BrandoFan Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 I believe Mel Gibson just pulled wayyyy ahead in the race to become......."THE DUMBEST PERSON ON THE PLANET" What I am saying is that the man is impervious to logic, compassion, evidence, etc. He believs and that's f***ing that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimsonWeltall Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 you could say the same thing about billions of people Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 I agree that exclusivist ideology is sad--be it just for Catholics or for just one religion. Have you ever felt like you and ONLY you deserved that super-dooper fire-truck because you were more special than the other kids on the block? Face it, we view ourselves not only in terms of abstract absolutes and ideals, but also in terms of other people. What fun is it to go to Heaven if it's also full of the assorted undesirables you spent your entire life sneering at? You would infer that in God's eyes you're NO "better" than them. Heaven is the ultimate country club. Non-Catholics need not apply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 you could say the same thing about billions of people How many of them are fronting as neo-martyrs? How many of them have his immense fame and clout, which they then use to foist their propaganda on the public? How many of them are in MY face when I pick up a newspaper? I normally shrug at ol Mel and his hypocrisy and asshat-ness. But at the same time, when I feel like calling him what he IS or taking a shot at Passions, I do that whether his fans like it or not. Russell Crowe gets a lot of flak for pushing some dorky BAFTA shrub around. He isn't HALF the bigoted lying asshole MG is, nor does Russ present himself as a paragon of virtue, a Chosen Agent of Truth. Hence you don't see me talking s*** about Maximus. Meh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimsonWeltall Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 i was responding to the "mel is the dumbest person on the planet" comment, not about mel being a douchebag meatsock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 i was responding to the "mel is the dumbest person on the planet" comment, not about mel being a douchebag meatsock Stop being different and use the QUOTE feature then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimsonWeltall Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 id have to move the mouse like 3 full inches to press that button Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 Surveys are to be taken with a grain of salt--you can always find ways to make them say whatever it is you want them to. That's true. But how many times have you heard people answer "no, I don't believe in God. No way" when asked, whether it be in real life or on TV. I know that throughout childhood and adolescence, I've always answered with a resounding "I believe in god, of course" when in reality I was pretty f***ing confused and wouldn't even admit the greater doubts to myself. Heck, I would probably characterize myself as an agnostic with a secret even now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sox4lifeinPA Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 Meh, I don't see how Mel saying that is any different from regular Christians saying only Christians going to heaven--and then saying--well Gandhi was a great person, but he's damned. I agree that exclusivist ideology is sad--be it just for Catholics or for just one religion. is God then sad for chosing that one "way?" I mean, I understand your arguement, but why can't God be closed minded about how people should approach Him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxy Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 is God then sad for chosing that one "way?" I mean, I understand your arguement, but why can't God be closed minded about how people should approach Him? I just can't imagine a just merciful God that would choose that route. I feel there is a higher power--but there is such a diverse wellspring of people that were created by the Divine I don't know how one path can get all of the Creator's people Home... I have heard that Hell is Eternal seperation from God. And then, if that is true, then yes, I would say God would be eternally sad to be seperated from so much that was created by the Divine Hand...Imagine your own sorrow at never, ever, ever seeing your own child again--there couldn't be a deeper sadness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sox4lifeinPA Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 I completely agree... and then I wake up from my self-dillusioned dream and realize that this whole life, my whole life, isn't about me. In the end, He's glorified one way or another. my life is to prove His greatness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxy Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 I completely agree... and then I wake up from my self-dillusioned dream and realize that this whole life, my whole life, isn't about me. In the end, He's glorified one way or another. my life is to prove His greatness. Are you sure you don't go to Olaf...I'm sure I've had a class with you.... Anyway, I consider myself to lean more on the humanistic side here. Some Hindus believe God created the world out of sheer joy--we are expression of Divine happiness. To me salvation should reflect that a godly existence, filled with compassion, empathy, and love for others and a joi de vie is something that is rooted in the spirit in which we were created. I don't consider that selfish--nor do I consider it self-disillusioning. I may not be a Christian--but I realized a very long time ago there is a much larger good than myself that I should be working for... