gbuk

QUOTE(Felix @ Dec 15, 2007 -> 03:34 PM) pfft, it's Tubby's fault that they lost. Injuries and Tubby leaving them with the players they have, and Vaden scoring 28 in the second half. So yes, partially.

QUOTE(danman31 @ Dec 15, 2007 -> 02:47 PM) But he's playing Kentucky It didn't matter who he was playing in this game. When you're that on fire, it doesn't matter who's guarding you, who the team is, or what.

QUOTE(thedoctor @ Dec 15, 2007 -> 07:29 AM) i wasn't speaking specifically of legion's skills, since i'm not that familiar with him. i'm more making a general reference to things illinois's current guards can't do. it appears legion would mostly help in terms of scoring, which is their biggest need. he'd also immediately become their most talented offensive player. Ah, I understand...makes sense. Legion would pretty much be the perfect fit for Illinois...hope he lands there.

QUOTE(thedoctor @ Dec 14, 2007 -> 07:59 AM) i have mixed feelings on legion. on one hand, his mom is a legitimate kook. straight-up crazy. who knows what happens when she is introduced into the program. on the other, most reports i've read say legion himself is a good kid. again, this is stuff i've read. all that said, this is something the illini clearly have to pursue. their guard play is wretched and i'm not really enthusiastic about waiting until 2009 to see someone who can dribble penetrate, distribute, and hit a shot from time-to-time. legion fills a gaping need, no doubt. His mom is nuts, that's not going to change...Legion is a good kid, always smiling and seemingly always in good spirits, but as a lot of people around the program said about him, he's just a "very spoiled kid", and doesn't understand working in order to get something. However, Illinois needs Alex Legion the player, for what he brings. If you expect him to dribble penetrate and distribute, you're looking at the wrong guy...he can finish in transition with his smooth body control, but he's yet to develop reliable ball handling skills. Decent distributer, but since he's not looking to penetrate very often he doesn't get the chance to showcase those skills.

QUOTE(hitlesswonder @ Dec 14, 2007 -> 01:02 AM) I'm no expert, but I wouldn't describe Weber as laid back. I get the impression he works his team pretty hard -- in fact, he seems to reward hard work with playing time almost to a fault. In any case UI usually seem to be very well-conditioned which, so I'm doubtful he's running a country club. Weber is clearly very forgiving of criminal actions off the court, but if Legion is choosing IL because he thinks it won't be as much work as UK I think he may be making a mistake. He's not as "in your face" as Gillispie is. Obviously Weber works his players hard, but he's not as confrontational as Gillispie...just a different style. And it wasn't a knock on Weber, it's more commenting on how almost over-the-top Gillispie works his players.

QUOTE(hitlesswonder @ Dec 14, 2007 -> 01:34 AM) Smith would be playing now if the coaching staff had their way. It's funny that Kelvin Samson is Satan for making phone calls, but keeping a convicted felon on the team to recruit Richardson is just fine. Also, Weber's mock funeral for Self was just totally classless, but obviously pales in comparison. As for refusing to accept responsibility -- his quote after the AZ game that the way for UI to improve is to get better players was pretty classless as well. In my opinion, the way the UI basketball program has and is being run is indefensible. I don't know anything about that, but reading quotes on this board from people closer to the program than me, I certainly get the impression there's a lot going on that we don't know about. I'm sure that's true of almost all major college athletic programs to some extent. As for Weber's coaching ability, I'm not qualified to assess it. He sure should have zoned up Maryland though. You really think he kept Jamar on the team just to recruit Richardson? That's pointless. Webster was the one who did all of the recruiting, and if he was ever going to waver it was going to be when Webster left. I understand saying they need to get better players is somewhat classless, however don't you think that's also an indictment on himself too? That's the truth. There's a lot going on in every athletic department, especially in the major sports. I just don't buy the fact that s*** is hitting the fan over there. Weber is a good coach. Not great, but when he has talented players he knows how to use them. He knows how to adjust.

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Dec 14, 2007 -> 12:14 AM) If you aren't aware of the entire Jamar Smith/Brian Carlwell saga, the myth that Weber is a great in game coach, the bizarre showing up of World Wide Wes at the UC recently on the coaching staff's tab, the general ignorance he showed toward the incredible amount of problems off the court within the program the last few years, and his seeming inability to blame anybody but his young players.........that's your problem. Of course I was aware of that. Smith didn't get what he probably should have gotten, but he wasn't exactly easy on him. You act like Jamar just came back on the team, played the next game and everything was normal. Jerrance Howard is good friends with World Wide Wes, and quite honestly I don't have a problem with the guy. You need people like him, shady or not, to land good players. Incredible amount of problems is a huge overstatement. Either that, or I'm missing A LOT. I think he's a good in game coach, but that's a matter of opinion...and I haven't really seen that many of his quotes, but I don't really care who he blames. A lot of coaches do that. Like the whole Izzo and Floyd thing taking away the kids locker rooms after a bad loss but not blaming themselves. I mean come on. That's how all coaches are.

