clujer420 Posted August 3, 2003 Share Posted August 3, 2003 I don't like reading the comments from my fellow posters after we lose (especially when it's 10-0 ), so I apologize in advance since I'm sure I will say many things that have already been said. That said, last night sounded just brutal. I had to work (as usual), but I got regular updates during the Anaheim/Toronto game, and it kept getting worse and worse. Our offense was bound to have a bad game, as was our pitching, but unfortunately it all happened at once. 3 hits? 10 runs allowed? That is simply unacceptable -- even with your #5 starting. Frank and Magglio seem to have really cooled off over the past 3 games (a combined 0 for their last 21 ), but thankfully we're 2-1 in those games. Carlos Lee is really on fire, as he is 34 for 84 since the ASB, which comes out to a sizzling .405. Along with that average, he's hit 10 HR and driven in 26 runs. Danny Wright, IMO, should never start a game for the Sox again until we're either completely out of it or so far up that he can't harm us. He's started 12 games this year, and has 0 wins. 0. That, any way you slice it, is horrid. His ERA is equally as horrid, at 6.18. If the talks of going to a 4 man rotation were serious (I read that in an article a couple of days ago), I think now is the time to do it. Either that, or pick up some scrub off waivers. If not, call up someone that can get guys out -- Cotts? We were going to lose big eventually. We all knew that. The key now is the same as it was after our 8-game winning streak ended against Tampa Bay -- how we respond to it. We've got 1 more game on this road trip, and we're already assured of going back to Chicago with at least a 4-2 record. I think most of us would have taken that. However, if we expect to contend for the division (and in the playoffs if we make it that far), games like the one Sunday are crucial. We've got our hottest pitcher going for us in Mark Buehrle, who has an ERA of 2.88 over his last 9 starts (all Sox victories). And we're facing Gil Meche, who has an ERA of 6.59 over his last 5 starts. It looks good on paper, but we'll see how it goes. I read that Frank will not play (not only is he mired in a slump, but JM said he wants him to get hit #2000 at home, so Daubach will likely be the DH), and Robbie Alomar will also not be starting (he told JM he doesn't like playing day games after playing at night the day before). So look for Tony G (or possibly Willie Harris) to also be in the lineup. Big game Sunday -- let's go get em Sox! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wsc425 Posted August 3, 2003 Share Posted August 3, 2003 It is unacceptable. Surely you know that this is a west coast team. Once we stop facing the west coasters we can get back. Hopefully we crush those b****less Angels after we finish off the KC Royals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Fainter Posted August 3, 2003 Share Posted August 3, 2003 No other team has a fifth starter that wins all the time. That's why they call them fifth starters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clujer420 Posted August 3, 2003 Author Share Posted August 3, 2003 No other team has a fifth starter that wins all the time. That's why they call them fifth starters. I don't expect wins all the time out of anybody -- and certainly not a 5th starter. But to have 0 wins in 12 starts is not OK. Show me another team that has a starter who has started 12 games and has 0 wins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clujer420 Posted August 3, 2003 Author Share Posted August 3, 2003 Once we stop facing the west coasters we can get back. We've gotta beat them eventually -- why not start now? Our inabilities against Seattle cost us the season in 2000, and I don't want the same fate for 2003. Plus, we're the hottest team in baseball right now. If we can't take a series against them now, we may never do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upnorthsox Posted August 3, 2003 Share Posted August 3, 2003 Well, If anything good came out of last night it's that KW now knows he needs to keep pursuing a 5th starter, that Wright is not the answer. My guess is most guys will have cleared waivers(who are going to that is) by Monday or Tuesday so expect something, if it's going to happen, by the end of the week. Also, Ginter once again has affirmed my dislike in him. That's why I wanted Levine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clujer420 Posted August 3, 2003 Author Share Posted August 3, 2003 Well, If anything good came out of last night it's that KW now knows he needs to keep pursuing a 5th starter, that Wright is not the answer. My guess is most guys will have cleared waivers(who are going to that is) by Monday or Tuesday so expect something, if it's going to happen, by the end of the week. Also, Ginter once again has affirmed