> Supreme Court rules for Kansas Death penalty

[minors]

Good case in which Alito stepped and ruled for the Kansas Death Penalty. The case used was one where a guy shot and slit the throat of his wife then burned both her and her 19 month old daughter. I just wonder if last year if the same decision would have come down. This guy certainly deserved to die and it is about time that the Court understood that the DP is a correct punishment. Of course the 4 votes against were the liberal judges who seem to think it is cruel and unusual punishment and that the founding didn't believe in executions which is of course horse s*** because executions used to happen aplenty in those days and no one cared because the right thing was being done. Also it is time for Stevens to retire he is a liberal dinosaur that is out of touch with American values. He cares more for the criminal than the victim and invents new ways for the murdering rapists thugs to go free. Thank God for the 4 wise members and to Judge Alito for upholding justice.

 

Justice Alito

 

Judge Thomas

 

Chief Justice Roberts

 

Judge Kennedy

 

Judge Scalia

 

Alito rules in favor of Kansas

Edited June 26, 2006 by minors

[juddling]

I know the same DP arguements will come up and the same people will fall on the same sides whether for or against...but i personally want to give a big HELL YEA!!!!!!!!!!!!!! to the Supreme Court

[Rex Kickass]

This is being seen as a victory for States' Rights. Which confuses me. Although this is a law that was passed by the State Legislature, it was found unconstitutional by the State Supreme Court.

[minors]

This is being seen as a victory for States' Rights. Which confuses me. Although this is a law that was passed by the State Legislature, it was found unconstitutional by the State Supreme Court.

 

 

It is confusing but I view also view it as a win for the States because the Supreme court decides not to tell the states what kind of standards are needed. I believe this crime meets the eliminate of a DP crime in every way. It involved killing of more than one person in the same act, A child under 12 plus the way in which the killing took place. All in all a solid decision made by the court.

[Soxbadger]

I personally do not like the death penalty.

 

I do not think that it is a very good deterent, and I do not think that it works any better than life imprisonment. The reason I do not like it is because trials are in the hands of humans, humans will make mistakes. When some one is put to death, there is no "we found new evidence" or "we made a mistake" its done. And after seeing how many criminals have been released because of DNA evidence, I only wonder if in the future we will find even better CSI technology.

 

But if the state has the death penalty, then they should be able to give it whatever preference they want. They can make it for only extreme cases, or they can make it for every case.

[Soxy]

But if the state has the death penalty, then they should be able to give it whatever preference they want. They can make it for only extreme cases, or they can make it for every case.

*Draws up proposal for death penalty for people who pass on the shoulder and who run red lights*

[minors]

Execution

 

Well no more countdown needed bye bye thug. So much for him saying he couldn't be killed because he was an angel. One less thug on this planet.

 

 

To the State of Texas

Edited June 28, 2006 by minors

[BHAMBARONS]

Execution

 

Well no more countdown needed bye bye thug. So much for him saying he couldn't be killed because he was an angel. One less thug on this planet.

To the State of Texas

 

Is that enough for the death talk, he might have deserved to die but there is no need for countdowns and this cheering.

[Gregory Pratt]

Execution

 

Well no more countdown needed bye bye thug. So much for him saying he couldn't be killed because he was an angel. One less thug on this planet.

To the State of Texas

 

It's pretty thuggish to sit around cheering an execution, Warden.

 

Is that enough for the death talk, he might have deserved to die but there is no need for countdowns and this cheering.

 

HIPPIE!

[LowerCaseRepublican]

It's pretty thuggish to sit around cheering an execution, Warden.

HIPPIE!

Exactly.

 

You know, I feel safer already. With the news outlets permeating the news that we killed a criminal, I'll think there won't be any more murders.

[BHAMBARONS]

It's pretty thuggish to sit around cheering an execution, Warden.

HIPPIE!

 

 

I am not even saying that I am against the Penalty in this case But I refuse to sit around cheering someone's death.

