LowerCaseRepublican Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 Seeing how popular the Israel/Palestine thread was, I decided to start this one to see the consensus of who people here think about the problems in Colombia, especially the civil war raging there. Let me preface that all organizations named are deemed as "terrorist organizations" by the US State Department. [The AUC was briefly taken off the list after it declared a cease-fire but was added back on in Dec. 2002 when it started attacks again] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 LOL. I thought you were going to be talking about the Shuttle program Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 LOL. I thought you were going to be talking about the Shuttle program Me too!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxy Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 Let me preface that all organizations named are deemed as "terrorist organizations" by the US State Department. [The AUC was briefly taken off the list after it declared a cease-fire but was added back on in Dec. 2002 when it started attacks again] Apu, I don't know much about this, can you tell me: How many of them got trained at the SOA? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 My vote goes to "who the hell cares". We should use napalm to destroy the cocaine fields and cluster bombs to destroy the homes of known drug lords. We also need to start shooting down known drug flights and sinking boats carrying illicit drugs. Back home we need to impose the death penalty on anyone convicted of selling or trafficking drugs and impose manditory treatment on drug users. Basically it would be like any military operation. Illegal Drugs are the enemy. First you destroy command and control (drug lords) cut off supply lines ( destroy coca fields and means of transportation ) then start killing off the troops in the field ( poison peddling common scum on the streets ) That would be a real war on drugs and would put the world on notice that we're not f***ing around anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LowerCaseRepublican Posted January 6, 2004 Author Share Posted January 6, 2004 Apu, I don't know much about this, can you tell me: How many of them got trained at the SOA? There are no exact numbers for how many of the paramilitaries get trained at the SOA. It's widely known that Colombia is the #1 recipient of training at the SOA [now known as WHISC: Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation located in Ft. Benning, GA] However, it is known that members of paramilitary organizations that have been cited for certain human rights abuses and attacks on civilians have been trained by the SOA. According to a lawsuit filed in Florida by the United Steelworkers and International Labor Rights Fund on behalf of Colombian unionists claims there is a connection between paramilitaries like the AUC and the SOA, saying that trainees were encouraged to torture and murder those wh do "union organizing and recruiting", pass out "propaganda in favor of workers" and "sympathize with demonstrations and strikes". This was made public when the Pentagon was forced to reveal the contents of training manuals used at the SOA. At the same time, 2 members of the Irish Republican Army were arrested in Colombia training FARC rebels in urban bombing techniques. It is the only known connection with the FARC/ELN receiving training from any outside sources. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxy Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 We should use napalm to destroy the cocaine fields and cluster bombs to destroy the homes of known drug lords. We also need to start shooting down known drug flights and sinking boats carrying illicit drugs. Back home we need to impose the death penalty on anyone convicted of selling or trafficking drugs and impose manditory treatment on drug users. I disagree Nuke, you have to destroy the DEMAND for the drugs first. Sure the people would detox. But really, I don't know that would stop anything. Certainly destroying and stopping the drug from coming in would stop the physical dependence but it wouldn't stop the ADDICTION (defined as the combination of the psychological AND physical dependence on the drug). That explains why people relapse 10, 20 years after quitting. Drug usage changes how the brain actually functions--and simply destroying the crop of drugs won't change the brain back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxy Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 There are no exact numbers for how many of the paramilitaries get trained at the SOA. It's widely known that Colombia is the #1 recipient of training at the SOA [now known as WHISC: Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation located in Ft. Benning, GA] However, it is known that members of paramilitary organizations that have been cited for certain human rights abuses and attacks on civilians have been trained by the SOA. According to a lawsuit filed in Florida by the United Steelworkers and International Labor Rights Fund on behalf of Colombian unionists claims there is a connection between paramilitaries like the AUC and the SOA, saying that trainees were encouraged to torture and murder those wh do "union organizing and recruiting", pass out "propaganda in favor of workers" and "sympathize with demonstrations and strikes". This was made public when the Pentagon was forced to reveal the contents of training manuals used at the SOA. At the same time, 2 members of the Irish Republican Army were arrested in Colombia training FARC rebels in urban bombing techniques. It is the only known connection with the FARC/ELN receiving training from any outside sources. Well, I think you'll need more options for your poll then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 I disagree Nuke, you have to destroy the DEMAND for the drugs first. Sure the people would detox. But really, I don't know that would stop anything. Certainly destroying and stopping the drug from coming in would stop the physical dependence but it wouldn't stop the ADDICTION (defined as the combination of the psychological AND physical dependence on the drug). That explains why people relapse 10, 20 years