[FireKennyWilliams.com]

Agree 110% Red Sox fans are terrible now...rank as most annoying fans in the country.

They are also Patriots fans, and the same rule applies.

[Steroids, HGH, and the HOF]

Meh there's really nothing you can do. Hell, you just named a pitcher and a hitter, if both of them have the same advantage, does it matter anymore? You can't really delete records or anything, there's so many. You just have to be aware of the caveat that there was a decade-plus period (at least) where everyone was juicing and consider that for all the stats coming from that era.

 

BTW Bonds was already easily a legit first-ballot HOFer before he became the incredible hulk.

[FireKennyWilliams.com]

I think the cubs fans are known for complaining a lot, including booing their own team but still showing up. Not never complaining. All the ones I know complain a lot.

Yeah I think the stereotype of them being content to lose and never complaining is obsolete now. They won't admit it, but since '05 that hasn't been the same. They want a WS too and they're getting impatient. They were being really harsh when they realized their overrated team was choking away the first round, the booing was pretty loud. Well, that goes for the "real" Cub fans, anyway. The drunken frat boys are still what they are.

[Which AL Central lineup to you fear more?]

Indians dont even come near the Tigers on paper. Theyve got the whole package. Defense, speed to an extent, veterans, veteran pitching, power, a bullpen, and a great backstop in Pudge.

Outside of Verlander, the rest of their rotation has a lot of question marks. I am not at all sold on Bonderman, who you don't know from day to day whether he is a #1 or a #5. And Todd Jones is still their closer. I'd be surprised if they didn't develop some holes on that staff.

[Fukudome to the Cubs]

People conviently forget their White Sox history when they talk about melting things down. People STILL talk about the strike year and the White Flag trade. There were people who literally didn't go to games for 10+ years because of those incidents.

Yeah I was one of those people, actually it was the strike, I only have blurry memories of the White Flag trade. I didn't start watching baseball again until like 1999, I finally caved in because I was tired of watching the Bears lose

[Fukudome to the Cubs]

As would most people on this board. But, the game isn't played on paper. And this team hasn't played one game in 2008. Shoot, we're not even IN 2008.

I know, and I didn't expect the disaster that was 2007 to be rectified in one year. And Crede and Uribe still have to be traded. But there's just still so much to be done to make this team a legit WS contender and it doesn't seem like it's happening fast enough... juggernaut Tigers in the division and Liriano's return notwithstanding.

 

I'm really keeping my fingers crossed on all of the young players playing to their full potential at once because that's probably the best shot this team has right now.

[NOOOOOOOOOOO!!]

So that's my bad, guys, and I got Halle Berry pregnant too... I'm on a roll this year but I'll be more careful next time

[Fukudome to the Cubs]

The end result was a 2005 World Series championship.

Yeah, and that was absolutely great. Unfortunately I just looked at my calendar and it's 2007, and I'm thinking we have a .500 team right now. I don't know about you but I'd kind of like to experience 2005 again someday.

[Fukudome to the Cubs]

Its insane to hold someone's work ethic against them.

I'm not holding anybody's work ethic against anybody. In fact TBH I could care less about the work ethic of Kenny Williams, Jerry Angelo, or John Paxson. I only care about the end result and right now, I can't be too optimistic, because I (and many others) haven't seen too much of anything. I used to think KW was a genius, now, not so much.

 

There is a pretty lengthy thread about that so I'm not going to comment too much further.

[Tejada dealt to the Astros]

I'd much prefer him in the 9 hole, but he's pretty underrated. He's also a Boras client though.

He sucks bad in the leadoff spot, but he's all right when he bats 9th. Plus he is a Sox killer.

[Fukudome to the Cubs]

But I am sure the Sox lineup would score more runs with a .790 OPS player in it than a .640ish OPS player in it.

I didn't say anything to imply it wouldn't. But you're not going to put said .790 OPS player at the top of the lineup if he's not that fast and if his OPS is high because he hits home runs... no, you're going to bat him like 6th. If it was .790 because he hits a lot of doubles/triples and draws a ton of walks, then by all means, but I don't see anybody like that. You need a reliable presence at the top to fill that role or you're gonna fall flat when the bats cool off.

[Which AL Central lineup to you fear more?]

Granderson was 6th in the AL in strikeouts last year....Not that they mean anything but he hardly cut down on them

I think I said that wrong... he went down from 174(!) to 141 which is still a lot, but what I was getting at was the fact that he needed to start making better contact, which he did.

