beck72

As long as something gets done, I like this approach better from KW and the Sox. Kw is the guy who always says what's on his mind, and talks too much, like a guy who's all over the map. Give me a guy who talks less often and speaks only when he has something meaningful to add [like at a press conference announcing a trade or a signing].

Of course. They handed out the huge contracts that are now an albatross. They're looking for any excuse to get rid of these guys. It's up to the players to be careful not to violate those obscure parts of the contract

Another sign the sox would be frontrunners for Renteria if STL can't resign him. Nomar should be off the market. http://www.suntimes.com/output/cubs/cst-spt-cub06.html

I'd love for the Sox to get Luis Castillo [i'm sure Ozzie has tried various scenarios w/ KW to get either him or Pierre]. I just don't see it happening. Not w/o giving up Carlos, who does have a 2006 option yr. IMO, though, I think Ozzie wants a "team leader/ captain type" ballplayer for the SS position [not just at SS ,but for any spot--first, the focus on Vizquel, now talk of Renteria] Uribe is young and talented. But is he a leader? If you look around at the position players on the Sox [or FA's], I don't see many team captain types. PK seems to have some qualities. But w/ all his bat slamming and crap after he pops up, somehow something is missing here. Ozzie loves Buehrle for the pitchers as a captain type. An old school type pro position player, who does the little things well w/o complaining, a "winner" is what Ozzie seems to want. 2B would be set with Uribe and Harris. Few teams can match the production those two can give splitting time there, with Uribe seeing most of it. With a Renteria signing, I could see Harris traded if Uribe has a similar yr like 2004 Crede I agree on. No doubt a few players could come down to earth--Rowand, Uribe, PK, Lee. that's why getting some consistency for the top of the lineup is a key for the sox. Renteria could bring that, even if it means overpaying a bit. Yet it's easier to get a top of the order type guy via Free agency then it is via trade. Most teams need and want to keep their table setters.

The Sox need a guy who can give them 60-70 innings from the pen, who can go 1+ innings at any given time, and pitch a few days in a row. Osuna isn't cut out for that role

We'll see how smart they are. They're raising ticket prices, building a new stadium, but still not raising team payroll? Doesn't sound smart to me. But STL might be afraid to go to arb. with him. He'd likely get close to $9 mill. By all accounts, they don't want him to get that much in 2005. Another big option is signing Polanco for 2B, and getting a cheaper SS, that many fans and people in the org. seem OK with.

What that shows is the sox need to use other means besides the FA market to address the bullpen hole. Osuna prob. won't cut it.

The key is STL doesn't want Renteria to make $9 + mill in 2005, with all the long term big money they are putting out. I read a STL columnist who wrote that the owners want to keep payroll at 2004 levels, while paying out $4 mill to Walker, and still get a top SP [w/ all the RJ talk, and being after Hudson]. That makes Renteria unaffordable. My guess is w/ Renteria it'll come down to what he wants. Can Ozzie and co. talk him into being a key building block for a young team that could and should be near the playoff for his 4 yrs, where he is looked to for leadership and given a prominent role on the club? Or does he want to be a lesser piece to a possible WS club, where he's viewed as a steady contributor, but must take a back seat to the HR power guys? It sounds and looks like the backloaded offer was a slap at Renteria. He would probably have been making less in 2005 than the $7 mill he made in 2004, with more in later yrs. Money isn't everything, and a few million here or there may seem like nothing to us. But getting a respectable offer, that would put him among the elite SS's in baseball [which Renteria is, prob. in the top 5], does go a long way for anybody.

I was just thinking if STL didn't offer arb. to Renteria [which is the biggest suitor out there for him] then it would set things in motion for the Sox to be in the best position to sign him.

It would be a decent offseason if they were the 2 biggest moves. But other moves would still have to happen, like adding another solid bullpen arm, and another leadoff type/ contact hitter.