my dislike in him. That's why I wanted Levine. I think our #5 only has like 4 or 5 more starts scheduled for the rest of the year. In reality, the lack of a #5 isn't going to make or break us. The biggest effect of not having a good #5 is that it can wear out your bullpen if he gets rocked early. Thankfully, we didn't have to use any of our main guys (except for Wunsch), and with Buehrle on the hill today, we shouldn't need much 'pen help anyway. Maybe the Sox can try Wright in the pen, send Ginter back down, and call up a guy from AAA to fill the #5 spot. See how it goes for 2-3 weeks, then decide what we want to do before the August 31 "playoff roster" deadline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxplosion Posted August 3, 2003 Share Posted August 3, 2003 I think Frank needs a day off. Hes obviously slumping and I do believe he hits better at home. A day off will do him well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxplosion Posted August 3, 2003 Share Posted August 3, 2003 Well, If anything good came out of last night it's that KW now knows he needs to keep pursuing a 5th starter, that Wright is not the answer. My guess is most guys will have cleared waivers(who are going to that is) by Monday or Tuesday so expect something, if it's going to happen, by the end of the week. Also, Ginter once again has affirmed my dislike in him. That's why I wanted Levine. I think our #5 only has like 4 or 5 more starts scheduled for the rest of the year. In reality, the lack of a #5 isn't going to make or break us. The biggest effect of not having a good #5 is that it can wear out your bullpen if he gets rocked early. Thankfully, we didn't have to use any of our main guys (except for Wunsch), and with Buehrle on the hill today, we shouldn't need much 'pen help anyway. Maybe the Sox can try Wright in the pen, send Ginter back down, and call up a guy from AAA to fill the #5 spot. See how it goes for 2-3 weeks, then decide what we want to do before the August 31 "playoff roster" deadline. Just get him outta here. Dont waste time seeing him in the pen. Hes a crappy pitcher and hes finished. I never want to see him pitch again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clujer420 Posted August 3, 2003 Author Share Posted August 3, 2003 Just get him outta here. Dont waste time seeing him in the pen. Hes a crappy pitcher and hes finished. I never want to see him pitch again. He's got too much talent to just give up on him. He could turn out to be like Eric Gagne. How would you like it if we released him, and a team like Minnesota or KC picked him up and he turned into a dominant closer? I'd want to puke if we did that without giving him a chance first. He's got too good of an arm to toss him out like garbage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upnorthsox Posted August 3, 2003 Share Posted August 3, 2003 Well, If anything good came out of last night it's that KW now knows he needs to keep pursuing a 5th starter, that Wright is not the answer. My guess is most guys will have cleared waivers(who are going to that is) by Monday or Tuesday so expect something, if it's going to happen, by the end of the week. Also, Ginter once again has affirmed my dislike in him. That's why I wanted Levine. I think our #5 only has like 4 or 5 more starts scheduled for the rest of the year. In reality, the lack of a #5 isn't going to make or break us. The biggest effect of not having a good #5 is that it can wear out your bullpen if he gets rocked early. Thankfully, we didn't have to use any of our main guys (except for Wunsch), and with Buehrle on the hill today, we shouldn't need much 'pen help anyway. Maybe the Sox can try Wright in the pen, send Ginter back down, and call up a guy from AAA to fill the #5 spot. See how it goes for 2-3 weeks, then decide what we want to do before the August 31 "playoff roster" deadline. We had this debate before and it was 8 starts including last night, and not only can't we afford 7 more losses but(like you said) it overtaxes the BP and(like last night) it ends win streaks or continues losing streaks. Don't underestimate that, and the effect it has on the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Fainter Posted August 3, 2003 Share Posted August 3, 2003 JM is getting very consistent in how he handles Kelly Wunsch. In our previous loss, to Tampa about a week ago, we had a key part game where Aubrey Huff, a good lefty, comes up with 2 out and men on base, and he left White in to give up the key hit of the game. 5th inning as I recall. Last night de ja vous all over again. In both the 6th and 7th innings, Olerud, a good lefty, comes up with men on base against right handers (Wright and Ginter), and both times hit home runs. Now, I realize that the Seattle game was not win-able, but still, the situation called for a left handed pitcher. Jerry will not, under