StrangeSox

volokh provides a description of how self-defense law works http://www.volokh.com/2013/07/14/burden-an...n-self-defense/

QUOTE (G&T @ Jul 14, 2013 -> 07:29 PM) Well that has nothing to do with Florida law, that's how it works anywhere. The law requires that the govt proves its case. People always come up with some defense, usually by pointing to another guy. The govt has to show that it was THIS defendant, thereby proving it wasn't someone else. the government proved that Zimmerman killed Trayvon. Nobody questioned that. It relied on a self-defense claim, which is apparently a pretty easy affirmative defense hurdle to clear in Florida.

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Jul 14, 2013 -> 04:57 PM) No, I wouldn't, as I know the definition of stalking. Seems nobody wants to read an actual statute. I think you're getting wrapped in the technical, legal definition of stalking and not as a colloquial description of what Zimmerman was doing.

QUOTE (zenryan @ Jul 14, 2013 -> 02:57 PM) I think its pretty he didnt follow this case. Just got the bullet points from whatever news agency he followed 16 months ago. Remember when you scolded someone for being ignorant and told them that Zimmerman didn't take any grappling or boxing classes? That was hilarious.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jul 14, 2013 -> 10:22 AM) What's truly unfortunate is the 5 minutes I just spent reading facebook comments on an NBC 5 update. Good God, there are some truly stupid people out there. this is universally true

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archiv...mmerman/277772/

QUOTE (zenryan @ Jul 13, 2013 -> 10:12 PM) Wasnt found innocent remember, just not guilty. I wouldn't be surprised if it ends up like OJ, winning the criminal trial but losing huge in the civil trial.

QUOTE (Jake @ Jul 13, 2013 -> 09:48 PM) In the end, they just didn't have a great case. I think Zimmerman needlessly killed an innocent person and should be punished, but I'm not sure if our legal system is capable of doing that.

QUOTE (zenryan @ Jul 13, 2013 -> 09:15 AM) He wasnt sparring in these workouts so its not surprising that if he was couldnt get a guy off of him who was dropping punches on him. There have been world class grapplers who couldnt make the transition over to MMA because once they started getting hit repeatedly, there were nowhere near effective. So to say that Zimmerman should be able to get someone off of him just because he went to some classes isnt a strong argument. Remember when you told someone they didn't know what they were talking about and that Zimmerman never took grappling or boxing classes? good times.

QUOTE (zenryan @ Jul 13, 2013 -> 09:02 AM) Funny you call him a liar but the police call it minor inconsistencies that is commom in police reports. Actually said if he was always giving the same exact story then it would be a red flag for lying. Guess its easy to call him a liar when you've had your mind made up from the moment NBC,MSNBC,CNN etc started reporting this story. "You got me!"

QUOTE (Cknolls @ Jul 12, 2013 -> 09:52 PM) I call bulls*** on him reporting him as black. He was asked by 911 what race/color. He did not say I am reporting a black kid....... He was asked for a description. That's standard. He called because he was black. Also, sadly, standard.

QUOTE (zenryan @ Jul 12, 2013 -> 02:47 PM) You obviously have no clue on what youre talking about here. this is pretty ironic!

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 12, 2013 -> 08:53 PM) It also says "a series of acts over a period of time, however short, which evidences a continuity of purpose." I think this could qualify as such. I tend to agree with you, but I think it's close...which, to me, shows that his behavior did rise darn close to a level of unlawfulness. I don't think that's a fair reading of the law, or at least of the intent of the law.

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Jul 12, 2013 -> 08:37 PM) Never spoke to the severity, just that the injuries were consistent with striking concrete. Not 20+ times while also having his mouth and nose held close and also having the same person reaching for his gun. Zimmerman has lied repeatedly.

