) and now he's a criminal. He could be made into a felon. There were no victims, nobody got hurt; but now imaginary buzzed dude in his Monte Carlo is a criminal.
Look, there's a line that people probably shouldn't cross. Would I be ripping coke from the filter of the Parliament casually drinking a 12 pack on some chemically induced blitz ride in an old M3 from Roanoke VA to Bangor ME now? No. And not just because I'd lose my job but because I don't want to risk it anymore. Personal responsibility, although nobody got hurt (and that is a very important point in and of itself, 1000 miles of that s*** without a scratch) I just won't do it anymore. The thing is I trust myself and the people around me to know when they've hit that point. I live and work amongst these people, statistically I'm much more likely to be killed by them than anyone in this thread, but I don't fear it constantly because I figure if someone was too far gone to drive they just wouldnt. Sure some will, but that's just a risk we have to live with.
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I'm also holding back intense amount of frustration at the rampant use of the word clip to describe a magazine. I can't anymore. It hurts.
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The biggest trigger to repeated drunk driving is doing it without having something bad happen. This is why it's illegal. It hopefully stops anyone from doing it once, but if they do, it drastically increases the chance of "something bad" happening without increasing the chance somebody dies.
So let's make bad things happen to innocent people! If the concern here was just to make the roads safer they'd be going after cell phone use 10 times as hard as they are drinking.
Not saying they wont, it's already kind of started, but people like their phones for now and haven't been brainwashed into thinking they are murderers for reading a text.
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I meant that they were, my phone auto corrected AWD to AND because it's sentient. All AWD really means is your FWD car can send power the rear wheels too sometimes.
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Where are you headed from/to? You could take I-80/94 to the Toll Road and then IN 39 up to New Buffalo to get back on I-94. That is, unless that wreck has eastbound I-94 backed up past the Toll Road exit.
Just W of Janesville WI to The D. My cons appt isn't until 1300 tomorrow so I'm just going to cut in at Gary for the night and let INDoT do some some overnight plowing.
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It is further west. I-94 is essentially shutdown in both directions at Michigan City for an accident involving at least two, but as many as 7 semis, plus other cars.
Well f***. Guess I get to stare at Gary hookers patrolling that T/A tonight.
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Ugh, I'm actually supposed to pass through NWI this evening. How bad is 80/94? Should I just take the Skyway?
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Pretty sure you can drink responsibly one night and wake up sober the next morning. If you drink so much that you're not sober by the time you have to go to your job (and yours just happens to be driving a massive vehicle on public roads), you have a problem.
Doesn't matter what I'm driving. The .04 limit applies to a f***ing riding lawnmower.
And yea, if I work myself up to a .14ish at home passing out at 2 AM and drive 3 miles to get an omelette at 7-8 AM you can bet there's something still floating around in my system. Even though I'm probably just hungover and the only effect alcohol is still having is a headache.
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There's no "by definition" as it varies from person to person and day to day.
Sounds like you're making excuses for not being able to stop yourself from drinking more than legally allowed.
Well I obviously can't even drink at night and drive the next morning anymore because my limit is .04. And if I get one I'm Royally f***ed. So yea, I have the self control even if I'm playing by an absolutely ridiculous set of rules.
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You don't know for certain, which is why you have a universal law without exception. It's not like DUI laws and increased enforcement haven't had substantial impacts.
http://report.nih.gov/nihfactsheets/ViewFa...et.aspx?csid=24
If you can't control yourself and not be over 0.08 before driving, you have a problem.
.08 is by definition two beers. Two. As in 2. 1 + 1.
That's not a matter of self control. That's a matter of blunt force solutions to relatively nonexistent problems. The drunks out on the roads are no more likely to kill you than half blind Grandpa or riced out Corolla treating public roads like the Monaco GP.
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Because it isn't just your ass, it is also the person who you killed.
Here we are on the path to the Minority Report argument that I'm not sure if I've had on ST yet. Let's just go through the formalities:
But how do you from certain a guy after 3 beers is going to kill someone? How do you even know who's fault it actually is when if one driver has a drop in his system everyone just gives up investigating and exclaims "DRUNK DRIVING KILLS BOOM /GAVEL"?
