[The AJP- Class act...]

It's one of them. Nobody is bashing AJ. I liked him on the White Sox. He was one of my favorite players on the team. He's not a class act though. And pretending like he is some great person doesn't do anything for me.

OK, thanks for filling me in. I never heard of the plane incident. I agree that AJ knows the game very well and probably is a bit of a prick but I like that and would have him back any time. That said, I don't see honoring a homer like hawk as anything special.

[Your Realistic 2014 Lineup]

Trading any of our limited assets for a player that fills a position where we actually have organizational depth would be a huge mistake IMO.

Not if Semien ends up at 3rd. We can't count on Sanchez til he proves he can hit at AAA and the rest of the depth is at AA, with talk of Micah Johnson going to CF due to his lack of defense at 2b.

 

 

[$20 million max posting fee looks to be coming for Japanese posti]

It looks like the draft order applies to the post bidding only and a free for after that in the event of teams matching one another's posting bids. If multiple teams post they same bid then the player can choose the team and offered contract of his choice.

[The AJP- Class act...]

Just to try and understand, is the g/f of Beckham situation on the plane the reason for the AJ bashing?

[Your Realistic 2014 Lineup]

Why is there interest in Franklin from Seattle...a .225 average with a .303 OBP? We have enough guys who can't hit .250 or better.

He's only 22, a switch hitter with lots of upside. His minor league numbers are intriguing.

http://m.bbref.com/m?p=XXminorsXXplayer.cg...p;t=all_batting

 

[The Value of Chris Sale]

What level of major league talent? There have got to be at least 2 players, if not 3, with Sale potential (i.e. all star potential) to make it worthwhile. We need at least 2 in the bush to give up the bird in the hand.

Usable players in return for a player of Sale's caliber will retard our growth; we can sign cheap free agents to get those kind of players anyway.

Please read the thread. There have been plenty of players named already from both AZ and Seattle.

[Your Realistic 2014 Lineup]

Getting Franklin from Seattle for something centered around Dunn and Santiago is wishful thinking right?

 

I can get on board with that line of wishful thinking. Maybe if enough of us wish, it will happen.

They'll probably want Q back. Or Santiago/Danks

In line with the wishful thinking above, Santiago is now a mariner but Danks to the Yanks sounds good. Q stays put though.

[Your Realistic 2014 Lineup]

Now that the Yankees have Beltran, Ellsbury, Wells, Gardner, and Soriano, they'll probably make a trade. I'll gladly take Brett Gardner off their hands.

Count me in. Wonder what it would take?

[The Value of Chris Sale]

I'm not saying don't listen. I'm saying it's not wise to trade him for prospects. You really do have to get an incredible haul for him.

Agreed and that's what everyone that's open to the idea has said from the start of this thread. Not one person has said to call around and see what we can get. I just dont get where a certain poster is coming from, at all. I'm still laughing.

[The Value of Chris Sale]

Nobody you're getting is going to be as good as Sale in all likelihood. You get MLB ready players headlining the thing then great, that's what you would want. But just because Sale may be worth 7 WAR doesn't mean you can acquire a 2 WAR OF and a 3 WAR SP and a 1 WAR RP and a 1 WAR UT guy and everything is equal. All those guys have to be paid through the arbitration process, and even if you lock them up, you probably just end up with a bunch of parts that cost more payroll space. Furthermore none of those faces belong on billboards, on programs, in commercials, nor do their talents deserve showcases on national broadcasts, etc.

 

You're not going to replace Sale. Getting several very good MLB players serves exactly what purpose? When you DO get to the playoffs, where is your Game 1 stopper? What are your weapons? If you are in love with Gregorius you can get him without dealing Sale. If you are in love with this Davidson guy you can get him without Sale. Etc. You don't need to trade a filet mignon to afford 2-3 hamburgers. You can purchase smaller pieces separately.

 

I posted earlier in this thread how we went over 1100 picks and 23 years between the 2 aces we have drafted and developed within my lifetime. You don't just trade them.

 

The last thing I'm posting in this thread:

Juan Uribe = acquired for Aaron Miles, nothing special

DeAza, Jenks = waiver claims

Viciedo, Abreu, Ramirez = signings out of Cuba

Quintana = MiLB FA

Thornton, Politte, D Marte, E Loaiza & his magical 2003 season, etc. = all very low-level acquisitions which turned into gold

 

The list could go on and on. You don't need to trade one of the best players in baseball in order to acquire several much lesser pieces. That doesn't help. Hell, this time last year we had no Abreu, no Garcia. Peavy was looking at a $4M buyout to end a disappointing run, but instead he signs an extension, we trade him for Avisail, then some Cuban slugger defects, and what do we have? The makings of potentially a new middle of the order, all while having taken away exactly nothing from where we sat around this time a year ago. And you want to trade Sale?

Filet mignons, burgers, billboards, commercials etc? Wow

 

I'll discuss this topic with anyone else but with you I'm done. Life's just too short.