QUOTE (Cknolls @ Jul 12, 2013 -> 05:05 PM) I am saying Martin could have gone home and nothing happens. But he chose to hide and the rest is history. You guys are saying he is a big man and a puss but yet fast enough to "chase" Martin and catch him. No way. I call bulls***. I am saying that Martin was going home minding his own damn business when Zimmerman reported him to the police for being black, followed him for a period of time and then chased him on foot while armed with a deadly weapon. I call bulls*** that anyone actually thinks this is a 100% legitimate, rational course of action for an adult to take.

QUOTE (Cknolls @ Jul 12, 2013 -> 04:58 PM) And he caught him? in a chase? you guys are really soft in here if you believe this tub of goo caught a 17 yr kid. Please someone answer WHy didn't Martin just go home? He ran after the kid, chasing him down with a deadly weapon. Zimmerman had been exercising heavily and had lost 50-80 pounds. Please someone answer: why didn't Zimmerman just go home instead of chasing this innocent kid on foot while armed with a deadly weapon? Why do so many people think that's an acceptable course of action?

Geraldo Rivera: jesus christ edit: seriously, is there any way to read this besides Rivera advocating for a "shoot unknown black males on sight" policy for white women?

QUOTE (Cknolls @ Jul 12, 2013 -> 01:55 PM) Everyone keeps saying Zimmerman chased after him. Because he did and it's documented in the 911 call.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Jul 12, 2013 -> 12:40 PM) <!--quoteo(post=2835304:date=Jul 12, 2013 -> 12:30 PM:name=iamshack)-->QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 12, 2013 -> 12:30 PM) <!--quotec-->I guess I feel like we have police officers for a reason. When you try to assume the role of the police, and you are not trained to do so, bad things happen. If enough people were to do this, it sort of encourages more people to feel as though they need to be carrying guns because it just isn't safe anymore. Then all the sudden everyone is walking around with guns and these sort of misunderstandings begin occurring exponentially more frequently. Ask the people of Detroit how waiting for the cops works out (an old clip but still good): I get your general sentiment, but police departments and cops aren't good all the time. They're slow. They're ineffective. I have no problem with people taking the initiative to clean up their neighborhood. With limits, obviously. Martin should have been armed to defend himself against this creep who was stalking him through the neighborhood.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Jul 12, 2013 -> 12:37 PM) You were referring to you acting as Martin. My mistake. And stop with your overreacting to everything I say. Jesus f***ing Christ. I'm not saying no one should go to jail. I'm saying if you're wrong in your assessment of the facts, and Zimmerman did what Mr. Genius laid out, then he could potentially be in jail for the rest of his life for not being patient enough to wait for the cops arming himself with a deadly weapon and chasing after an innocent teenager on foot. That too, is sad and shouldn't be forgotten.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Jul 12, 2013 -> 12:24 PM) I don't think that's lost on most people. But why make two tragedies by putting a guy in jail for life (since you would have preferred murder 1 charges) over a dumb decision? It's not a tragedy to put a murdered in jail for committing murder

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Jul 12, 2013 -> 01:09 PM) Well, we'll never know. The chances of seeing a black kid in Woodridge are worse than winning the lottery There's at least two black families and three hispanic families within a 500 feet of my house, but I really don't know why you thought this was some kind of winning point before and think it is now.

QUOTE (Alpha Dog @ Jul 12, 2013 -> 12:16 PM) Being unrecognized, he is suspicious. You are paranoid. Seriously, please seek professional mental help.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 12, 2013 -> 12:08 PM) What it is to stop people from attacking people who are "following" them and then claiming they were stalking you? I dunno, a strong evidential trail that Zimmerman was, in fact, stalking Martin and got out of his car to chase him on foot with a deadly weapon?

QUOTE (Alpha Dog @ Jul 12, 2013 -> 12:07 PM) And do you think that his life will even be the same again? Looking over his shoulder for that one crazy-ass douchbag that thinks he is gonna up his street cred by taking care of this crazy-ass cracker? Yeah, he is still alive, for now, but unless he moves across the country in some sort of witness relocation type of thing he will be punished every remaining day of his life, guilty verdict or no. Sucks that he acted like a complete moron and wound up killing an innocent kid because of it. Poor baby.