If STL fails to offer Renteria arbitration by this Tues the sox have to be considered the favorites to land him. [They probably won't, as a STL paper recently wrote that STL's payroll will hold steady at 2004 level, and they need a stud SP, and pay Walker some cash--Renteria would see an increase over his $7 + mill salary; STL's offer of $32 mill over 4 yrs was supposedly backloaded, meaning STL wants to get a low salary for 2005 and pay more in later yrs]. Also, Renteria hasn't responded to the Cards offer. If Renteria lets the offer sit, and STL doesn't offer Arb., STL can't sign him until May 1st. Bos. wants a SS for 1 yr, when top prospect Hanley Ramirez should be ready. Ana. is going after Beltran, and also need some SP. The Cubs might. But if the sox and Cubs offer similar cash, Renteria doesn't seem the type to rub salt in the Cards eyes by jumping ship to an arch rival. I know people have talked about his price tag, maybe being $10 mill a yr for 4 yrs. Yet regardless of his price, what do people think about the possibity of Edgar at SS for the Sox for 4 yrs? [it's not Beltran, who would keep the sox from getting other players--basically it'd be PK off the roster] I know people will say its a long shot. Yet the Sox have few position players locked up for a few years, like they do w/ pitching. Besides Rowand and Uribe, and Lee, the sox could use a guy to build around. With OFers like Sweeney and Anderson being talked up as potential building blocks, locking in a top SS makes sense [and we know how Ozzie love the SS position] [And before people post the "Sox are cheap", "it won't happen" blah blah, try posting about the direction the Sox would take if it pans out]

The 3 yr $9 mill offer is a joke, seeing how a guy like Paul Wilson got over $4 mill a yr for 2 yrs. Wright is a no-brainer for ATL to go to arb. with, so any team will lose a draft pick. The only thing that could be holding up a potential signing is Wright and his agent waiting on other teams to submit offers. If teams haven't by now, I don't see many suddenly going after him unless bigger names start dropping off the board. [which should take more time]. Lesser guys like Ortiz seem closer to signing than big names like Pavano, Radke, Pedro.

Well said. I too believe the sox have some winners on the team. Buerhle comes to mind. Rowand. Frank. I just don't believe the sox have enough of them [esp. the core guys making the most money] or else they'd have won since 2000.

One thing to consider about the sox getting both Wright and Nomar--the injury risks. While Nomar for 1 yr has every incentive in the world to do well for being a FA in 2006, his injuries are the reason he'd be affordable. The same goes with Wright.

that's why I put "winners" in quotes. Because it probably can't even be measured. I'll take a stab at it and say a player who always seems to come up with a way to help the team when it needs it, whether its a SB, a bunt, a SF, a nice play in the field, etc. Some people call it "heart", "desire", being "clutch", whatever. But one thing is for sure, the Sox have had arguably the best talent in the division for the last four years, and still haven't won the division. I'd say the Sox are short on "winners". KW may call them grinders, whatever. The sox [with the same core of players] haven't gotten the job done. Something is wrong with the makeup of the Sox. And it will take more than just the departures of Maggs and Jose V. to change it.

The market for Renteria is pretty small. No Red sox, cubs sound like they're going fater Nomar, the Angels will prob stick with Eckstein and go after either Beltran or RJ. If the sox only have to beat STL's 4 yrs, $32 mill with most of the money backloaded, it's very doable. Esp. if Ozzie wants a proven winner for SS IMO, Harris would have more value to the sox with what he bring back in a trade. He could very well stick around. Yet it would also depress his value being a bench player/ pinch runner. I think the sox would be better with Valdez able to play SS and 2b, with Uribe giving Crede a rest at 3b. With Frank's health a question mark, Pk could stick around. But it might mean Lee being the trade bait / salary dump instead.

Because there are many intangibles/ qualities that a person can use to describe a "winner", and don't think it's easily defined. I think the sox have a lot of decent, talented players. But do they have enough winners? I don't think so.