[minors]

Is that enough for the death talk, he might have deserved to die but there is no need for countdowns and this cheering.

 

I can countdown or do what ever I want to. Again you do not have the guts to take a criticism instead you have to go cry about it.

 

It's pretty thuggish to sit around cheering an execution, Warden.

HIPPIE!

 

I think it is damn good thing to do. Nobody has stood up for his victims so I am going to they had to wait 7-9 years for this day and they finally get it. And before I hear the well some victims family don't want to see it well these families were in attendance so I feel real good for them. Finally now they can get closure and never have to worry if this thug will kill again. One reason why I am a staunch supporter because unless liberals can convince me that these thugs will never get out an kill again this is the only method of making sure it doesn't happen again.

 

Exactly.

 

You know, I feel safer already. With the news outlets permeating the news that we killed a criminal, I'll think there won't be any more murders.

 

But there is one less rapeist/murder on this earth which is a good thing.

[LowerCaseRepublican]

All life is sacred...unless you commit a crime that we don't happen to like.

 

And plenty of people stood up for his victims...like let's see.

 

-Police Department

-Coroner and the forensics team

-Detectives who investigated the case

-The squad that took the case

-John Walsh and his nationally televised show "America's Most Wanted"

-The people who watched the show

-The prosecutors

-The jury

-The judge

-The local taxpayers

-The public that likes to see murderers put into jail but not necessarily executed

-The federal Congressmen who put laws in place so he could be prosecuted

-The state government who put laws in place so he could be prosecuted

 

Gee, thats a list just off the top of my head about "Who speaks for the victim."

 

And the reasons for the death penalty seem to get blasted around like a windsock. "It costs less!" -- No it doesn't. "Well then its the damn appeals!" -- Yeah, but those are mandated by law so we don't make mistakes since there has been numerous innocent people freed. "Well then its the they deserve to die!" -- Then that short circuits the idea that life is sacred from conception. You can't be against abortion, against euthanasia and for capital punishment without having some major league cognitive dissonance going on. Then it became "It deters." Sorry, no it doesn't. Now it is the "Well we have to make sure they can't kill again".

 

And this is from Rev. Ricky Hoyt: "By removing the opportunity for rehabilitation, the death penalty becomes a different punishment in kind, not just degree, from fines and prison time and so on. Our prisons have always maintained a tense balance designed in part to simply cause pain and discomfort to the inmates, but also to encourage rehabilitation. The finality of the death penalty removes even the pretense of rehabilitation. That difference makes moral assumptions about the human nature of murderers being irredeemable, or not worthy of redemption. And by implication the existence of the death penalty in the approved spectrum of punishments calls into question whether rehabilitation is ever an actual goal for criminals or if the rehabilitation goal exists only as a high-minded gloss over the true goal, revenge...Because execution does not return life to the victim it satisfies only our desire for revenge not our urge to justice. Because all life is valuable we must uphold the worth of the murderer's life even as we uphold the worth of the victim's life. Because all life has inherent worth we must see that value of life is not destroyed by the murderer's actions. Because we can express our abhorence of murder through taking away freedom there is no need for a death penalty. Because our secular society as well as, increasingly, our religions and our religious leaders teach that capital punishment is wrong. I say no. The death penalty is morally wrong, not because there are questions of how it is applied and to whom and under what circumstances, but because it simply is, always is, morally wrong."

[minors]

All life is sacred...unless you commit a crime that we don't happen to like.

 

And plenty of people stood up for his victims...like let's see.

 

-Police Department

-Coroner and the forensics team

-Detectives who investigated the case

-The squad that took the case

-John Walsh and his nationally televised show "America's Most Wanted"

-The people who watched the show

-The prosecutors

-The jury

-The judge

-The local taxpayers

-The public that likes to see murderers put into jail but not necessarily executed

-The federal Congressmen who put laws in place so he could be prosecuted

-The state government who put laws in place so he could be prosecuted

 

Gee, thats a list just off the top of my head about "Who speaks for the victim."

