rafacosta Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 What does Maggs having the best BA on the team have to do with his coming up empty against the twins? You cant put Maggs in the same level of failure as Frank. Maggs is a guy that thinks first on the team, IMO. I will bet that he was thinking in that Twins series in doing the little things to help the team and not to pad up his stats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan99 Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 You cant put Maggs in the same level of failure as Frank. Maggs is a guy that thinks first on the team, IMO. I will bet that he was thinking in that Twins series in doing the little things to help the team and not to pad up his stats. I don't care what he was thinking the fact is he failed along with the rest of the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rafacosta Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 I don't care what he was thinking the fact is he failed along with the rest of the team. Me too... Â But i dont compare his failure to Frank. Just because of his attitude... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 I saw a few people bash on E-Lo and go unchallenged so Im curious if thats the common view. I think Loaiza did betray us and let us down. He had two chances to put away our rival and he failed both times, and then he failed again in a last ditch game against KC. He pitched great for us but when we truly needed him to be great, he couldnt do it. Personally, Im not overly fond of mediocre pitchers who come here and pitch like hell until we really need em where they go back to their old form. You guys have seen all year that Ive never been really fond of Loaiza, I always saw him as a bit of a fluke. Im not sure I want to see him back here next year either. Thoughts on this subject are appreciated... Traitor? Nah. Choker, defenitely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hotsoxchick1 Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 Without Loaiza, we wouldnt be here. And that would be a lot easier than being here and then blowing it. Loaiza carried us enough to get us into the race and then he let us down. Thats  well theres alot more to hate than just loz... it was a team effort that let us down.. not just one guy....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1549 Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 Traitor? Nah. Choker, defenitely. Nuke, I couldn't have said it any better.  Loiaza choked down the stretch, it was just god aweful too watch.  On the otherhand, I don't think we would be in a different position had he pitched better, because the problems extended far beyond E-Lo.  Simply E-Loaiza choked, but he still blew away our expectations of him, and had a damn good season.  Thats my story and I'm stickin' to it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxplosion Posted September 24, 2003 Author Share Posted September 24, 2003 Traitor? Nah. Choker, defenitely. NUKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiff Posted September 24, 2003 Share Posted September 24, 2003 Without Loaiza, we wouldnt be here. And that would be a lot easier than being here and then blowing it. Loaiza carried us enough to get us into the race and then he let us down. Thats what I hate... just boggles the mind... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted September 24, 2003 Share Posted September 24, 2003 just boggles the mind... Only if you actually take it seriously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighHeat45 Posted September 24, 2003 Share Posted September 24, 2003 I would consider a 20 game winner an ace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted September 24, 2003 Share Posted September 24, 2003 Roman will still complain along these lines: "SO WHAT, WERE STILL OUT OF IT. HE CHOKED WHEN WE NEEDED HIM MOST" or "HE'S LUCKY HE GOT HIS 20TH WIN........" Bank it. But now that I pointed this out he will quote me and just say something else to prove me wrong. Â Â I voted Ace a couple days ago and todays performance proved it. He gave up 3 runs to the New York Yankees over 6 innings; I give him credit despite his team coming back to support him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hotsoxchick1 Posted September 26, 2003 Share Posted September 26, 2003 what is absoultely funny in all of this... is that roman picked the name of the biggest benedict arnold involved with this team, as his screen name...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted September 26, 2003 Share Posted September 26, 2003 what is absoultely funny in all of this... is that roman picked the name of the biggest benedict arnold involved with this team, as his screen name...... Excellent point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxplosion Posted September 26, 2003 Author Share Posted September 26, 2003 Gandil, Jackson, Risberg, Weaver, Felsch, McMullin, Cicotte and Williams were the Benedict Arnolds of that whole mess... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFanForever Posted September 26, 2003 Share Posted September 26, 2003 Maybe if they were compensated decently for what they did they wouldn't have to do it. Read history before making stupid posts Roman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted September 26, 2003 Share Posted September 26, 2003 Gandil, Jackson, Risberg, Weaver, Felsch, McMullin, Cicotte and Williams were the Benedict Arnolds of that whole mess... For starters, earlier in this thread you said that Thomas has had a great year, but him choking come crunch time didn't matter because he's been having a good year and because he's a legend....that's f***ing BULLs***. I don't give a s*** what his numbers are, if both ELo and Frank choke, they are one and the same....chokers. Â And you brought up that Thomas was having a great year, mind his average. Loaiza has had a great ALL-AROUND year, and he's most likely in the top 5 in all the big stats for pitchers(ERA, W-L, K's, and QS's). Thomas isn't even close. Â And IIRC, Jackson nor Weaver received any money in that at all. They were at the meeting, but did not want to participate in it. You've never seen Eight Men Out, have you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxplosion Posted September 27, 2003 Author Share Posted September 27, 2003 Ive read the book. I could care less if they took money. They knew and did nothing. Jackson, who probably did nothing because he was too dumb to understand, was just as bad as Gandil... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted September 27, 2003 Share Posted September 27, 2003 You can read, roman?? Im impressed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxplosion Posted September 27, 2003 Author Share Posted September 27, 2003 Thats kinda a lame insult on a MESSAGE BOARD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted September 27, 2003 Share Posted September 27, 2003 Ive read the book. I could care less if they took money. They knew and did nothing. Jackson, who probably did nothing because he was too dumb to understand, was just as bad as Gandil... Oh so now you're taking cheap shots at one of the all-time great hitters in Joe Jackson, calling him too dumb to understand, and I assume you refer to him being illiterate. That's a low blow right there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted September 27, 2003 Share Posted September 27, 2003 Nobody will really ever know how much Jackson and Weaver knew, or when they knew it. Eight Men Out is not the definitive account of what happened. As that was also a look back through the smokiness of history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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