Are you kidding? KW doesn't have to produce a winner and he'll still have a job? Everyone has to produce some time. And there comes a time when people run out of excuses why they haven't won. KW's time is running out, IMO

Beltran will go to the Angels

The Sox should get a position player who is a "winner", who can provide solid leadership and very good baseball skills. Whether it means signing a guy like Renteria or trading a guy like Carlos Lee to do it, I think the Sox will this offseason. Why? Because Ozzie and KW both need to have success with the 2005 Sox. Ozzie wasn't happy being sold a bill of goods from KW that the players he had in 2004 were the ones he could win with. If they were, the sox could have won even w/o Maggs and Frank. I kind of liken it to Scott Skiles and Paxson working together to bring in their type of players to the bulls. If they are going down, go down with the right type of players who will battle every night, and do the little things necessary to win. I think some of the Sox players battled when Frank and Maggs went down, but they didn't do the little things.

If the sox signed Renteria to a long term deal [4 yrs], who should see the bulk of playing time at 2B? [it's not Willie Harris]. Uribe should play everyday. Willie Harris could stay, very likely. But he's a #9 hitter anyway. I just think Harris could bring in talent to fill other holes, such as a bullpen arm. Renteria is a #2 hitter. the sox would still need to bring in someone else [at least to leadoff vs RHP, Rowand could hit vs LHP in a pinch, though my preference would be to bring in someone for CF who can leadoff and move Rowand to RF] The Crede project will continue on in 2005. Did you read the Southtown article? The sox think he's fixable, which he prob. is and shouldn't be moved. Plus Uribe is far better at 2B then 3b.

Yeah, I've tried to steer clear of 2005 lineups myself. It's hard to say who the sox will get/ trade/ steal until it all plays out. It just seems like the sox want to get a position player for the top of the order who also has some leadership qualities [1st vizquel, possibly Renteria, Nomar]. If they get a SS like Renteria for a few years, then it makes Harris expendable, as Uribe has earned the job at 2B. If a short term guy is acquired [1-2 yrs], then keeping Harris makes sense. But I agree, a key position player and a SP like Wright would fill 2 big holes. Though other holes need to be filled. The sox could trade a guy like PK for a bullpen arm, prospects close to the bigs, or a few lesser players to provide some depth. I've just tried to see who the sox are targetting and why. And jump to conclusions from there.

You putting Renteria in the roid category?! Please, the guy is about defense and contact, not power. And his numbers didn't dip that much

Robbie would bat vs. RHP, him batting LH. With Renteria and Uribe RH hitters, a LH batter for UTL would be nice.

Seeing from the hot stove thread, Ozzie mentioned the Sox going after Renteria. With a supposed 4 yr, $32 mill backloaded deal offered by STL, and few teams w/ that big of interest left, the Sox could be one of the top teams left to land him for prob. under $40 mill, 4yrs. If Edgar came on board [i know it's a big if, but Ozzie seems to definitely want a veteran leader at SS], a trade would have to happen. First, Harris would probably be traded. Uribe would be the starting 2B. Harris has value now, and would have none being on the bench, pinch running, etc. Wilson Valdez wouldn't be bad for a UTL role. Or, signing Robbie Alomar to the league minimum might not be too crazy. His ability to hit LH would fit in. A team like TB needs a 2b, and a package starting w/ Willie, Borchard and an arm [or Willie and Gload] could probably get Danys Baez for the bullpen. Baez will make $3.5 mill in 2005. TB could use salary relief, and if they could get 2, 3 guys for their 25 man roster for 1 arm [they have a possible closer in Jesus Colome], they might do it. another option is a Harris + deal for Jose Cruz. Jr. , though I'm not that impressed by Cruz. Baez is the RH setup guy that would do well for the sox. He could close games if Shingo gets hurt, or fails. He can go more than 1 inning, and pitch a few days in a row, as he was a SP, and has done it in the past] And he's only 27, and the sox would have an option yr in 2006 for $4mill. While TB is one team that could use a 2B, I haven't thought of other teams that could want Willie. Thoughts? I