beck72

My take on the roster is that Borchard will be the bench guy, making him the 13th position player. And the sox will carry 12 pitchers, with Munoz, Tracey and Baj fighting for the last spot.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Dec 29, 2005 -> 04:14 PM) But in the event that Uribe goes down, im not sure im comfortable with Pablo filling in. SS Robert Valido will be in AA to start this yr. His defense is supposed to be major league ready now, which is what the sox would be looking at from him if Uribe went down. While he probably wouldn't hit [though he can bunt and do the little things], he'd likely be better than Ozuna long term.

For the people who don't like the topic/ poster/ whatever of a thread, here's some advice---don't respond. The unnecessary bashing and piling on makes you look like a bunch of 13 yr olds pushing around a kid in the school yard.

QUOTE(WCSox @ Dec 28, 2005 -> 10:11 PM) Am I the only one who thinks that Kenny should wait until July before considering more trades? Why trade one of your accomplished, seasoned vets and throw the relatively inexperienced McCarthy in the #5 spot? Can't we wait until next winter (or at least July) before dumping Contreras? BMac has much more experience than most rookie SP's. He's proved he can adapt after getting knocked around. And he's proven he can handle disappointments and adversity [not being on the playoff roster though he was one of the top pitchers in Sept] with major league class If the sox had a young SP prospect ready in AAA to come in should someone get hurt, then a trade of Jose or Vazquez would be fine. The sox should be able to get a top SP prospect in a trade of one of these two guys

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Dec 28, 2005 -> 09:47 PM) Vasquez is a stuff type pitcher like Conteras. However Vasquez is under control for a few years. Conteras's value has never been so high. He can be a number 1 type pitcher. The Dodgers would love a guy like this that can immediately go to the front of their rotation. Vazquez also has value, esp. with his being under contract for a few yrs.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Dec 28, 2005 -> 09:54 PM) I didnt say THEY would rather trade Freddy. I said I would. He makes the most sense to me, and frankly I think that down the road he may be the least effective arm we have. Vazquez could be another option. He also seems the biggest project.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Dec 28, 2005 -> 09:47 PM) I think it makes more sense that Conteras will be the one to go. Vasquez is a stuff type pitcher like Conteras. However Vasquez is under control for a few years. Conteras's value has never been so high. It might have come down to who re-signed first. With Jon re-signing first, the sox don't have the money to pay position players and pay a starting rotation $50 mill Someone has to go.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Dec 28, 2005 -> 09:46 PM) I would rather trade Freddy. Unless he's cheating on Ozzie's neice, I don't see it

QUOTE(JUGGERNAUT @ Dec 28, 2005 -> 09:36 PM) If by long term you mean 3 yrs then yes I think Kenny is trying to lock up Contreras for another 3 yrs. The guy is at the top of his game right now & if he continues to pitch the way he did for the 2nd 1/2 of 2005 there are few that can measure up to him. BMac wasn't traded up til now because the rotation was not solidified for 2 yrs like it is now. If Jose signs an extension then applying your logic that both Freddy & Mark are near locks to be re-signed then only Javier drops out of the equation in 2008. By 2008 you don't believe the White Sox will have another young pitcher ready to crack the rotation? BMac won't be traded. The sox can't have a NYY like salary for their starting rotation. With Garland locked up, Jose or Vazquez are likely to be traded

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Dec 28, 2005 -> 06:10 PM) It is, but to play devil's advocate, doesn't this make Garland more attractive to potential trading partners? The sox could turn around and trade Jon. With him signed for 3 yrs at a reasonable amount, he'd bring a boatload in return. One thing is for sure, having both him and Jose are a luxury few teams can afford

QUOTE(JimH @ Dec 28, 2005 -> 03:57 PM) I saw this on an Astros board, I think you authored it in fact. Yes I think this is the type of deal they will try to make. someone from their side started the thread who saw in MLB rumors. I just proposed what it would take from the sox side. If the sox wanted a LH SP Troy Patton has excellent numbers from high A. It would take more than Jon to land him [and Qualls], as he was the #4 rated prospect in the SAL league from BA. But top pitching prospects are at a premium.