It's .04 for CDL's nationwide no matter what we're driving. I could be riding a bike at .05 and I get a DUI. Ludicrous.
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AND is vastly different than 4WD. I love spinning my little RWD Miata around in the snow. Throw the all seasons on (lol) and it basically goes sideways if I even turn the steering wheel
Most fun you can have in a car is a footish of snow, an empty parking lot and a Mazda Miata on summer tires.
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There's probably a pretty good correlation there between population density as well. Millions of people live in chicago, new york, LA, etc. and can easily take public transportation or a taxi or just walk a mile or so to the bar.
Well, you'd have to struggle to get pulled over for a DUI in Chicago. Maybe wrong way down Lake Shore Dr in reverse with your left turn signal on would get them to at least breathalyze you.
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Having driven through South Dakota probably a hundred times during the summers, I assure you this is simply not the case.
Also, I can feel the effect one beer has one me, but I'm not buzzed. Yes, it's cheesy, but buzzed driving is drunk driving.
Oh no it is f***ing not. Drunk driving is drunk driving. Since when are people so gullible when it comes to this s***? You all drink, right? You know. Why is it not enough to just say "it's up to you if you had too much but if you kill someone it's your ass"?
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That depends on what state you live in. North Dakota has a .08 limit, and I have blown and tested out what I can legally do.
I can have 3 beers pretty easily and drive home, so long as I wait 2 hours to drive. If I shotgun 3 beers and drive immediately after that, I'm SOL. The most I will drink while still driving home is 5 beers, and I will make sure it's been - at a minimum - 4 hours prior to driving home. If I have a 6 pack, I'm getting a ride.
Im pretty sure those crazed MADD whores have coerced the federal govt into withholding highway funds from any state not at .08. I could be wrong.
Just an fyi- if you can just feel the effect of booze it doesn't mean you are impaired. Something nobody seems to point out when these loons lobby for (and get) these totalitarian nanny state laws passed
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So if I go down to Daley Plaza and just start spinning around and shooting a gun aimlessly, I'm cool until someone actually gets hurt, in your opinion?
Equating that to driving after drinking 3 beers (That's a DUI in our f***ed in the head country) is stupid.
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It's not as dangerous as people make it out to be. This teenage girl that weighs like 110 lbs was legally drunk and high on scripts managed to drag race a Lamborghini without incident. There's maybe 50 people in this country that are actually f***ed up at .10; much less .08.
It's all about control and the pockets of criminal defense lawyers who would be on SNAP if those laws went away.
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That comment about Indians and affording stuff took an enviable amount of balls to say. Seriously, the f***ing stones on that guy to actually say that!
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Im not misinterpreting anything. If I got busted doing what he did, I would expect a s***storm coming my way, US citizen or not. Just because you did it doesnt make it "not that bad of an offense".
When I did it nobody got hurt. When Bieber did it nobody got hurt. Where's the victim?
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JB will not get the sentence he deserves because drunk driving sentences are way too light in general. First offense should be 30 days in jail and 6 months suspended license. Second offense should be a year in jail and 5 years suspended license. Third offense should be 10 years in jail and permanently suspended license. No exceptions.
Whoaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
That's harsh.
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I think you're misinterpreting my post. This really isn't that bad of an offense, I've definitely done similar s***. So have many.
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Come on now, Lindsay Lohan got coked up, stole a car, got in an accident trying to run someone off the road, and didnt get 6 months in jail. And that was just one incident
Isn't Lindsey Lohan an American citizen?
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He pretty much has, but he made ludicrous money over media frenzy so if they decide to lynch him for this I won't feel bad. I genuinely dislike everything about him.
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We are all victims of Justin Bieber because we are constantly exposed to stories like this that are f***ing retarded and nobody should care about but somehow we do. But, in this particular instance, who did he actually hurt to warrant 6 months in jail?
Bieber got a DUI
in SLaM
Posted
I really dont, but I don't really have the choice not to. Society, etc.