 

[The Value of Chris Sale]

You deal Q if you deal Sale because at that point you are pushing your contention window back at least another year, probably 2 or 3. At that point you are more worried about players in 2016-17 when Q is expensive anyway. Might as well sell at the highest point.

 

Re: gambles, proven players are far, far, far, far less of a gamble than talented but unproven ones, especially those who have never in their lives faced MLB hitters or MLB pitchers. That is a level that they cannot understand and have never known and you can't just say "Well Jimmy gets good grades in school so he can be an astronaut if he wants." Not that easy.

 

The return for Sale, I agree there I guess, and I've been saying, it would have to be stupid. Most people here thankfully don't like the idea of trading Sale, but if he were traded, the deal would have to be so lopsided that even those here who would never get on board with the idea of trading him would have to admit that it was the right move to make. Sale's deal is so team friendly, such a tiny overall risk in money owed to what his performance already is - I mean you're looking at guy who would be pushing $30M per if he keeps it up the way the market is going, and we have him for the next 6 years at under $48M. That's f***ing insane value. You would have to get back such a massive haul.... nothing I have seen posted on here as a trade idea would work. It would have to be insane. It would have to be so nuts that there would be nothing to mull over at all.

This where we disagree. Any trade for Sale would bring back major league ready talent. Take AZ for instance, guys like Davidson 3b, Gregorius SS, Parra etc. I'm not talking about A ball or AA ball players. At least a few of the players in return would be major league ready or already have gotten their feet wet which was stated earlier in this thread. Guys that can fill holes now as well as help in a year or so. This would speed up the rebuild, not slow it down.

 

As for Q, he doesn't hold nearly the value of Sale at this point and well we still need starting pitching after a Sale trade so keeping Q is the smart move. Again its about Sale's crazy value and how the return can help now and later, not years down the road.

 

Gambles. I guess I question Sale's short and long term durability. Reminds me too much of BMac but that's just my out-there opinion.

 

Allow me to throw something crazy out there and I admit its more conspiracy than anything. One thing that has left me vary curious is why the Sox allowed Sale to throw 110+ pitches deep into meaningless September games while racking up 214 IP on what ended up a 99 loss team when this guy is your long term future ace at only 24 yo? It makes no sense at all. I know you want to build up his arm strength but it still made no sense to me unless (conspiracy part) they were show casing him for a trade this winter. Just a crazy thought is all.

 

One thing I think we can agree on is the return has to include mlb ready talent along with a youn future front line pitcher.

[2013-14 off season player movement thread]

I think Beltran could hit well enough for the contract but fielding is another story considering the yanks dh and 1b positions are spoken for if Beltran struggles in the OF.

[The Value of John Danks]

The idea of value is their contract and control versus what their max value is. If a guy is a $20 million per year player and someone who would get a long term deal on the open market, and they have a much smaller contract than that in reality, then they have surplus value. That is the entire theme of this thread.

Gotcha. My bad for missing that, i see what you're saying now.

[The Value of Chris Sale]

TUC,

 

The point I'm trying to make as far as the DBack fan thing is just trying see it from their perspective and not just a Sox fans perspective. In the end I agree, what do any fans know? In hind sight, with bad trades and FA signings the same can be said about GM's. It comes back to baseball players over all are a gamble whether its trades, signings, drafting or injuries.

 

As far as keeping Q, its not about keeping Q, its about the possibility of a team in the market for an elite pitcher calling about Sale and his availablability and what that team would have to potentially offer up in return. Nothing to do with Q whatsoever. Its about Sale's value and the potentially insane return he could bring to a team with a bad farm and multiple holes to fill on the MLB roster. Due to Sale's youth, contract and the fact that he is so damn bad-ass his return would be potentially huge. As I said earlier in this thread, I admit that because of Sale's value he might be untradeable because his value would garner a huge return. A GM might not be willing to give up what Hahn would desire, then again a desperate gm just might which is what the discussion of a Sale trade is about.

[Hahn says trade talks have heated up.]

When? Jose Contreras deal was a freaking awesome deal for the Sox. Swisher didn't work out for us.

Haha no s***! Kenny got screwed by Billy and Cashman over the same player. Double penetration.

[2013-14 off season player movement thread]

I don't think we would be anymore, after bringing in Belisario

Agreed. Given Albers is looking to rebuild value the Sox could sign him for trade bait at the dead line. Its possible but the Sox pen is already stuffed with right handers so its most like the tribe and tigers that are interested.

[2013-14 off season player movement thread]

Also found this at MLBTR...

 

"Right-hander Matt Albers has already received at least one two-year contract offer from an interested team, Paul Hoynes of the Cleveland Plain Dealer reports. Albers has received interest from several clubs, and Hoynes reports that one of those teams is from the AL Central, possibly the Tigers or White Sox. The Indians have discussed a one-year deal with Albers and Hoynes speculates that the righty could take the shorter contract in order to help his value for next winter, provided he gets the right price."