[Fukudome to the Cubs]

That's right -- I don't see how CF could be anyone but Owens/Crisp/Pierre. Otherwise the Sox would have no leadoff hitter! That's why the Sox need to put a .650 OPS player into CF rather than a .790 OPS player

I think OPS (and SLG% by extension) is an overrated stat for leadoff hitters especially if you have enough power elsewhere. It's not completely unimportant because doubles really matter, and because obviously batting yourself in is a lot more reliable than relying on the heart of the order to do it, but not everybody can have a Granderson or Soriano there. OBP and speed is what matters most. Owens def. has speed but not so much OBP, at least he has yet to show it.

 

My main beef with having Owens in CF is his arm, he throws like a girl. And his defense is about average, he has great range that is negated by his bad reads. So, as an overall player, Rowand is an upgrade... but unless Fields is in the everyday lineup, Cabrera is the leadoff hitter, and I'm not sure I like that. I agree with the poster above that said a Rowand signing would have to have an accompanying trade.

[Pablo]

I notice there's a lot of people down on Richar, with the Sox' recent track record developing young talent that doesn't surprise me. I saw quite a bit of potential in Richar's bat and after a shaky start, he was playing excellent defense. He's gonna be really good with patience... and if he loses playing time to Uribe I'm gonna be pissed. Actually I'll be kind of worried if Uribe doesn't get dealt before the season starts, because I just can't shake the feeling that Ozzie will be tempted to play Uribe if he's there.

[Which AL Central lineup to you fear more?]

Granderson hit a silly # of triples- I just don't see that again. If Granderson = Sizemore, a 50 point drop in OPS is not surprising. Players have good years and great years. Beltran's .878 OPS last year is quite good, but it was a 100 point drop from the year before.

Ok, I'll buy that. In A-Rod's "bad" 2004, he had a .887 OPS, so many players wish they could sniff a OPS that high in their best years.

 

But, while Granderson's numbers may or may not go down, I don't think his impact/contribution to the Tigers lineup is going to necessarily be weaker.

[Fukudome to the Cubs]

Rowand is next. And he'll probably make contact.

 

And if Owens did start, one thing you could rely on is he probably would steal 50 bases.

Actually I'm a big Jerry Owens fan and I like what he brings to the lineup, I (like most) just don't feel like he's a reliable everyday MLB leadoff hitter, at least yet. And I don't want to pin all my hopes on him hitting his ceiling as a player. But you're probably right, at the pace he was going last year, he could EASILY have stolen 50 bases with a full season's ABs. If he was a better hitter and got on base at around a .370 clip, he could probably steal 70.

 

But if this team did sign Rowand, who would lead off? Owens is really the only one... Cabrera is the next best thing but he really isn't a leadoff guy. We'd still be in bad shape.

[What's wrong with Kenny Williams?]

I don't think anything is "wrong" with Kenny Williams per se. I think he's just an average GM who caught lightning in a bottle in 2005 when the entire pitching staff pitched out of their minds, and it took a while for it to catch up with him. And also just plain bad luck plays a role.

[Fukudome to the Cubs]

So... what FA is KW going to whiff on next?

 

I hate to sound like a doom-and-gloom naysayer but unless Jerry Owens all of a sudden turns into a .320 hitter with 50 stolen bases... we're a mess.

[Which AL Central lineup to you fear more?]

He's good. But I don't think he's as good as 2007. We'll see.

I just think he is. He showed flashes of what he could be his rookie year if he cut down on his strikeout numbers, and he did. He has power and crazy speed, he hits a ridiculous number of triples. Plus he's a highlight reel on defense. I'd be surprised if his numbers declined, or weren't something close to 2007.

 

I think Sizemore = Granderson btw

[Kenny not worried about Danks & Floyd as #4 & 5]

I kind of like Danks, his stuff, the way he goes after hitters and stays composed... I dunno, maybe I'm the only one left. His pitching style was influenced by Buehrle, although obviously he doesn't have the stuff of a Buehrle. And for the first half of the year his numbers were affected by the bizarrely pathetic defense he was getting. But... yeah too many homers. And that's why he's still a back-of-the-rotation pitcher. If he can work that out he'll be really good... but that's not something you can just fix overnight.

[Which AL Central lineup to you fear more?]

Tigers with Cabrera now. But declines from last year expected from Maggs, Polanco, Renteria, and Granderson.

The old guys maybe, but I don't expect Granderson to go anywhere anytime soon. He is beastly.

[Which AL Central lineup to you fear more?]

Yeah, once you see the players actually in the lineup, it really becomes obvious.

The only thing we can hope for is the same thing that happened to us last year happens to them, but I highly doubt it will. If it does, they have a lot of question marks on that pitching staff that won't be able to hold them over. But right now yeah I really am kind of scared to play them. I don't even think the Yankees have been this strong.

[Which AL Central lineup to you fear more?]

Tigers, and I don't really think it's close. That lineup is just disgusting.