Rowand44 Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 I know me, santo=dorf and someone else had a list of over like 40-45 3,4, and 5th starters he is better than. I would search for it but my search no longer works. I remember, I tried searching for it and I couldn't find it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babybearhater Posted November 9, 2004 Author Share Posted November 9, 2004 I know me, santo=dorf and someone else had a list of over like 40-45 3,4, and 5th starters he is better than. I would search for it but my search no longer works. you can go ahead and find that list then, but if they are making less money than Garland is making then I wouldnt consider it a valid argument. Especially on a team that has a limited budget. If a team such as the yankees or red sox, cubs or anaheim have 4th and 5th starters that make 4 million a year, its because they can afford it. We cant afford a 3 million dollar fifth starter who will not win more than 12 games during the year. On a team with our payroll, and what looks like an improving 1, 2 and 3 starter, all you need out of your fith is 10 wins. And that can be had at alot less money than Garland makes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babybearhater Posted November 9, 2004 Author Share Posted November 9, 2004 Away from Coop? What do you want me to go back when we still had Nardi as pitching coach? That stat you proposed is meaningless because we didn't even have most of the same pitchers under Nardi as we did Coop besides Buehrle and Garland. Now if you're looking for combined team E.R.A., I'm sure that could be found. However when I went to MLB.com the computer was not able to compute the teams team stats from 2003 even. I still don't think Coop deserves to be fired, not yet anyway. I know most are upset at Coop because of the way our young pitchers were handled when it was their turn to start in that 5th spot. (Cotts, Rauch, Diaz, Munoz), but that decision was not Coops alone. My example I used proved that U.S. Cellular Field is a hitters park, those high ERA's prove it obviously, and so does the fact that there were more home runs at the Cell than at Coors Field this year. If the only reason people why people want Cooper canned is because of high E.R.A.'s at home, than they really ought to think more logically. CWSOX45 So you are saying we should fire US cellular field????? Just because it is a hitters park does not mean that is the sole reason that our arms cant seem to develop under Cooper's coaching. Im pretty sure that, even in the NL, and at great hitters park, the cubs staff has turned in some pretty good numbers. :fthecubs As I said before, we have had almost 10 pitchers try a spot in the rotation and fail on our team. Garland, Wells (David), Koch. Loaiza actually got worse the longer he worked with our staff, then went to the yankees, who changed his delivery and his arm angle after his bad starts with the same technique he was using with us. After they changed his approach, he pitched very well in the playoffs. This is just a recent observation, Coop has had plenty of time to work with young arms which were very highly regarded by many other coaches and scouts around the league, and somehow only Buerhle has developed. Kinda makes you wonder how everyone can be wrong everytime Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FUCKREINSDORF Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 It's sad to put the blame on a pitching coach,but you're right. Cooper's got to go. :headshake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 Loaiza actually got worse the longer he worked with our staff, then went to the yankees, who changed his delivery and his arm angle after his bad starts with the same technique he was using with us. After they changed his approach, he pitched very well in the playoffs. ELo would not listen to Ozzie or Cooper. They tried and tried and tried to change his approach to hitters, and he would not listen. That was the main reason they traded him. And it took him getting dumped into the pen, before Esteban would even listen to the Yankees. It isn't that he isn't being coached, its that he has refused to listen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSOX45 Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 So you are saying we should fire US cellular field????? Yes. Fire the Cell. Damn hitters park. I never suggested firing ANYBODY. I still think it's too soon to fire Cooper. The only reason Loaiza had ANY sucess is because of the cutter Cooper taught him. Not to mention the fact that Jose Contreras was great for us, at least to compared what he was in New York. I think Cooper is still a hell of a pitching coach, but as I mentioned before in previous posts, if there is no visible improvement than Coop should be canned. CWSOX45 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babybearhater Posted November 9, 2004 Author Share Posted November 9, 2004 ELo would not listen to Ozzie or Cooper. They tried and tried and tried to change his approach to hitters, and he would not listen. That was the main reason they traded him. And it took him getting dumped into the pen, before Esteban would even listen to the Yankees. It isn't that he isn't being coached, its that he has refused to listen. oh im sorry, I didnt realize you spoke to him daily, my bad by the way, its was his approach to the hitters that was changed. Bring up some tape of him in the playoffs, and check out his windup, arm angle and set position Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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