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sox4lifeinPA Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 soxy, I definitely wasn't saying that YOU were any of those things. I just wanted to dialogue about that, cos your comment most reflects what I'm trying to understand about my own faith. I whole heartedly agree with your last statement.... I realized a very long time ago there is a much larger good than myself that I should be working for... amen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 I mean, I understand your arguement, but why can't God be closed minded about how people should approach Him? The short asnwer was given by Little Jim: because God is not a vain, petulant child too stupid to see through self-serving ploys. Or something along those lines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 is God then sad for chosing that one "way?" I mean, I understand your arguement, but why can't God be closed minded about how people should approach Him? because one of the constants of God is that he is fair and just...so is it fair and just that people on this side of the globe get to learn everything there is about Jesus while someone in tibet or china might never get exposed to him???...or certainly not to the extent that we do in this country??.. there are many verses throughout the bible where it talks about God wanting a personal relationship with all of his children...if thats what God seeks why would the path to him be so close minded or narrow??? i dont have the answers to these questions..but over the years ive come to realize that those who believe their way is the only way havent figured it out either...the one thing ive taken from the bible is that if you seek God you will find Him...depending on where you are in this world that could happen in many ways... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 Imagine your own sorrow at never, ever, ever seeing your own child again--there couldn't be a deeper sadness. Then again, if my own child will be a vile POS, I would much rather not see him/her at all, and instead hang out and help other people's "good" kids. Don't ascribe to God such difinitively human quality as choosing one's own bloodline over honor, truth, justice, etc. It may be natural to us, but God is God is God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sox4lifeinPA Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 Then again, if my own child will be a vile POS, I would much rather not see him/her at all, and instead hang out and help other people's "good" kids. Don't ascribe to God such definitively human quality as choosing one's own bloodline over honor, truth, justice, etc. It may be natural to us, but God is God is God. woah.... where'd that come from? quality, Brando. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxy Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 Then again, if my own child will be a vile POS, I would much rather not see him/her at all, and instead hang out and help other people's "good" kids. Don't ascribe to God such definitively human quality as choosing one's own bloodline over honor, truth, justice, etc. It may be natural to us, but God is God is God. That's a good theological point. I'm just not sure I agree. Just to argue a Christian point--isn't the whole Jesus sent to Earth done to show that God cares and wanted the pos children of the earth in "eternal life?" There are certainly no easy answers--and I guess the road I've taken to where I'm at leads me to a very different conclusion. God is God. Love is Love. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlaSoxxJim Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 is God then sad for chosing that one "way?" I mean, I understand your arguement, but why can't God be closed minded about how people should approach Him? Brando paraphrased me fairly well on this. God was not made in the image of man, it's the other way around. To ascribe human foibles like close-mindedness, pettiness, jealousy and envy, etc., to an all=knowing, all-powerful, ALL-Loving (the big one mreally), is really selling the Big G short. A God that says, 'Offer up all of your works in My Name or else you're lost no matter how loving the acts' ?? Come on, Christians, you can do better. If you evver stumble upon Mark Twain's "Letters From the Earth," please pick it up and read it. It's a short, brilliant book and I guarantee you'll enjoy it. No fence painting or jumpig frogs in it, it's written as a series of lettters from Lucifer, who has been banished to Earth, back to the other Archangels (Basically why it was never published in his life, and only published after his daughter's death because she was afraid it would ruin the wholsome imae of Twain as Hannibal's Son and America's First Author...). It is a sympathetic portrayal of Ol' hornhead, and basically says that humans having wrong about the Devil is just the tiip of the iceberg as to how far off we arre on things spiritual. It includes many keen observations, such as the silliness of the traditional view of Heaven as choruses of angels on high playing harps and singing for all eternity - and notes that most people in life go out of their skulls after about 30 seconds of such fare, but somehow we pictture that in the afterlife it'll last forevver and we'll be in eternal bliss? I know most people's conception of the afterlife has evolved a lot and this is overstatement, but the point is that when we thrust out limited world view onto the image of the Divine realm we are going to fall woefully short by definition. Brando gave us a wonderful quote from Galbraith about Conservatives having the difficult task of trying to morally justify greed. We see precicely the same thing in Christian Conservatives who want to give all the worst human qualities to God (Hate, biggotry, intolerance, pettiness and close-mindedness), because if they're crafted in His image and they're a bunch of pricks, then God has to be made into the Divine Prick of Pricks. "God hates homosexual acts." "God on our side will allow us to beat, crush, and kill those damn religious fanatics in the Middle East" (isn't that an ironic one?). If there is a God, this brand of Christian certainly does not know Him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlaSoxxJim Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 there are many verses throughout the bible where it talks about God wanting a personal relationship with all of his children...if thats what God seeks why would the path to him be so close minded or narrow??? i dont have the answers to these questions..but over the years ive come to realize that those who believe their way is the only way havent figured it out either...the one thing ive taken from the bible is that if you seek God you will find Him...depending on where you are in this world that could happen in many ways... Kudos, Baggio! