SoxRule Posted October 27, 2004 Share Posted October 27, 2004 babybearhater, if you really believe what you say then it's probably your hatred of the Cubs talking more than common sense. I hate the Cubs too but I can at least assess their team logically. You say Wood has never won more than 14 games in a season? Have you seen the types of teams he's been on and how little run support he's received? On a team with a halfway decent offense he could easily win close to 20 games. Like jackie said, when he's on he's almost unhittable. And Maddux was still able to win 16 games on a Cubs team that was offensively challenged for the most part this past year. Prior and Zambrano are pure studs, no doubt about it. The Cubs have an awesome rotation, much better than the Sox. I hate it but it's the truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 Calling someone a Cubs fan just for being honest is uncalled for. And why is it you know all these Cubs links? They really did have one hell of a rotation this year. Wood will never throw a full year, and he's inconsistent even when healthy, but on a good day he's almost unhittable. Not an ace, but a great player to have. But they have 2 ace-quality pitchers in Zambrano and Prior, both very cheap. Granted, Prior wasn't very good after returning from the injury, but I just can't discount what I saw 2 seasons ago. Maddux is overpaid, but he still gives you a lot of innings w/ pinpoint control. And I don't know what to say about Clement -- he's not often dominant, but he's been remarkably consistent over the last few years. What staff doesn't have the risk of injury? Florida's certainly struggled the last couple years (Burnett, Beckett, Penny), and the Diamondbacks last season. A team has to be talented and lucky. Anyway, a healthy RJ would put the Sox into the top class, I think, a notch below the Cubs and Oakland, about even with Florida and Boston (depending on fa pickups). Houston could be even or just better, depending on Clemens and Backe. Maddux is overpaid? I'd gladly spend $5Million a year to put him in our rotation. And that's to say nothing of the effect he could have on guys like Garland, Cotts, Adkins, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 Maddux is overpaid? I'd gladly spend $5Million a year to put him in our rotation. And that's to say nothing of the effect he could have on guys like Garland, Cotts, Adkins, etc. Well, I think it's $6 mil this season, but that doesn't really change your point. He's definitely worth that much. I meant that before this season, I thought signing him to an $8 mil per year deal (on average) over 3 years was risky -- especially w/ Angel Guzman and Juan Cruz waiting in the wings. But Maddux has shown that he's probably worth even that much after his strong season (and Guzman's injury). So you're probably right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesox91403 Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 I'm not sure when Carlos hit that 1000 AB mark, but 2 years ago there was a multitude right here on Soxtalk that wanted to dump Carlos "the lawn ornament" Lee. This may be another topic for another thread, but personally I would love to see Carlos Lee leave town. My buddies and I called him the anti-clutch. This guy never seems to get a big hit, ever. I don't know his statistics with RISP and I understand that his numbers, avg, HR, RBI, etc.....were good, but he always swung at the first pitch and would pop everything up. If KW trades anyone this offseason, make it Carlos Lee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesox91403 Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 I agree, do not trade Rowand. I have read several other posts that have said do not trade prospects.......Sweeney, Anderson, McCarthy...etc. But, dammit, if trading those guys for Randy Johnson or any other superstar that will get us to The Series and give us a chance to win it fine. Pull the trigger, make the trade. We have all been through rebuilding with this team before, I would do it again for just one title on the southside. Besides, they are just prospects, so was Rodney Bolton and Scott Ruffcorn, what the hell did they get us? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitlesswonder Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 This may be another topic for another thread, but personally I would love to see Carlos Lee leave town. My buddies and I called him the anti-clutch. This guy never seems to get a big hit, ever. I don't know his statistics with RISP and I understand that his numbers, avg, HR, RBI, etc.....were good, but he always swung at the first pitch and would pop everything up. If KW trades anyone this offseason, make it Carlos Lee. Last season Lee hit .299 with an OPS of .876 with RISP. He didn't do as well with RISP and 2 outs or in close/late situations, but for those situations the sample sizes are tiny. I don't think he's anti-clutch, and I don't think that performance with RISP for a season should define a players worth (if it did, Timo Perez should start in RF of CF next seasson and that's not a good idea). Looking at the Sox offense for next season, Lee is about the only player I'm sure will produce good numbers. Thomas may be hurt, Rowand and Uribe have each had one really good year (I like them both, but they aren't sure things), Everett looked lousy this year, and Konerko's performance could fall off the face of earth like it did in 2003. Players that put up Lee's numbers at the major league level aren't that easy to find, and I'd like to keep him. Sure, if a really good trade comes up you have to do it but the Sox should get a lot for him. And if he's traded for pitching, they'll need to bring in a quality veteran bat to replace him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitlesswonder Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 i dont know why everyone is so against trading aaron rowand... has no one ever heard of sell high buy low....rowands value is more right now then its probably ever going to be.. he is young cheap and coming off a good season... but he isnt established enough to be 100% he will do it again.,... rowand has a chance to be a good player yeah but not great and with RJ on our team are pitching rotation is seriously awesome 1-5 with the real only ? being contreras Also RJ's contract isnt straight up 16 million a lot of its deffered and i think its more then just the two years I agree that buy low/sell high is good plan, and now would be a good time to trade Rowand if you think he won't come close to this year's numbers again. But I wouldn't do it. The Sox don't have much young, cheap talent and given their payroll restrictions they need to have some cheap and productive players to compete. Also, he may not become a great player, but he had a great season last year. He posted a .900 OPS playing centerfield. Other players to do that are named Beltran and Edmonds (and I think Burnitz, but still). Offensively he was the best CF in the AL last season, I think only Damon was close. If he can continue to play a good CF and only posts an .800 OPS, that's still great for the position. To trade him as part of a package for one year of a 41-year old pitcher who makes 16 million and has his knee lubricated (shot up) before each start doesn't seem like a good idea to me. RJ is great, maybe the best pitcher besides Santana in MLB last year. But even if he stays healthy next season, he doesn't make the Sox better than the Twins if you subtract Rowand and Garland (and replace them with Grilli and Timo). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesox91403 Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 Last season Lee hit .299 with an OPS of .876 with RISP. He didn't do as well with RISP and 2 outs or in close/late situations, but for those situations the sample sizes are tiny. I don't think he's anti-clutch, and I don't think that performance with RISP for a season should define a players worth (if it did, Timo Perez should start in RF of CF next seasson and that's not a good idea). Looking at the Sox offense for next season, Lee is about the only player I'm sure will produce good numbers. Thomas may be hurt, Rowand and Uribe have each had one really good year (I like them both, but they aren't sure things), Everett looked lousy this year, and Konerko's performance could fall off the face of earth like it did in 2003. Players that put up Lee's numbers at the major league level aren't that easy to find, and I'd like to keep him. Sure, if a really good trade comes up you have to do it but the Sox should get a lot for him. And if he's traded for pitching, they'll need to bring in a quality veteran bat to replace him. Hitless, Thanks for the numbers on Lee. Maybe it's just my bias, but I really don't like him. I guess a big part of me thought that he could carry this team when Frank/Maggs got hurt, probably unfair expectations on my part. It just seemed like every time he came up in a big situation, he would pop out. I would not be heart broken to see him go. I like Rowand and Uribe too, I hope last year was just the beginning for those two. Same for Gload. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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