FT35

Oh you know it. The whole reason why he's not signed yet is because he was waiting for Machado to go first so he could go over that with Bryce. I actually think he got lucky that Manny reached the $300M mark. It was looking like $260M-280M range is where it would top out there for a while. Now he can start the bidding at $300M.

I think he'll be in a lineup on opening day...someone will pay the ransom. Might be a little lower than Boras expects but I think a deal will be done without Harper missing any game action. He might miss some spring games, but I bet a player like Harper will want to get some spring time in to "get right" before the season starts.

He's been very good when dealing with the team's assets. (Biggest hiccup was moving Tatis for Shields, but what many don't remember is that the team was off to a VERY strong start and felt it was unsustainable without another SP. He made a deal--which at the time looked like a buy-low on Shields who was some Coup time away from being a strong contributor, it just didn't work out). But he's made some nice trades and more importantly, negotiated several team-friendly contracts that have added additional value to those players' trade return. His shortcomings revolve around the budget restrictions he's been given to work with. In other words, Jerry. It's Jerry who I imagine is a GREAT person to work for but with his history on spending and activist stance on many Free Agent-related issues, it's a tough roadblock for Hahn. For Hahn and Kenny Williams' sake, they both did their job of convincing Jerry to blow away his limit for Machado--which I believe was right at that $250M guaranteed. Both he and Kenny stated that in their comments about "Jerry stepping up." Bottom line is...Rick Hahn has had to navigate a franchise with one of the lowest attendance records in MLB, and a tight-wad owner. In many cases, he (and Kenny) have been forced to "get creative" on ways to build the on-field MLB product and it often shows. In that regard, you have to consider his ability to even convince Jerry to scrap/rebuild as a major win as well--breaking the broken pattern of plug and play moves. NOW...I think the Machado situation is a MAJOR blow to the organization--not as much from a standpoint of us not winning the bid, but for what type of thinking has taken place afterwards. I see red flags looking into some of the comments Hahn has made since the Machado signing..."the money will be spent," "there are still players we want to sign." All those comments point to the OLD, BROKEN way of fielding a team. You MISS on your 2-year plan FA target, and automatically default to the plug and play cycle of "who's left available" on the scrap heap pile and let's just get them. All this while we have already filled 2 roster positions with plug and play type vets Alonso and Jay. I guess I'd like to hear more along the lines of "we had an opportunity to speed up the rebuild, it didn't happen, so we are going to switch gears and stick with our original timeline and continue to plan accordingly." I'd like to see AT LEAST Alonso on the move soon, (did you all see the comment by Alex Cora when he referenced the Sox signing Alonso and Jay as something that "wasn't going to work to get Machado, but at least Jay was a good player?!?" Yikes!) I think it's important to move him for 2 reasons: 1. he doesn't really belong on this team and we could use his roster spot, and 2. he reminds the world of our failure. I'd also like to see them back to flip mode on Colome and Herrera. I guess how he gets through the recent failure will help to define Hahn for me. Can he leverage it? Can he use it to motivate? Can he overachieve because of it?

Well said. I think the mistake was not upping the offer unless they had to--falling back too much on JD Martinez's situation to apply to all FA's in his position. When they were thinking "let's not bid against ourselves" they failed to see the logic in the reality of the situation being: Their offer was not good enough for Machado to accept. They should not have thought that Machado would come around to taking a lower offer because JD Martinez did. Forget ALL the rumors of other teams getting involved...at that time they realized..."hmmm...our offer has been out there for a while and he's still not accepted it," they should have "bid against themselves" NOT because they wanted to pay more than they needed to, but simply because their current bid was not good enough to close the deal and something better was. The lack of acceptance on Machado's part should have prompted further movement from the Sox and not their "patient" dependency on a philosophical conclusion drawn from JD Martinez's choice last year.

Sign Harper to 10/375 and trade him to SD for Machado and Tatis.

Exactly. I mean look at the bright side...at least we know now that if Kenny is still around, we all know who our 2029 3rd baseman will be! Fresh off his 10-year sentence in SD at the ripe age of 36!

I'm devastated just like everyone else. This one hurt more than any other in the past. But you have to immediately go in to what's next mode. You can't lose any more time with Manny Machado than what's already gone. It's infuriating. It's bitter. I can't even read the ESPN article that has his face on it. Makes me sick. But you can't lament or you will lose even more. And everything you do from this point forward should be fueled by this moment. Manny and Bryce were always MUST signs given the state of our battered franchise. But neither are proven winners...in fact...Machado never delivered a team to the next level. Bryce was a part of some great Nationals teams, but never delivered them to a title. Maybe our focus turns to our rotation. Sale/MadBum...maybe it turns to Arenado. But now the front office knows not to waste time on these types of players if they think they can get them cheap. That will always be the most difficult part of this whole joke. They honestly believed they would get Machado for cheap. It's a shame...they had him--all they needed to do is pay for him. But we've already lost 3 months on this. Time to just purge the Manny Machado saga and save ourselves from more pain thinking about it.

This is the kind of gut punch that can take an organization in 1 of 2 different directions. It's bad enough to quit and it's bad enough to ignite.

See...I disagree. The only difference between now and last week is...they guys started to kick the ball around on the field. The season technically started for baseball activity and that's what's taking place. The teams in the race for Harper/Machado are still in the race because they haven't signed, but SD and Philly are rolling their guys out on to a field now too because it's time to do that...they aren't punting on the FA signings because it's February 18th and it's time to roll with who you've got. I don't think what takes place right now in AZ has anything to do with what our roster composition will be for Opening Day. The guys we have on our roster right now are getting off the buses and shaking off rust, that's about it...if anything...the more the decision makers look around at these guys now, it's becoming more obvious to them how much we need a true 3rd baseman/infield solution.