Coming from a Kentucky fan, I'm disappointed that Legion left, but dealing with his mother wasn't worth it...to give you perspective read this: http://www.kentucky.com/158/story/189453.html Gillispie would not put up with his mother's s***, as she's clearly more concerned about making money off him than anything...yelling at Gillispie during games to put Alex in and etc. like this is high school. It's quite obvious she runs his life and controls what he does...and mainly for Alex this transfer was about not wanting to work the way Gillispie asks him too. Gillispie works players until they want to quit (just ask Acie Law) and clearly Alex couldn't handle it. However, Weber is not Gillispie. He has a more laid back approach to the game, and with a player the caliber of Legion he will make it work...players like Legion don't fall into his lap, as his recruiting has been his ultimate weakness (except recently). Legion is a smooth wing player who can shoot the three and has a mid-range jumper every player should have. He needs badly to work on his defense, something he just doesn't quite understand yet and he has questionable ball handling skills. Right now he's more a shooter than anything, but if he's willing to work hard, which he hasn't proven, he'll develop those things. He's exactly what Weber is looking for, and once Jamar is back next year these guys could fit the bill for Weber perfectly. I would be very excited if I was an Illinois fan, as long as Legion and his mother decide they want to be there. Be cautious of this guy, but if it works out this is a huge get for you guys.

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Dec 13, 2007 -> 11:04 PM) Of course it was lame. But the fact I had to defend Bill Self tells you all you need to know about Bruce Weber. He's a fraud at levels I can't begin to explain. At least Self doesn't stand on a false premise of personal morality like Bruce tries to. Please tell us what kind of "fraud" Weber is then. Go on.

QUOTE(Sonik22 @ Dec 11, 2007 -> 09:42 PM) Thank God for that win! How ironic! Big win for SIU. Later in the year it might not look as good, but that's a good way to get back on track.

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Dec 10, 2007 -> 12:02 AM) If you want to know the difference between Ron Zook and Bruce Weber, and more noteably the direction of their programs, look at tonight's showdown between #1 Whitney Young and #5 Homewood-Floosmoor in hoops (and SIU fans, Kevin Dilliard is the truth, but back on target). The best player on the floor tonight, for either team, was none other than Illinois FOOTBALL recruit Supo Sanni (despite the fact Illinois is recruiting 3 different players on Whitney Young), who had 25 points and 15 rebounds as H-F pulled the 66-55 upset. This is a pretty bad example...I know what you're trying to say, but there are many better ways at illustrating the difference between Zook and Weber.