 

And the reasons for the death penalty seem to get blasted around like a windsock. "It costs less!" -- No it doesn't. "Well then its the damn appeals!" -- Yeah, but those are mandated by law so we don't make mistakes since there has been numerous innocent people freed. "Well then its the they deserve to die!" -- Then that short circuits the idea that life is sacred from conception. You can't be against abortion, against euthanasia and for capital punishment without having some major league cognitive dissonance going on. Then it became "It deters." Sorry, no it doesn't. Now it is the "Well we have to make sure they can't kill again".

 

And this is from Rev. Ricky Hoyt: "By removing the opportunity for rehabilitation, the death penalty becomes a different punishment in kind, not just degree, from fines and prison time and so on. Our prisons have always maintained a tense balance designed in part to simply cause pain and discomfort to the inmates, but also to encourage rehabilitation. The finality of the death penalty removes even the pretense of rehabilitation. That difference makes moral assumptions about the human nature of murderers being irredeemable, or not worthy of redemption. And by implication the existence of the death penalty in the approved spectrum of punishments calls into question whether rehabilitation is ever an actual goal for criminals or if the rehabilitation goal exists only as a high-minded gloss over the true goal, revenge...Because execution does not return life to the victim it satisfies only our desire for revenge not our urge to justice. Because all life is valuable we must uphold the worth of the murderer's life even as we uphold the worth of the victim's life. Because all life has inherent worth we must see that value of life is not destroyed by the murderer's actions. Because we can express our abhorence of murder through taking away freedom there is no need for a death penalty. Because our secular society as well as, increasingly, our religions and our religious leaders teach that capital punishment is wrong. I say no. The death penalty is morally wrong, not because there are questions of how it is applied and to whom and under what circumstances, but because it simply is, always is, morally wrong."

 

 

You seem to defend the thugs a lot. Did you read what this bastard done? I bet not. I never dreamed anyone could support this guy much less the way you are. And what is your problem with America's most wanted maybe because they catch fugitive thugs and it might not be fair for them or violate they rights? Really I don't understand all of this support for these thugs. And no I am not in it for revenge I am in it to make sure these thugs can't kill again. There have been many cases of thugs that murdered got LWOP but yet they got freed or escaped and went on to kill again only this time they learned from there mistakes and were able to kill more. And when does cost come to play in justice when we can do something right and get the proper justice we should not need to pinch pennies. Liberals spend much more money on a lot more foolish stuff than getting the proper justice.

[LowerCaseRepublican]

You seem to defend the thugs a lot. Did you read what this bastard done? I bet not. I never dreamed anyone could support this guy much less the way you are. And what is your problem with America's most wanted maybe because they catch fugitive thugs and it might not be fair for them or violate they rights? Really I don't understand all of this support for these thugs. And no I am not in it for revenge I am in it to make sure these thugs can't kill again. There have been many cases of thugs that murdered got LWOP but yet they got freed or escaped and went on to kill again only this time they learned from there mistakes and were able to kill more. And when does cost come to play in justice when we can do something right and get the proper justice we should not need to pinch pennies. Liberals spend much more money on a lot more foolish stuff than getting the proper justice.

From Clarence Darrow during the Leopold and Loeb trial because he put it much more succintly than I.

 

"What is [the State's Attorney's] idea of justice? He says to this court...'Give them the same mercy that they gave to Bobby Franks.' Is that the law? Is that justice? Is this what a court should do? Is this what a State's Attorney should do? If the state in which I live is not kinder, more human, more considerate, more intelligent than the mad act of these two boys, I am sorry that I have lived so long."

[FlaSoxxJim]

If the state in which I live is not kinder, more human, more considerate, more intelligent than the mad act of these two boys, I am sorry that I have lived so long."

 

^^^

 

An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.

