Texsox Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 In order of save opportunities (6 or more) Green better than Koch Blue Same or close Red Billy's Better Rivera NYY 23/24 Botch sucks Cordero Tex 1-0 18/18 Botch sucks Percival ANA 2-1 13/17 Billy's OK Nathan Min 1-0 15/16 Botch Guardado Sea 1-0 10/13 Billy's ok Foulke Bos 1-0 11/12 Botch Rhodes Oak 8/12 2-3 Billy's actually better Baez TB 1-1 11/11 Botch Julio BAL 1-1 9/11 Billy's OK Koch CWS 8/11 1-1 Urbina Det 7/8 1-2 Botch Affeld KC 1-3 6/7 Billy's OK Marte CHW 1-2 2/6 Billy's better Riske Cle 2-2 2/6 Billy's better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted June 7, 2004 Author Share Posted June 7, 2004 Of course this doesn't show how he got there. The walks, lead off hits, etc. Just the final outcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 In order of save opportunities (6 or more) Green better than Koch Blue Same or close Red Billy's Better Rivera NYY 23/24 Botch sucks Cordero Tex 1-0 18/18 Botch sucks Percival ANA 2-1 13/17 Billy's OK Nathan Min 1-0 15/16 Botch Guardado Sea 1-0 10/13 Billy's ok Foulke Bos 1-0 11/12 Botch Rhodes Oak 8/12 2-3 Billy's actually better Baez TB 1-1 11/11 Botch Julio BAL 1-1 9/11 Billy's OK Koch CWS 8/11 1-1 Urbina Det 7/8 1-2 Botch Affeld KC 1-3 6/7 Billy's OK Marte CHW 1-2 2/6 Billy's better Riske Cle 2-2 2/6 Billy's better Yeah, but you should add in the "heart attack factor" with Botch. Seems like he cant have an easy inning unless he's in a make-work outing with a 10 run lead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted June 7, 2004 Author Share Posted June 7, 2004 I looked it up to see just how much he really sucked. The post I had typed 2 minutes after the game was 120 WPM, profanity laced, and couldn't get through do to everybody else typing a profanity laced Botch Sucks post. This morning I started to wonder about other closers and if there is any hope. The questions in my mind are: If Ozzie dumps Koch as closer, is there any chance of him returning to that roll if everything else we try doesn't work? If once he is pulled, he's through, is this the time, or should we give it just a little longer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniKrush Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 I think there are enough options you can try as closer in order to find something that will work, even if something Ozzie tries fails off the bat. I understand your point, but i think at this point he's shown he simply cannot handle the job for a playoff contending team. Perhaps some people are looking back on yesterday and saying "it's only one game", etc, and saying they overreacted. But it's the day after and haven't changed my stance on Koch one bit. I truly think he's done as a closer for this ballclub. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wong & Owens Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 What I think he needs is to take some time and develop an offspeed pitch that he can control consistently. A 94 mph fastball is still perfectly fine, but only if hitters think they actually might need to worry about a different pitch coming. The main problem with Koch is that hitters can sit on his straight fastball, because they know he can't throw 3 breaking balls over for strikes. Can he be sent to AAA to work on this? Bring Wunsch back up, make Takatsu your closer, and let Wunsch/Jackson and Marte work the 7th and 8th, when necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 What I think he needs is to take some time and develop an offspeed pitch that he can control consistently. A 94 mph fastball is still perfectly fine, but only if hitters think they actually might need to worry about a different pitch coming. The main problem with Koch is that hitters can sit on his straight fastball, because they know he can't throw 3 breaking balls over for strikes. Can he be sent to AAA to work on this? Bring Wunsch back up, make Takatsu your closer, and let Wunsch/Jackson and Marte work the 7th and 8th, when necessary. I think you'd have to designate him for assignment, and then it would be up to him to accept it. Someone else can probably explain this a little better, but if I remember this correctly(and I may not be remembering this correctly...this could be all wrong), we designate Koch for assignment, and he can then accept it, clear waivers, and go to the minors, or he can not accept it, and ask to be traded or released(both of those are highly unlikely). If he does not accept it, and we cannot trade him(and, in all likelyhood, we would not release him with his salary), we have to keep him on the team. I do think it is time for Koch to feel a little "twinge" in his shoulder, get put on the DL, wait a week or two to just let him clear his head, and then let him start his rehab ASAP, and then he can figure s*** out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 Koch's breaking ball was nasty last night... he just couldnt get to 0-2 to use it but he made Ichiro look like a fool with it when it rains it pours, last night wasnt Kochs night.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aboz56 Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 I think you'd have to designate him for assignment, and then it would be up to him to accept it. Someone else can probably explain this a little better, but if I remember this correctly(and I may not be remembering this correctly...this could be all wrong), we designate Koch for assignment, and he can then accept it, clear waivers, and go to the minors, or he can not accept it, and ask to be traded or released(both of those are highly unlikely). If he does not accept it, and we cannot trade him(and, in all likelyhood, we would not release him with his salary), we have to keep him on the team. I do think it is time for Koch to feel a little "twinge" in his shoulder, get put on the DL, wait a week or two to just let him clear his head, and then let him start his rehab ASAP, and then he can figure s*** out. There is no cure for a BP fastball... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 Yeah, but you should add in the "heart attack factor" with Botch. Seems like he cant have an easy inning unless he's in a make-work outing with a 10 run lead. Where are you people getting this idea? Remember the last Twins game we won? He had an 11 run lead and he STILL couldn't get out of the inning without giving up a run. This guy is f***ing terrible. :fyou Koch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonkeyKongerko Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 Remember the last Twins game we won? He had an 11 run lead and he STILL couldn't get out of the inning without giving up a run. This guy is f***ing terrible. :fyou Koch Come on, everyone gives up homeruns to Christian Guzman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greasywheels121 Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 Koch's breaking ball was nasty last night... he just couldnt get to 0-2 to use it but he made Ichiro look like a fool with it when it rains it pours, last night wasnt Kochs night.. LOL... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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