QUOTE(Rex Hudler @ Dec 9, 2007 -> 12:58 PM) Not exactly sure why you are wanting to argue here, but look at it however you want. DJ has been playing very differently of late, rebounding more aggressively and shooting with confidence. Regardless of competition, DJ is getting better and more confident with every game. His success was not directly related to Kentucky's talent, but more about how he is approaching the game. You can act as if it were no surprise that Jordan outplayed his brother, but I think you are alone in that regard. Jordan was asked to do things yesterday that he has not yet had to as a collegian. He has never played that amount of minutes. There was no fall back. To act as if one knows how a player will react in that situation playing against his older brother is ridiculous. Anyone can act smart after the fact. The 3-game suspension only made the possibilities more cloudy. I know very well what Ellis can do. However, he is not a #2 guard. He is a vintage wing player that is much more a slasher than a shooter. He filled in quite well yesterday and he has skills that can translate to the guard position, but I was really making a point. Their guard depth has been shallow and to lose two more makes yesterday's performance even more unlikely. I along with most IU fans will take yesterday's performance in a heartbeat and smile all day long with it. If you feel better calling is just okay, then go right ahead. I'm not arguing, more just giving my opinion on IU. I'll wait to fully judge them until they have their full team, but I don't see a Final Four in their future, but I could be wrong. We just have differing opinions and that's completely understandable. White is a good player, a good college big man, no doubt, I just don't think he's great, that's all. He's obviously in much better shape now than he has been in the past and he's going to have his career year easily as long as he stays out of foul trouble. He's got a solid post game but from what I've seen, he needs to post up more rather than settling for mid-range jumpers, which he's decent at but certainly not something you always want from him. I do like the fact that he's a lot more mobile this year, something that will definitely help him defensively rather than in the past when he was sluggish and had to keep up with quicker forwards. An easy mismatch. I know what you're saying about Jordan, but I'm not sure you understand the type of talent that Joe Crawford possesses. He's been a huge disappoint in every aspect of his career, and has never showed up in a game that truly counts. He can't take over when he wants to, he can't penetrate at will, his shot is about as inconsistent (shooting motion) as I've ever seen, and he cannot finish in the slightest. And this game coming against a team known for its defensive prowess and in a hostile environment there was no way he was going to step up big. It was clear from the beginning of this year that Jordan was already a better version of Joe. Maybe not at this moment, but he's so much smoother, longer, better ball-handler and etc. He's better in almost every aspect of the game than Joe. I understand facing his brother would have been very strange and scary, but it was the same for Joe, considering the pressure on him to maybe live up to some of his potential against his own brother. It was obvious to Kentucky fans that Joe was going to be outdone by his brother, maybe not to you guys, but I'm very impressed by Jordan...he's going to be very good. I understand what you were saying about Ellis, I think I was just comparing Ellis filling in at the 2 to Kentucky's terrible guards. Of course you guys should take that performance. It was a very well played game, but it was nothing special...Kentucky turns the ball over like they're afraid of it. But again, this is just matter of opinion, excuse the long post.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Dec 9, 2007 -> 01:24 AM) Good stuff, man. You hit a lot of things right on the nose. I'm sure people are tired of seeing me vent my frustrations here so this will be the last post on the matter tonight. I still believe this team has a lot of talent and can make a run some time along the way but right now it's ugly and it might not get better for a while. Ha, believe me man, I know what it's like to vent frustrations on message boards, I can understand it. I wouldn't be too worried just yet, considering this was on the road against a relatively decent A-10 team and your other 2 losses came against one vastly underrated team IMO (USC) and Indiana...so who knows what this team will look like, but as long as they're prepared for conference season that's all that matters.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Dec 9, 2007 -> 01:00 AM) Bone has a crap load of talent, that's why people expected him to be the scorer. I shouldn't have said that I expected Bone to take over the Tatum role but I expected him to be the scoring guard on this team and right now absolutely nothing is falling for him. He took it to the basket more today than he has been so that's a plus but he still can't get anything to go. And yes, I've been worried about the defense since the first exhibition game, it's not the same and it's not going to be as good as last year. Tatum and Young were just insanely good defensively and they were both in the system for a long time(Tatum for 4 and Young for 5 years). The defense is so freaking far off from last season. Oddly enough, the offense isn't too far off from last season at this point and I actually believe it's running smoother, nobody is making shots at the moment though, NOBODY. And the best catch and shoot shooter that we have imo can't find minutes right now. I know Lowery wants to ease the freshman in but they need to be thrown into the fire right now cause they're two of our better shooters. Thing with mid-majors is that their recruiting is so much different than high majors I never have any clue what's going on unless one of them lands a big time recruit (hello Anthony Booker!) it's more of a diamond in the rough type thing, and I legitimately don't know about these guys unless I hear it straight from a hardcore mid-major fan (which I don't know many of, and I enjoy hearing about). It's tough for guys like Bone when expecting so much so quickly...they're thrown right in because they have to be, there's no one else. I didn't take what you said about Bone taking over Tatum's role completely as meaning that because that's a whole different thing. Tatum was one of those special guards who did EVERYTHING...a guy anyone on any team needs. Although it's never necessarily entertaining to watch SIU play, watching Tatum was a pleasure, a nice change of pace. But I digress. I totally forgot about Young...him, Tatum, and Mullins made the sickest backcourt defense, oh man. Losing 2 of those 3 and replacing them with guys who don't necessarily understand the system or have to be made into good defenders is very hard to do, and that's certainly what it feels like with you guys. I agree with throwing the freshmen out into the fire, because the problem is, if they want to be a good team right now, you have to find a remedy for your problem, and if those freshmen bring that, there's no reason to ease them in...let them get experience. It might be tough at first, but it's better than leaving a less talented, more experienced player out there.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Dec 9, 2007 -> 12:41 AM) People expected Mullins to pick up some of the slack but a lot of people were expecting Bone to kind of take over the Tatum role(I certainly did) and at the moment he can't hit a shot. The scoring role was supposed to be picked up by a bunch of people and nobody has settled into anything yet. You're right about Mullins, he's a true point guard, he's not a scorer. And for some reason Brandon Wood still can't find the court, I just don't get it. Well if a guy like Bone, (who I know nothing about and won't pretend to) who played sparingly last year is supposed to take over a lot of Tatum's role, it's going to be tough...I don't know what kind of talent this guy possesses, but putting a guy in a spot to take over for one of the best (the best maybe?) point guards in school history is rough. Transitions like this are never smooth, but I expect Lowery to figure it out, he's proven he knows what he's doing and he'll figure out a way to adjust to it. I've only seen this game play almost 2 games (MSU, USC), and the main thing that stuck out to me was their defensive breakdowns against USC, which aren't like them. And for a team who makes their living off of grinding it out and uglying their way to victory, it's clear they can't afford that to happen. They need more offensive weapons obviously, but that's seemingly always been a need. Falker can't do it all.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Dec 8, 2007 -> 11:19 PM) I'm at a loss for words right now. This team f***in sucks at the moment. Saint Mary's might beat us by 30 at home on Tuesday. I can't even have a positive thought about this team anymore until I see something to be excited about. Someone on this team better pay for the huge f***in hole I punched in my wall. People figured Mullins could step in for Tatum and it would be a seamless transition...clearly not though as Mullins was always known more for his defensive presence than his ball handling ability or his ability to lead a team...worst part about this team is that they're getting beat at their own game this year - slowing it down and a rough grind-it-out defensive style (ie USC game).