any circumstances, bring in Wunsch until very late in the game. Which is what he did yesterday, letting Wunsch pitch the 8th when the score was 10-0. Why can't we bring Wunsch into the game in the middle innings if the situation calls for getting a tough lefty out while the game is not only on the line but winnable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clujer420 Posted August 3, 2003 Author Share Posted August 3, 2003 Why can't we bring Wunsch into the game in the middle innings if the situation calls for getting a tough lefty out while the game is not only on the line but winnable? He's got a 0.96 ERA -- you DO NOT want him in when the game's on the line. Not to mention, the opposition is hitting a whopping .102 against him. And you want to know why JM doesn't use him in crucial situations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Fainter Posted August 3, 2003 Share Posted August 3, 2003 Clujer, pls enlighten me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clujer420 Posted August 3, 2003 Author Share Posted August 3, 2003 Clujer, pls enlighten me. As to why JM doesn't use him in crucial situations early? I have no friggin clue. Seems elementary to me that he would use Wunsch whenever the situation called for it -- not just late in the game. But, I'm not JM, so I don't know what his reasoning is (if any). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Critic Posted August 3, 2003 Share Posted August 3, 2003 I think Frank needs a day off. Hes obviously slumping and I do believe he hits better at home. A day off will do him well... While I think a day off may do Frank some good, as it would any player on occasion, I really think JM needs to put Frank at first a couple times a week. Why Sox management refuses to acknowledge the man's history of hitting better when playing 1B is beyond me. There's nothing wrong with splitting time at first between PK and Frank. It would give each of them some time to rest ( playing "half the game" when DHing ) while still keeping both involved defensively. If it's a choice of involving Frank Thomas or Brian Daubach, please forgive me if I'm more concerned with keeping Thomas interested, involved and productive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted August 3, 2003 Share Posted August 3, 2003 The firt time I have ever seen anything from the Sox actually saying that the organization is now talking about Wright being better suited for the bullpen was today. Probably they have been discussing the issue obviously but to actually hear someone quoted is interesting. Maybe they will now see how he works out of the pen. Wright says he is willing to do it. We will need a fifth starter and if not Wright, who? A trade or another call up? Porzio is not the answer and maybe not Josh Stewart either. I mentioned in another post my surprise that Manuel let Wright and Ginter, both righties, pitch to Olerud. I thought Wunsch would have been brought in when Danny started to fade. I was sure that Giner was going to be taken out with the sacks full and Olerud at bat, but NOOOOOO... We have three lefties in the pen, why not use them when the situation demands it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted August 3, 2003 Share Posted August 3, 2003 While I think a day off may do Frank some good, as it would any player on occasion, I really think JM needs to put Frank at first a couple times a week. Why Sox management refuses to acknowledge the man's history of hitting better when playing 1B is beyond me. There's nothing wrong with splitting time at first between PK and Frank. It would give each of them some time to rest ( playing "half the game" when DHing ) while still keeping both involved defensively. If it's a choice of involving Frank Thomas or Brian Daubach, please forgive me if I'm more concerned with keeping Thomas interested, involved and productive. He does need the day off to clear his head, but I agree that he and PK could be switched around in their roles from time to time. Konerko is the better fielder, but Frank works hard at it too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 3, 2003 Share Posted August 3, 2003 I don't expect wins all the time out of anybody -- and certainly not a 5th starter. But to have 0 wins in 12 starts is not OK. Show me another team that has a starter who has started 12 games and has 0 wins. The team has actually won 6 games in 12 starts of Danny's. Just Danny hasn't been around long enough to get those wins. So he was at least keeping us in most games, up until his last few starts anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxplosion Posted August 3, 2003 Share Posted August 3, 2003 Agreed. Frank needs to play first from time to time. His stats are obviously better there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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