LDF

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 23, 2016 -> 11:40 PM) Very true. I am extremely disappointed the Sox couldn't or wouldn't go to this level. I still think they have another move they will make, but if they don't, and Avi fails, they deserve all the grief they are going to get. i am being prissy here, but that does not help when the chance to do something is gone. the window of opportunity is missed, again.

QUOTE (AustinIllini @ Feb 23, 2016 -> 11:35 PM) Because of profit sharing, no it has not. The MLB isn't like the Premier League where a fanbase can walk out causing an ownership team to apologize. i will be brutally honest with you, i never thought of that nor knew of that. that just reinforce my opinion of how much the fans not attending the games has little to do with the ability of the owners to walk with a profit. it is all about the money, not the game as he once said when he first bought the team.

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Feb 23, 2016 -> 09:10 PM) MLB Network Harold Reynolds thinks the Rollins signing was solid for the Sox. He thinks Rollins can still play and thinks he will be the starting SS for the Sox come opening day. He brought up a good point about Rollins hitting 8th on a NL club. Hitting in front of the pitcher mean you get garbage to hit. Play in the AL with the DH and it will help him rebound from a lackluster NL year. I also believe that Rollings is there to mentor Tim Anderson and probably Saladino as well. as i said yesterday, that signing shocked me, but i am not against it. i would rather have gotten an of'er. but that aside, i like that if Rollins does really well in st and makes the team, this will force anderson on playing in the minors, no matter how great he does in st. i just had this idea of st and anderson hitting the crap of the ball and forcing the org hand to bring him up. this is a solid move.

QUOTE (shakes @ Feb 23, 2016 -> 07:14 PM) Why do you keep insisting the Sox should sell the team if funds are tight? Their projected opening day payroll is roughly $120 million. That's higher than 20 teams opening payrolls in 2015. Should teams like the Cubs, Mariners, Astros, Royals and Orioles have to sell their teams last year? Because their payrolls a year ago were less than the Sox will be this year. And I'm not sure you understand the Tilting at Windmills idiom. ~~~~ yeah right why are you including other teams, when they didn't have to go thru what the sox have done to improve the team in a short time???? that has nothing to do with anything i am talking about, bad attempt and wrong way of thinking. i say sell the team if the team is too much for the owners to do what is needed to make this work. obvious they been having that recurring problem for yrs, to only show 1 WS in all that time, esp with the talent of the team of the 90's. who knows, maybe it is sooo bad they are cutting coupons to help make ends meet. they should sell and enjoy the built in equality .....

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 23, 2016 -> 07:04 PM) The less the upgrade, the less JR, you, or me would be willing to pay. It doesn't make one cheap. It doesn't mean the money is not there. You don't spend to spend. There is no question the Sox need to upgrade the OF in my mind. Cespedes would have been nice. Fowler would be nice. Jackson would be nice. It has to make sense. Locking yourself into a mistake causes problems down the road. excellent post, i really like it. ref to bold one, you are correct in what you are leading up, while it doesn't make one cheap, then by default it make how he thinks and his priority with ref to winning a WS ref to bold two, i 100% agree. mistakes, howver just b/c one make a mistakes, that should not stop them from making any other improvement, based on the idea of afraid of making mistakes. now making bad choices is another subject.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 23, 2016 -> 07:50 PM) Sox fans have been doing that for years. good and has it worked????

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 23, 2016 -> 07:43 PM) I agree with the posters who think the Sox were making offers to the big 3 guys. But the question is how much would it have really cost the White Sox to sign them? It's not like ebay where another $1 would have been enough. And at what point does the price become too much? We will see what they do about an OF. Obviously they had Rollins in the wings as the alternative to Desmond. He most likely will not be as good as Desmond, cost wise, I could see where it makes sense. As far as the OF goes, we will see. I think 2/$25 million for Fowler is a gamble they should take. Maybe they have an alternative that comes to light in a bit where you could see why they wouldn't do that. It's like shopping on Stubhub. Your available funds are based on the quality available seats. Where you might be willing to spend $100 on certain seats, you won't spend $25 on others. in retrospect, you are changing your tune, and i like that, thinking on the fly. but again, it goes back to the premise of my discussions, they have the money and even you admitted so, by the example of shopping. trying to build a team on a penny budget.