after quitting. Drug usage changes how the brain actually functions--and simply destroying the crop of drugs won't change the brain back. That's why you put these people in rehab or some other form of treatment. It'd be kind of expensive but it would be better in the long run when we get some form of production out of them. As long as you have poison peddling scum roaming the streets with an unlimited supply of their product its easy to see how people relapse and how new users get hooked. That's why the supply and distribution system have to be eliminated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxy Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 That's why you put these people in rehab or some other form of treatment. It'd be kind of expensive but it would be better in the long run when we get some form of production out of them. Even people that DO receive rehabilitation relapse, Nuke, that's the problem. A literature review done by Hunt, Barnett, and Branch showed that 70% (yes over 2 out of 3 people!!!!) return to their primary drug of choice in three months time. The problem is that after rehab people return to the settings where they had originally done the drugs. They see the cues and settings and people that they used to do drugs with/in/near. We know now that even these clues can release small portions of the Neurotransmitters involved in the drug usage and can simulate a feeling of the high. So, the person starts to feel the cravings--even a person's home, room, friends can cue them to make them feel like they need the drugs. That's the difficulty in rehabing people. So, destroying the drugs isn't the answer. There is NO simple answer to this problem except to just not start.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlaSoxxJim Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 Back home we need to impose the death penalty on anyone convicted of selling or trafficking drugs and impose manditory treatment on drug users.... But Rush's housekeeper seems like a genuinely decent person, aside from the drug-peddling I mean. Oh well, if it fixes the problem, string her up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 That's the difficulty in rehabing people. So, destroying the drugs isn't the answer. There is NO simple answer to this problem except to just not start.... So if you eliminate the supply and the sellers then people cant start in the first place can they? No more new addicts. Then the only problem is treating those who are already hooked. They dont make a "nicotene patch" for heroin and cocaine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxy Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 So if you eliminate the supply and the sellers then people cant start in the first place can they? No more new addicts. Then the only problem is treating those who are already hooked. They dont make a "nicotene patch" for heroin and cocaine. So, what's your answer to synthetic drugs like X, and Meth? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 So, what's your answer to synthetic drugs like X, and Meth? See above Except the Air Force is probably too blunt an instrument for such a precision problem. Might I suggest SWAT style raids on Meth Labs and the such? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlaSoxxJim Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 And from today's news, let's fry the 11-year old too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 And from today's news, let's fry the 11-year old too. No, fry his parents since they are s***bags. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxy Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 I mean, how can you stop people from creating it and dealing it? Same for LSD? They are relatively easy to make? At a school near me, kids were going in and making it after Chem class? That is hard to find and catch...I don't understand how we can eliminate that so cleanly and effectively. I am all for getting rid of drugs--I know socially, economically, and biologically how horrible they are--but I do not understand how enforceable drug policies are. These drugs are too easy to make and too easy to sell. Anyone with a kitchen can make a lot of this stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlaSoxxJim Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 No, fry his parents since they are s***bags. But the kid was the one dealing on teh streets... or, does that mean the issues may not be as burn 'em/kill 'em black-and-white as your statements suggest? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxy Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 And is alcohol included in your war? And if not--why isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 Apu, I don't know much about this, can you tell me: How many of them got trained at the SOA? will you marry me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxy Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 will you marry me? That depends, what denomination are you ordained in? And 2.) Do you like Buddhists? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 And from today's news, let's fry the 11-year old too. Sorry in advance for the hi-jack.. But this reminds me.. I love that damn CSI: Miami show!! Not as good as the Vegas one.. but it's close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 And is alcohol included in your war? And if not--why isn't it? I already had this debate with APU the other day I dont feel like rehashing it. Short answer is no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlaSoxxJim Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 This reminds me.. I love that damn CSI: Miami show!! Not as good as the Vegas one.. but it's close. It is good. And so far the network has abstained from showing David Caruso's ugly naked arse, which was what scared me away from that cop show he used to be on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxy Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 I already had this debate with APU the other day I dont feel like rehashing it. Short answer is no. No worries--I won't get into neurochem with you then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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