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 Brando paraphrased me fairly well on this. God was not made in the image of man, it's the other way around. To ascribe human foibles like close-mindedness, pettiness, jealousy and envy, etc., to an all=knowing, all-powerful, ALL-Loving (the big one mreally), is really selling the Big G short. A God that says, 'Offer up all of your works in My Name or else you're lost no matter how loving the acts' ?? Come on, Christians, you can do better. If you evver stumble upon Mark Twain's "Letters From the Earth," please pick it up and read it. It's a short, brilliant book and I guarantee you'll enjoy it. No fence painting or jumpig frogs in it, it's written as a series of lettters from Lucifer, who has been banished to Earth, back to the other Archangels (Basically why it was never published in his life, and only published after his daughter's death because she was afraid it would ruin the wholsome imae of Twain as Hannibal's Son and America's First Author...). It is a sympathetic portrayal of Ol' hornhead, and basically says that humans having wrong about the Devil is just the tiip of the iceberg as to how far off we arre on things spiritual. It includes many keen observations, such as the silliness of the traditional view of Heaven as choruses of angels on high playing harps and singing for all eternity - and notes that most people in life go out of their skulls after about 30 seconds of such fare, but somehow we pictture that in the afterlife it'll last forevver and we'll be in eternal bliss? I know most people's conception of the afterlife has evolved a lot and this is overstatement, but the point is that when we thrust out limited world view onto the image of the Divine realm we are going to fall woefully short by definition. Brando gave us a wonderful quote from Galbraith about Conservatives having the difficult task of trying to morally justify greed. We see precicely the same thing in Christian Conservatives who want to give all the worst human qualities to God (Hate, biggotry, intolerance, pettiness and close-mindedness), because if they're crafted in His image and they're a bunch of pricks, then God has to be made into the Divine Prick of Pricks. "God hates homosexual acts." "God on our side will allow us to beat, crush, and kill those damn religious fanatics in the Middle East" (isn't that an ironic one?). If there is a God, this brand of Christian certainly does not know Him. Mark Twain can do no wrong. Evah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 woah.... where'd that come from? quality, Brando. Where did what come from? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sox4lifeinPA Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 That's a good theological point. I'm just not sure I agree. Just to argue a Christian point--isn't the whole Jesus sent to Earth done to show that God cares and wanted the pos children of the earth in "eternal life?" There are certainly no easy answers--and I guess the road I've taken to where I'm at leads me to a very different conclusion. God is God. Love is Love. read romans 9.... those who "find salvation", were just elected to begin with. God chose them from the outset. some were chosen for heaven, some were chosen for hell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1549 Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 NEW YORK — Days before the release of Mel Gibson's (search) film about the death of Jesus, which some critics say could fuel anti-Semitism, his father has told an interviewer that the Holocaust was mostly "fiction." Steve Feuerstein (search) — host of "Speak Your Piece!" — said he interviewed Hutton Gibson for a segment of his show to be broadcast Monday by the small Talkline Communications Network. According to a transcript released by the network, Hutton Gibson (search) said, "It's all — maybe not all fiction — but most of it is," when asked about his views on the Holocaust. He added: "They claimed that there were 6.2 million (Jews) in Poland before the war and after the war there were 200,000, therefore he (Hitler) must have killed 6 million of them. They simply got up and left. They were all over the Bronx and Brooklyn and Sydney and Los Angeles." The interview comes at a sensitive time for Mel Gibson, whose epic "The Passion of the Christ" (search) is due to open Wednesday. Some Jewish leaders say the movie could fuel anti-Semitism for its portrayal of Jews' role in the crucifixion, while conservative Christians have praised it as a moving depiction of Christ's death. Gibson, who produced, directed and co-wrote the film, has said repeatedly that he is not anti-Semitic and that the project was a deeply personal expression of his own faith. Hutton Gibson has an unpublished phone number at his home outside Houston and could not be reached for comment. Alan Nierob, a spokesman for Mel Gibson, declined to comment on the interview. Hutton Gibson follows a tiny wing of traditionalist Catholicism that views the modernizing reforms of the Second Vatican Council (search) as a conspiracy between Jews and Masons to take over the church. The elder Gibson has stirred controversy in previous interviews with remarks on the Holocaust and Judaism, but had kept quiet in the months leading up to the release of "The Passion." In this latest interview, Gibson said Jews want to take over the world. He did not know why Jews would want to achieve that, but said "it's all about control. They're after one world religion and one world government." Asked in media interviews whether he shares his father's views, Mel Gibson has said that he loves his father and will not speak against him. Zev Brenner, owner of Talkline, which he calls a Jewish network, has been calling for a boycott of all of Mel Gibson's movies. -------------------------------------------------------- Its very unfortunate that people will not recognize and pay their respects to one of the worlds greatest tragedies. I do not believe Mel Gibson is an anti-semite, but this will not help his reputation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 Could this be combined with Mel Gibson thread? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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