i would also like to add, it is really not the place of the fans to tell the owners how to use their money, but it is the place of the fans to relay to the owners of the fans displeasure of how the team is being run, and the only way to get their attention is thru not buying tickets. affect them where it hurts, money.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 23, 2016 -> 06:33 PM) Funds must be tight league wide because of Cespedes, Gordon, Upton, Fowler, Desmond, and Jackson, the free agents most mentioned on this board, at this point, 3 of the 30 teams ponied up the cash to sign them. Are the White Sox the only other team that could use their services? but are the other teams really on the verge to compete or think that are ready to compete, or maybe, the other teams already have caliber ready players in position to help the team, to take them to that elusive area of making the playoff. it is all about each team philosophy and talent of the teams.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 23, 2016 -> 07:28 PM) lol. Using the Yankees payroll as a justification to what the White Sox should be spending? The Yankees also had 2.5 times the revenue the White Sox did. again you really do not read, i was responding to DA who, if you read his post, mention the Yanks, so in your ernest, for whatever reason, you mention my post, point your arrow somewhere else.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 23, 2016 -> 06:13 PM) Because different players make different impacts on teams and the box office. It's a big deal if the Sox sign Cespedes, not so much if they sign Fowler. Take Desmond. I'm sure the Sox wouldn't mind having Ian Desmond on their roster, but apparently not at the cost of a draft pick and the money difference for Jimmy Rollins. I am sure they wouldn't mind having Fowler on their team either, but apparently not at the price he is asking even though they could pay it without the checks bouncing. I think one thing you are missing is there are a lot of teams that could use these guys. But Gordon and Cespedes liked where they were. Upton went to a team that doesn't care how much it costs. No one has signed Fowler. No one has signed Desmond. No one has signed Jackson. How are the White Sox cheap but not the rest of the league? Who have the Yankees signed this offseason? first, no one knows if the reason the sox walked away, if they were in on the desmond, was b/c of the draft pick. no know that. second, you and others are keying on 2 or the 3 players, and saying phrases of, they will not have sign anywhere else. but it does come back to the money, b/c no one knows if the sox even made an offer. there were no chatter of that. third, again if the funds were so tight, then sell the team lastly using other teams esp the yanks as an example is a little weak, the yanks, thru there press has mention that they want to reduce there team salary. per sportac their team salary going into 2016 is at $220 million. seeing you and other poster trying to justify the reluctance of the sox spending, this remind me of the phrase of Tilting at windmills'

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 23, 2016 -> 06:09 PM) First off, the fanbase would probably be more pissed the Sox didn't make an attempt at these guys than being an also ran. And letting teams "use" you does have it's advantages. It can drive prices up, and therefore reduce available funds for your competitors in regards to players you do go after. That said, I don't think it was BS the Sox were in on Gordon and Cespedes. I just think money available for them was not made available for lesser players. They have price for Fowler and Desmond. Rollins apparently was the alternative to Desmond, and they probably have an alternative to Fowler. first, it is deceit of the owners if they were really not going to make an effort to get anyone, the next question should be, why did they, the sox FO do this??? soxfest comes to mind and trying to pacify the fans, getting the fans in the band wagon to purchase tickets. second, if they did make funds available, then that in itself says that the money is there, why hold back???

QUOTE (blackmooncreeping @ Feb 23, 2016 -> 05:50 PM) I think they would've paid for a top tier/elite OF, but in terms defined by the Sox. The contracts ultimately signed by those elite level players exceeded the Sox internally defined parameters. and you make an excellent point. but the main point is, no one and i do mean no one knows what the sox resource is when it come to profit and lost. a lot of speculation and this include me as well. according to known numbers and that may be a little out of the truth, the sox does have that money to use, if not, then the sox should really sell the team and cash in on the built in profit, before they have to go and get food stamps.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Feb 23, 2016 -> 04:12 PM) I've outlined the revenues from TV dollars alone in the past, the money is there, if the right player is there. Now where will the revenues go when they ultimately renegotiate, who knows, but I've long said the butts in the seats are the least significant part of the finances of the game of baseball today. TV TV TV. good post, the fans are a wait and see type of group. if they, the org invest, and i have always saying invest, b/c it is an investment from the owners to do this. if they invest and improve, get the excitement back, the fans will show up. the owners has to show the good faith.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Feb 23, 2016 -> 04:22 PM) They have money...we need to stop looking at this in such a simplified manner...they have the ability to move money in budgets from one year to the next, etc., if they feel as though making the expenditure is worth it. It makes absolutely no sense that they would have even been involved in talks with three different OFs (and making offers, per some sources), if they did not "have" the money. and poster who keeps repeating the company line of the org does not have money. as you said, and i will add as making a token offer to some.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 23, 2016 -> 01:47 PM) I disagree. I think they were willing to stretch it for certain guys. I am over the disappointment of them not getting Gordon or Cespedes or Upton. But upgrades remain. I do think sometimes they have to bite the bullet and take a chance, and I don't think signing Fowler to a 2 year contract around $25 million is a huge risk these days. I still think they will add an OF. If not, it will be a downer. Especially if Avi performs like the sabermatricians think he will, not how the Sox hope he will. i really like this post, a well thought out post. it appears as you are resign, as i am, as i am saying, it is what it is. i am ready for the start of st games and no major additions are forth coming. i am trying to resolve myself with the idea of the FO was really not deceiving the fans..... that is for another debate.