My only thought would be Davidson's gone--we currently don't have a 3rd basemen--or at least we're down to Yolmer who I think they are looking at him as more of a super util. Jake Berger is, well, on the mend for a while and we do have a good 2B who is working his way up. Moncada has played 3rd before. So he's being considered as a more permanent player there as long as we don't have Machado.

Exactly. They are preparing as though they don't have him because they don't have him! If they lose out on signing Manny...that is awful. But they can't really afford to lose Manny AND their Spring Training.

I don't know...I thought this maybe, but I think they are doing it because now is the time to do stuff like that. Spring Training. They understand they are putting their best foot forward and if it doesn't work out, they know they gave it everything. But they will ultimately have a baseball team this year no matter what, so until Manny actually signs with them, they need to start making preparations for that 2019 baseball team.

Excellent point here. Great conclusion.

I mean I'm not trying to convince you to stay or anything...just working in some logic. First off...if winning was easy, everyone would do it. What are the right moves to make? What is evidence of owners being cheap over prudent? In 2005 Paul Konerko was our highest paid player...at $8.75 million. Yes...different times...but that was good for 30th highest...in the AL. Would you have rather had someone else in the top 29 instead? He would have been the 12th highest paid Yankee that year. Did we mess up by not spending more that year? You said it's not about winning...so does the 2005 championship go out the window because they didn't spend the right amount? Would you have rather been a Yankee fan that year because they did things right? We have the same number of championships as the Yankees in the last 15 years, is there's worth more because they run a better organization? You mentioned Rays, Padres, or Oakland...they run things right???? Why? Because the satisfaction of buying low/selling high on players is better than winning a title? Not trying to live in the past, but who knows about these things...it all comes down to betting on human beings. That's as fluid of a bet as it comes. I suppose you can roll the same set of dice with a different team if you think the random outcome aligns better with your personal set of decisions on how you think it should be run.

If we end up getting Machado...then Lozano owes Preller a HUGE favor...

I want Machado as much as anyone. But people, this is starting to beg the question... Who is signing who, here? If signing him means absolutely crippling your organization with all the opt outs being the player’s, no team opt outs till much later—and drastically overpaying his value by a hundred million dollars...do you still want that just to say you have a superstar? Baltimore was awful with him because there was no team around him. That might be the case here if our prospects fizzle and all the risk of signing him falls on the team. And if our FO decides NOT to cripple itself and go overboard with risk to win this, do you really think they’ll be fired for doing what’s right and what could mean more success for the future of the team long-term?! Fired for doing what we’d do or what we would want them to do? Sign him if it makes sense but don’t turn us into the Marlins in 3 years because you have to please a starving fan base that knows less than we’d like to believe. A Yogi Berra-esque thought: Don’t be out-bid, but to some extent, it’s OK to be drastically out-risked.

Yes! I wonder if he realizes he could have posted that tweet in December and it would still apply? All his stuff is very “safe” and obvious.

Agree and agree. We might have to win before top FAs sign here again. It’s all the risk of a rebuild. I’m sure we also burned a few bridges with players who we signed to long-term/team-friendly deals “to be a part of something special here in Chicago for a long time” only to turn around and leverage the value of those deals to get more in trades (Sale, Eaton, Quintana). Nothing illegal or dirty about that, but that sorta practice resonates with players. Still think though, we have the talent and resources to put together a more attractive future for a top FA. Just might have to win first.

It would suck...but there are a lot of other reasons to stick with this team. Plus, if we don’t get Machado/Harper, we’ll still have all the cash we set aside to land 1 or both. Lots of talent, lots of options still. Just a different path.

I think the other factor is that Bryce Harper is simply not a $350M+ baseball player. He might bring that value to a franchise, but a decent size portion of that value is his face. So you think, what teams would pay the premium for his face over his numbers? You'd think the Sox would need a face as much as the numbers at this point in their position. But Philly needs his numbers more than his face, so the offers are coming up short because Harper COULD be worth a TON more to a team who needs his...wait for it..."face value."

I think it's people trying to figure out what the delay is. It's certainly not logical that we would sign both...but it's almost down to the "OK something NOT logical is the only explanation." There's really no reason why these guys shouldn't be signed by teams now. It's either a DRASTIC value discrepancy (likely) or someone is trying to pull off the improbable and negotiate both--and has both agents on board to hold out till they know if it can be done.

Honestly think Moose would be a great fit in SD. He's got that Ken Camaniti feel plus they would be assembling half the Royals WS infield.

But man he started off great--lots of MLBTV guys agreeing he was the best player on the field for them...all kinds of ultra positive accolades. I'd like to think he just lost all confidence at the first sign of struggle, but then the truth hit me...the decline corresponded perfectly with the day I added him in a competitive fantasy league. He's got an Ian Kinsler skill set but a long way to go.

PLUS...you can not convince me that the "White Sox way" doesn't involve some sort of social media piece...it's too much of how they work. See...Nicky be DEL-MINE-ICO. Come on...it's too much a part of the fabric of how they operate now.

BINGO! All someone needs to do to divert us from what's actually taking place by, oh, I don't know...posting a bunch of random junk like videos of questionable hats, baby shoes, baseball gloves...let the masses consume the "stupid" diversions! It's classic "WATCH THE BIRDY!"