QUOTE(JimH @ Dec 28, 2005 -> 03:29 PM) THEY HAVE, by a lot. I wish people on this board would look at reality instead of just one piece of the puzzle. They are several million over budget, by all accounts. Garland is in line for a huge arbitration award, perhaps $8 million. What is it about this situation that people don't, or refuse, to understand? I think payroll has a lot to do with dealing Jon That said, what would /do you think of a deal with the astros centered around Qualls and Garland? The sox can lock up a top quality set up man for a few yrs at a reasonable rate, and probably get a pitching prospect in the deal. Qualls being an extreme GB pitcher who can get K's and give up few walks would fit in very well

QUOTE(JUGGERNAUT @ Dec 27, 2005 -> 03:30 AM) Merry Christmas & Happy Holidays to everyone! Cubs Boston O's White Sox No freaken way! There is no way the RedSox are accepting ONLY Prior in exchange for Manny. Likewise ChiSox accepting ONLY Bedard for Garland. Garland is coming off of his best year including a CG in the ALCS. How many pitchers in the game today can claim a CG in the ALCS? His trade value even as a rent a player is higher than Bedard. The A's have been rumored to be invovled in the 3 way trade as well. They'd get Bedard for Zito. If the A's can only get Bedard for Zito, the sox would be even less likely to get him Though with his injury history, I wouldn't trade Jon for Bedard.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Dec 25, 2005 -> 12:04 PM) Yeah I just had a look at Weaver's stats for last season, I can see now why'd they're probably heading down that path. My reasoning before was that they might as well keep their really good prospects and try to sign a starter on the FA market. If they're going to go after a starter on the FA market, it should be Millwood, not Weaver, and even Kevin isn't the greatest bet to produce long - term under a 4 to 5 year deal. What the dodgers need more than anything is someone to stay healthy who can be a #1-#3 SP. That's why Garland makes sense. Get him in for the yr, for a test run. He does well, they sign him to a long term deal. Esp with the NL West up for grabs, and the Dodgers trying to win in the short term with the "old timers" being signed, trading with the sox for a solid #3 SP for a few extra parts makes sense

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Dec 25, 2005 -> 11:13 AM) But really, why don't they just sign Jeff Weaver and keep their prospects? I'd imagine a team like the Nats are going to get Weaver though. Because it seems like the dodgers have been burned by the long term deals for SP's---Perez and Lowe last yr, Dreifort ]even though Colleti is new]. Plus, from their various message boards, most fans believe Weaver is a very mediocre pitcher who is similar to a guy like Tomko, and not worth a long term deal.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Dec 24, 2005 -> 03:50 AM) I think the Sox can definitely do better then a reliever and a mid - tier prospect. Remember the Mark Mulder deal was Mulder for Kiko Calero (there's your reliver), Danny Haren (now a good young starter) and Daric Barton (definite top 20 prospect in baseball). Now I don't know if the Sox would be able to get something like this because of Garland's contract. But the market for starting pitching hasn't gone done at all, the Paul Byrd's and Scott Elarton's are still getting very nice contract. Of course we had the best team last season. But I'd like to see you show any team at all last season that had better starting pitching then us at all in 2005. That's what won us the World Series. By the same token, the sox are looking for pitching that can help this yr or very soon [esp. a lefty]. With major league salaries for pitching sky high, top minor league pitching talent is also very valuable. Teams may not want to deal their top talent that can help this yr or next as they could provide salary relief for the big legue club. That is something all MLB teams want--good, young, cheap arms.

Bedard has been injured through out his career. While he puts up good numbers when he's been healthy [never throwing more than 150 innings], I'd want someone younger with more upside than him for Jon. unless there are other players we don't know about--which doesn't make sense for the O's.

QUOTE(drowninginflame @ Dec 22, 2005 -> 08:32 PM) you read my mind. Garland is a douche, I've never bought into him for one second. I've never been the biggest Garland backer. But give the guy a break. He's looking to capitalize on his success [whether you think he deserves it or not] like every other person in his situation would.