QUOTE(Rex Hudler @ Dec 8, 2007 -> 07:27 PM) IU played very well today. DJ was a man amongst boys inside. DeAndre Thomas was as good as he has been at IU. Mike White was solid. Jordan Crawford played very well especially since he was directly facing off against his older brother most of the game. Jamarcus was his normal self and did a nice job handling the ball. UK is bad, very bad. But IU pounded them with a roster that included only one guard. No backups. Just one and small forward Ellis. I'm not sure how AJ Ratliff will fit into the lineup when he returns, but he should provide depth that will give us flexibility should an injury or foul trouble occur. Still a long way to go, but this team has a chance to be really special. It wasn't surprising that Jordan owned his brother. Joe has been one of the bigger busts in Kentucky history, coming off his 5 star, top 10 hype out of high school (along with his bust teammate Malik Hairston). Jordan is quicker, stronger, a better shooter, and better ball handler than Joe has ever been. Jordan defeating his brother that badly was the epitomy of Joe's career. DJ was a man amongst boys only because Kentucky legitimately does have boys down there. Stevenson, Coury, Carter, Stewart, and Harris had no chance defending big men with the power that White and Thomas have. Patterson was not going to guard either to avoid foul trouble, and since Gillispie is set in man-to-man (making sure his style is instilled in these players for the long run) there weren't many adjustments they could make. I like White and think he's a pretty solid player, but for the most part he's not the game changer/dominant big man some make him out to be. Just my opinion, but with Thomas and Mike White helping him out and with a loaded backcourt he doesn't need to be. I know you mention that they only had one guard, but Ellis can absolutely play the two also with his ball handling skills...he's going to be a very good player...and besides, one guard against a team who lacks any competence with the ball, it's not too hard to win that battle.

QUOTE(whitesoxfan99 @ Dec 8, 2007 -> 04:31 PM) IU looks very good without some key players today. But my god is Kentucky awful. IU didn't look good, Kentucky was just that bad. This is the worst Kentucky team since 1989. By far.

Is there any doubt that Illinois will be a perennial power for years to come with Zook? I mean the jury is still out on just how good of a coach he is, but if you have enough talent, it can more than make up for it. (sup John Brady) No matter how great of a coach one is, you can't win titles with mediocre talent, it's pretty obvious Zook realizes this.

QUOTE(whitesoxin' @ Dec 7, 2007 -> 01:04 PM) Fans can't guarantee anything, I never made a "guarantee". I made a prediction. There is a massive discrepancy between the two. When an ESPN analysis says who he thinks will win, he is making a prediction. That is what I did. Anthony Smith mad a guarantee, that is by no means what I did. Only players can make guarantees. Everyone needs to lay the f*** off of me. The only time I even said the word guarantee was when I was referring to my opinion that no matter how the Hoosiers season ends up, it will be better than Illini's season. Really going out on a limb there with the "better than Illinois' season" prediction. Good work.

QUOTE(whitesoxin' @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 03:17 PM) I changed my mind on choosing what college to go to many times. First it was DePaul, then Butler, and finally I chose Indiana. (Just like EJ) I would imagine the choice would be much much harder if I was the best basketball player in the country. Lay off him and stop being jealous because we're going to win it all this year. QUOTE(whitesoxin' @ Dec 6, 2007 -> 10:00 PM) And I'd expect nothing less than criticism from a U of I homer whose username on a White Sox message board is related to Illinois basketball. If you had our team you would be saying the same thing. Really?