 

Anyone think the Sox are interested?

[2013-14 off season player movement thread]

Per MLBTR...

 

"Red Sox To Re-Sign Mike Napoli

By Mark Polishuk [December 6 at 8:05pm CST]

The Red Sox have agreed to terms with Mike Napoli, Rob Bradford of WEEI.com reports (Twitter link). The contract is a two-year deal worth $32MM, according to CSNNE.com's Sean McAdam (via Twitter). The slugger confirmed his return on his own Twitter feed, saying "The beard is coming back to Boston!!!"

 

Earlier today, Rosenthal reported that Napoli had received an offer another club but his preference was to remain in Boston. The Marlins, Rangers, and Mariners were all rumored to be interested in Napoli's services, and Texas was believed to have made Napoli a larger offer, Bradford and Alex Speier report, but Napoli preferred to remain with the Sox and accepted their smaller deal."

 

Not a bad investment for only 2 years.

[The Value of John Danks]

You aren't reading my posts at all.

Oh but I am. Just don't get where you're coming from. Danks isn't a free agent, won't be til he's 31 and still needs to rebuild his value (that's no guarantee) so what's the point of the speculation in the first place? Not trying be a jerk, just don't get it is all.

[The Value of John Danks]

By the time Danks' contract is up he'll be 31. Who hell would offer a 31 yo starting pitcher a 7 year deal? Not sure even the Yankees are that crazy!

[The Value of Chris Sale]

The underlying problem with a Sale trade is that unless its for a Trout or Machado type player, there is no trade that will make us better, only trades that might make us better. You're simply gambling on enough of the prospects you get in return actually panning out. Unless you're getting six or seven of the top prospects in a very good system, trading Sale is a gamble that isn't worth taking IMO.

You also have to look at from the other point of view. Lets take Arizona and the players already mentioned in this thread. If you were a DBacks fan would you cough up the farm for Sale? Personally I would not despite how good Sale is and I've been a life long sox fan going back to the 70's. This is what I meant when I said fans over value their teams players. 6 or 7 top prospects is not reasonable at all and Sale is not worth that many from a team that has good prospects, period.

 

Keeping Sale is also a gamble since he is a pitcher and any pitcher is susceptible to shoulder, elbow injury. Baseball players in general are all gambles.

 

I still remember when the Sox questioned BMac's durability and also how he was untradable, wasn't long after that he was traded ( many fans freaked) and not long after that the injury bug came. This is the risk with any pitcher but especially the tall lanky guys. I'm not saying he will get hurt, just pointing out that it does happen. Again, players and trades alike are both huge gambles.

[Who willl win the Boras/Jay-Z agent war?]

I hope for Seattle's sake they can become contenders and remain contenders or these salaries are going to handcuff this team when fans don't come out and spend their money. If they contend it will workout but it isn't like they have the loyal fan base the Yankees have to fall back on which is why the Yanks are able spend the way they do. Better the Mariners than the Sox in my eyes.

[The Value of John Danks]

Danks getting a 7 year deal is just ludacris considering he hasn't pitched a full season let alone regain his old form. I just don't get where the idea comes from in the first place? Talk about the cart pushing the horse.

 

Let's just wait and see how Danks pitches first, injuries happen and we just might end up wanting/needing him around. The thing I like most about Danks is he a been a solid pitcher in the past and is easily still young enough to regain his old form.

[The Value of Chris Sale]

Because people tend to forget that even top 100 prospects flop at a high rate and honestly think we'll get four or five legit major leaguers in return for Sale.

People also tend to forget that: 1) the Sox have a bad farm and most talent is at AA or below 2) this team has a lot of holes at player positions 3) Sale can only help this team for 33 out of 162 games per year 4) like it or not the Sox ARE rebuilding and moving Sale in the right trade speeds that process up 5) even the Sox have been concerned in the past about Sale's durability, so if a team wants to offer up serious talent why not listen? 6) too many fans way over- value their favorite teams players, I saw this at the deadline when fans wanted top prospects for guys like Ramirez, Rios etc. I laughed hard to say the least!

 

IF, the right package were offered for Sale that makes this team better, I would put him on my back and carry him wherever he needed to go. If not, I look forward to watching his next start. First and foremost I am a Sox fan and a secondary fan of Sale. Team first.

[The Value of Chris Sale]

Well said. Obviously they would have to be overwhelmed to move Sale now, but if they got a pitcher with ace upside, and drafted another one in June, while getting 2-3 offensive players in the process, it wouldn't be a dumb move.

And this is the scenario people in favor of a trade are talking about. Sale can't fill all the holes in this team himself, but trading him can provided the right players are involved. This team needs position players bad but Sale can only help this team 33 games per year.

 

Never fall in love with any one specific player. Let's not forget we are sox fans first and foremost.