-- That hippy-smellin' motherf***er Gandhi

[The Ginger Kid]

From Clarence Darrow during the Leopold and Loeb trial because he put it much more succintly than I.

 

"What is [the State's Attorney's] idea of justice? He says to this court...'Give them the same mercy that they gave to Bobby Franks.' Is that the law? Is that justice? Is this what a court should do? Is this what a State's Attorney should do? If the state in which I live is not kinder, more human, more considerate, more intelligent than the mad act of these two boys, I am sorry that I have lived so long."

wow.

 

what an awesome quote.

[Cknolls]

Is that enough for the death talk, he might have deserved to die but there is no need for countdowns and this cheering.

 

 

to minors

[Rex Kickass]

There have been many cases of thugs that murdered got LWOP but yet they got freed or escaped and went on to kill again only this time they learned from there mistakes and were able to kill more.

 

Name one case where someone serving Life without Parole got out and killed again.

[minors]

Name one case where someone serving Life without Parole got out and killed again.

 

 

Ok here is a major one which I can't believe you don't remeber:

 

Kenneth McDuff, for instance, was convicted of the 1966 shooting deaths of two boys and the vicious rape-strangulation of their 16-year-old female companion. A Fort Worth jury ruled that McDuff should die in the electric chair, a sentence commuted to life in prison in 1972 after the U.S. Supreme Court struck down the death penalty as then imposed. In 1989, with Texas prisons overflowing and state officials under fire from the federal judiciary, McDuff was quietly turned loose on an unsuspecting citizenry.

 

Within days, a naked body of a woman turned up. Prostitute Sarafia Parker, 31, had been beaten, strangled and dumped in a field near Temple. McDuff's freedom in 1989 was interrupted briefly. Jailed after a minor racial incident, he slithered through the system and was out again in 1990.

 

In early 1991, McDuff enrolled at Texas State Technical College in Waco. Soon, Central Texas prostitutes began disappearing. One, Valencia Joshua, 22, was last seen alive Feb. 24, 1991. Her naked, decomposed body later was discovered in a shallow grave in woods behind the college. Another of the missing women, Regenia Moore, was last seen kicking and screaming in the cab of McDuff's pickup truck. During the Christmas holidays of 1991, Colleen Reed disappeared from an Austin car wash. Witnesses reported hearing a woman scream that night and seeing two men speeding away in a yellow or tan Thunderbird. Little more than two months later, on March 1, 1992, Melissa Northrup, pregnant with a third child, vanished from the Waco convenience store where she worked. McDuff's beige Thunderbird, broken down, was discovered a block from the store.

 

Fifty-seven days later, a fisherman found the young woman's nearly nude body floating in a gravel pit in Dallas County, 90 miles north of Waco. By then, McDuff was the target of a nationwide manhunt. Just days after Mrs. Northrup's funeral, McDuff was recognized on television's "America's Most Wanted'' and arrested May 4 in Kansas City.

 

In 1993, a Houston jury ordered him executed for the kidnap-slaying of 22-year-old Melissa Northrup, a Waco mother of two. In 1994, a Seguin jury assessed him the death penalty for the abduction-rape-murder of 28-year-old Colleen Reed, an Austin accountant. Pamplin's son Larry, the current sheriff of Falls County, appeared at McDuff's Houston trial for the 1992 abduction and murder of Melissa Northrup.

 

"Kenneth McDuff is absolutely the most vicious and savage individual I know,'' he told reporters. "He has absolutely no conscience, and I think he enjoys killing.''

If McDuff had been executed as scheduled, he said, "no telling how many lives would have been saved.''

At least nine, probably more, Texas authorities suspect.

 

His riegn of terror finally ended on November 17, 1998 when Kenneth McDuff was put to death by the state of Texas by Lethal Injection. May his victims rest in peace.

 

Then in 1986 in Mass:

 

Thus, a decade later, in June of 1986, there was nothing in the law to deny convicted murderer Horton what was supposed to be a routine 48-hour leave.