QUOTE(AddisonStSox @ Dec 22, 2005 -> 08:22 PM) Kenny is playing with house money. He can afford to shake things up and take some risks because this organization has it's rings now. But, if you'll notice, he's doing it the right way. Clearly, he has a plan and can see that players like Garland and Crede are either not in those plans or are huge question marks. Sounds like you're the one giving KW a free pass now doesn't it

QUOTE(AddisonStSox @ Dec 22, 2005 -> 04:04 PM) So now we have built-in acceptance mechanisms regarding Kenny Williams? This is the kind of s*** I'm warning Soxtalk about. Kenny has not yet earned "Can't Do No Wrong" status. He simply hasn't. To accept a lesser package and chalk it up to "Kenny doing his best," puts you in dangerously close to the North side Sheep Phenomenon. I've been one of Kenny's biggest backers on this site. I was down-right confused by the Vazquez deal, but, I have since seen the light. All I'm saying is we can not grant Kenny a hall-pass just yet. He has a HUGE chip here in Garland and he needs to get a fair package in return. Another thing--people are acting like Kw should be publicly flogged if he doesn't get the top prospects of whatever team trades for jon. The trades and personnel moves the sox have made the last few years aren't just KW running wild. It's the entire organization being consulted and scouting other players--the majors and minors. When I say KW should be given the "benefit of the doubt" that he can get a good return on Jon, I'm also talking about the entire organization. The sox organ. has had a very good record in recent yrs of players panning out, whether it's via trade, FA signing, waivers, etc. I hold no "man love" for KW. But I trust the sox organ. to keep building on the sox success for the short and long term.

QUOTE(AddisonStSox @ Dec 22, 2005 -> 04:04 PM) So now we have built-in acceptance mechanisms regarding Kenny Williams? This is the kind of s*** I'm warning Soxtalk about. Kenny has not yet earned "Can't Do No Wrong" status. He simply hasn't. To accept a lesser package and chalk it up to "Kenny doing his best," puts you in dangerously close to the North side Sheep Phenomenon. I've been one of Kenny's biggest backers on this site. I was down-right confused by the Vazquez deal, but, I have since seen the light. All I'm saying is we can not grant Kenny a hall-pass just yet. He has a HUGE chip here in Garland and he needs to get a fair package in return. I'm not talking about 'do no wrong' garbage. I'm talking about KW [and the sox scouting guys] being given the benefit of the doubt that the sox get the best deal possible--that helps the sox short and long term success. Making trades isn't an exact science. Its an entire organization--from the scouts to the GM--that I have confidence in--nott just KW

It is interesting that new Dodger GM Colleti had been with SF since the mid 90's. Seeing how SF has been trading young guys for veterans in order to "win now", either team would make sense

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Dec 22, 2005 -> 12:12 PM) And some news here from the L.A Times; It does leave wriggle room for other pitchers like Broxton, Miller, Jackson, Ebert, etc

Don't know if this has been posted either. What it shows is the Sox are now actively listening for offers. They couldn't do it w/ the Vazquez deal not finalized. And waiting after the arb. deadline to see who else is available for teams. With garland the only real arm out there via trade, at least we can start hearing real names and possible offers http://www.usatoday.com/sports/bbw/columni...21-majors_x.htm

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Dec 22, 2005 -> 11:19 AM) It's a bit different though. Haren and Meyer were both solid spects but obviously Haren has been much, much better as of right now. Charles Thomas and Daric Barton aren't even close, Barton is a top prospect while Thomas never was. Cruz while having a great arm had one good year under Leo so you always have to take that into account while Calero was a damn good reliever for two years in St. Louis. So I see where your coming from but it was still a bit different right when the deal was made but right now obviously the Mulder trade has turned out much better while the Hudson trade has been horrible for the A's. Both deals looked similar when they were made. But trades are judged by how the players perform. And so far the Braves are laughing now. Judging on the players that were traded for Mulder and Hudson, many people are asking for >>> than what the A's got for each. Haren was projected as a #3/ #4 SP, who had some 70 IP's in the bigs; Barton as a low A guy w/o a position, yet a great bat; and 30 yr old reliever in Calero. A similar deal would be Broxton; Brazoban; and a low A position player. I'm not advocating that deal. But it's realistic. I'd rather the sox take a risk on a young guy w/ a lot of upside like Greg Miller than an older reliever like Brazoban, and get a #3/ #4 type SP in Justin Orenduff, along with a lower level prospect.