 

Predictably, Horton didn't play by the rules. He fled, eventually arriving in Maryland, where, in April of 1987, he had pistol-whipped and knifed Clifford Barnes, then bound and gagged him and twice raped his fiancee, Angela. When the story of the furlough became known, Horton's brutality created a public uproar.

 

The Maryland judge who subsequently sentenced Horton to two consecutive life terms refused to extradite him to Massachusetts. "I'm not prepared to take the chance that Mr. Horton might again be furloughed . . . This man should never draw a breath of free air again," said the judge.

 

The scandal heated to a rolling boil. In April of 1988, embattled Massachusetts legislators finally killed the 16-year-old program -- without further resistance from Dukakis. Thank God!

 

This is why for people who truly value public safety, there is no substitute for the best in its defense which is capital punishment. It not only forever bars the murderer from killing again, it also prevents parole boards and criminal rights activists from giving him the chance to repeat his crime.

 

 

Recently in Alabama a pair of murderers recieved parole and there first week out they killed and burnt down a guys house, Then murdered 4 in a robbery at a Days Inn on Thanksgiving. Now they face the penalty

 

That just a few that I can think of off my head. Thes people would still be alive had these thugs been executed.

[LowerCaseRepublican]

Ok here is a major one which I can't believe you don't remeber:

 

Kenneth McDuff, for instance, was convicted of the 1966 shooting deaths of two boys and the vicious rape-strangulation of their 16-year-old female companion. A Fort Worth jury ruled that McDuff should die in the electric chair, a sentence commuted to life in prison in 1972 after the U.S. Supreme Court struck down the death penalty as then imposed. In 1989, with Texas prisons overflowing and state officials under fire from the federal judiciary, McDuff was quietly turned loose on an unsuspecting citizenry.

 

Within days, a naked body of a woman turned up. Prostitute Sarafia Parker, 31, had been beaten, strangled and dumped in a field near Temple. McDuff's freedom in 1989 was interrupted briefly. Jailed after a minor racial incident, he slithered through the system and was out again in 1990.

 

In early 1991, McDuff enrolled at Texas State Technical College in Waco. Soon, Central Texas prostitutes began disappearing. One, Valencia Joshua, 22, was last seen alive Feb. 24, 1991. Her naked, decomposed body later was discovered in a shallow grave in woods behind the college. Another of the missing women, Regenia Moore, was last seen kicking and screaming in the cab of McDuff's pickup truck. During the Christmas holidays of 1991, Colleen Reed disappeared from an Austin car wash. Witnesses reported hearing a woman scream that night and seeing two men speeding away in a yellow or tan Thunderbird. Little more than two months later, on March 1, 1992, Melissa Northrup, pregnant with a third child, vanished from the Waco convenience store where she worked. McDuff's beige Thunderbird, broken down, was discovered a block from the store.

 

Fifty-seven days later, a fisherman found the young woman's nearly nude body floating in a gravel pit in Dallas County, 90 miles north of Waco. By then, McDuff was the target of a nationwide manhunt. Just days after Mrs. Northrup's funeral, McDuff was recognized on television's "America's Most Wanted'' and arrested May 4 in Kansas City.

 

In 1993, a Houston jury ordered him executed for the kidnap-slaying of 22-year-old Melissa Northrup, a Waco mother of two. In 1994, a Seguin jury assessed him the death penalty for the abduction-rape-murder of 28-year-old Colleen Reed, an Austin accountant. Pamplin's son Larry, the current sheriff of Falls County, appeared at McDuff's Houston trial for the 1992 abduction and murder of Melissa Northrup.

 

"Kenneth McDuff is absolutely the most vicious and savage individual I know,'' he told reporters. "He has absolutely no conscience, and I think he enjoys killing.''

If McDuff had been executed as scheduled, he said, "no telling how many lives would have been saved.''

At least nine, probably more, Texas authorities suspect.

 

His riegn of terror finally ended on November 17, 1998 when Kenneth McDuff was put to death by the state of Texas by Lethal Injection. May his victims rest in peace.

 

Then in 1986 in Mass:

 

Thus, a decade later, in June of 1986, there was nothing in the law to deny convicted murderer Horton what was supposed to be a routine 48-hour leave.

 

Predictably, Horton didn't play by the rules. He fled, eventually arriving in Maryland, where, in April of 1987, he had pistol-whipped and knifed Clifford Barnes, then bound and gagged him and twice raped his fiancee, Angela. When the story of the furlough became known, Horton's brutality created a public uproar.

 

The Maryland judge who subsequently sentenced Horton to two consecutive life terms refused to extradite him to Massachusetts. "I'm not prepared to take the chance that Mr. Horton might again be furloughed . . . This man should never draw a breath of free air again," said the judge.

 

The scandal heated to a rolling boil. In April of 1988, embattled Massachusetts legislators finally killed the 16-year-old program -- without further resistance from Dukakis. Thank God!

 

This is why for people who truly value public safety, there is no substitute for the best in its defense which is capital punishment. It not only forever bars the murderer from killing again, it also prevents parole boards and criminal rights activists from giving him the chance to repeat his crime.

Recently in Alabama a pair of murderers recieved parole and there first week out they killed and burnt down a guys house, Then murdered 4 in a robbery at a Days Inn on Thanksgiving. Now they face the penalty

 

That just a few that I can think of off my head. Thes people would still be alive had these thugs been executed.

 

They'd also be alive if the feds didn't have a hard-on for putting non-violent possession "criminals" in prison with mandatory minimum sentences. One of the problems with "The War on Drugs" is that non-violent possession offenders get long term sentences which means that actual violent criminals get paroled because we can't have people smoking joints in America

 

You're creating a false dichotomy -- that the people would be alive if only the offenders were executed. There's more choices to be made than either "Release or execute." There's the adequate funding and ending the psychotic drug war statutes that allow violent offenders to be released early because there is no room in the over-crowded prisons.

 

And I'm also interested in your take on the Darrow statement I put in this thread from a capital case he was a lawyer for (two older boys kidnapped and killed a 14 year old): "What is [the State's Attorney's] idea of justice? He says to this court...'Give them the same mercy that they gave to Bobby Franks.' Is that the law? Is that justice? Is this what a court should do? Is this what a State's Attorney should do? If the state in which I live is not kinder, more human, more considerate, more intelligent than the mad act of these two boys, I am sorry that I have lived so long."

[Queen Prawn]

Not to get into the argument of for or against the death penalty, but what about Bundy? He escaped to kill again.

[minors]

Also John Wayne Gacy which the Stupid State of Iowa let go in the 60's. Fact is murderers get out and they will kill again no one can deny it.

[LowerCaseRepublican]

Also John Wayne Gacy which the Stupid State of Iowa let go in the 60's. Fact is murderers get out and they will kill again no one can deny it.

I'd love to have a look in the crystal ball of you knowing that for every criminal in the future.

 

You're creating a false dichotomy -- that the people would be alive if only the offenders were executed. There's more choices to be made than either "Release or execute." There's the adequate funding and ending the psychotic drug war statutes that allow violent offenders to be released early because there is no room in the over-crowded prisons.

 

And I'm also interested in your take on the Darrow statement I put in this thread from a capital case he was a lawyer for (two older boys kidnapped and killed a 14 year old): "What is [the State's Attorney's] idea of justice? He says to this court...'Give them the same mercy that they gave to Bobby Franks.' Is that the law? Is that justice? Is this what a court should do? Is this what a State's Attorney should do? If the state in which I live is not kinder, more human, more considerate, more intelligent than the mad act of these two boys, I am sorry that I have lived so long."

[minors]

I'd love to have a look in the crystal ball of you knowing that for every criminal in the future.

 

 

These guys already committed murder. Are you one of these people who think prisoners can be rehabilitated?