QUOTE (fathom @ Feb 23, 2016 -> 05:24 AM) Just basing it on the end result. Not one confirmed contract to any outfielder. You have the best source on Sox baseball saying they can't spend. In the end, their lack of finances have really hurt their roster construction it would seem. lack of finances then they should go in the red area.... i am talking about the profits the owners will take home.

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Feb 23, 2016 -> 04:52 AM) Rick had what I thought were some interesting comments today in Glendale. Among the sampling: 'The Sox drew 1.755 million fans last year, ranking 26th among the 30 teams. It was a slight increase from 1.6 million in 2014 but not enough to make a real difference. "You know what's probably a bigger differentiation between clubs right now than local attendance is the local TV contract," Hahn said. "You've heard it for years on the other side of town, and they're right. That's probably the biggest disparity in club revenues, as opposed to what attendance used to represent." "For us, the more people who show up, great. It creates a better environment, it potentially allows us more resources, but we also are fully aware of the fact we haven't put a product out there that people have wanted to come and invest their time and money in. We're hoping this year to be a little bit different. We're going to wind up in the same (payroll) area, so it hasn't had a negative impact from that standpoint." Rick is showing some tact with the attendance comments and he's right in my opinion. Sox fans won't pay to see bad baseball, period. Also the talk about TV deals is also correct in my opinion. If the Sox want to get anything close to a good new TV deal in 2019, they better start winning or they'll be blown away by what the Cubs are going to get when they start their own network. Mark to me, there was really no intention of signing any big FA or OF'er this yr, he says it right there, in the bold. they are done.

QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Feb 23, 2016 -> 04:03 AM) How do you know more needed to be done? I mean every person on this forum wishes one of AG, JU or YC chose the Sox. Nobody is disagreeing. But I can still easily see this team winning the division. Give Avi a half season, and then fire some farm bullets for a premium OF. I don't think some people realize just how loaded our farm is about to look so you will gamble on Avi in the OF instead of a elite OF'er???? winning AL Central is going to be a tough race. it would have been better to use what is great at this time as resources..... $$$ as in signing a FA. not waiting for a 1/2 season and then using precious prospect to address a problem that should have been fixed in the off season. btw those names you mention didn't chose the sox, was mainly b/c of the sox not offering the money that was needed to sign them.

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Feb 23, 2016 -> 03:34 AM) When assessing this particular offseason for the White Sox, you have to consider where they started from. Last year's team was a disaster: dead last in offense and near last on defense. And so to be "all in" or wanting to seriously compete for this season, "many" upgrades needed to be made. Yes, of course, the Todd Frazier addition was an outstanding one. High applause to the FO on that deal! Acquiring Brett Lawrie wasn't quite on the same level but it appears to have been a deal worth making, and does represent a net upgrade at second base. The catching situation, well, it's no longer Tyler Flowers. Enough said on that! The problem is our team was so bad last year that to become competitive this year, which management claims was its goal, still more needed to be done, particularly in the outfield and at DH. That's why I am 100% with the always-terrific poster Eminor when he laments the team's inability to convert on one of the premier outfielder free agents this offseason. If this team under this current owner and management team couldn't obtain a premium free agent talent under the conditions which were present this winter, when will it ever? So very disappointing. Because this was the golden opportunity to put the finishing touches on an offseason to take the team where it started from at the end of last season to a level as legitimate contender for this season. That has not happened. Instead, the conversation has been redirected to talking about the merits of the dumpster diving efforts to acquire Latos and Rollins. As many others have mentioned, the plan and execution this offseason appears to have been half-arsed, at least to this point. This point, I remind you, is at the beginning of Spring Training. However, I will hitch my wagon onto the optimism of some of the other rosier posters and hope Mr. Hahn is able to pull off a deal (or two) this spring to elevate the team up the notch or two it needs to compete for a chance for postseason play this season. But as of now, as we enter "Year 2" of the "3 Year Plan", it's looking a little iffy. nice post, nah a great post. for me, and i will continue with my same old tired song, it is the money. they, the sox have 15 mil invested in Danks and 13 mil invested in LaRoche. the owners will not go over a certain amount, no matter what the needs of the team are. all this fluff last yr of the owners want another championship. maybe in a garage sale kind of players, how much better will the sox have been with a elite OF'er or even a 2nd or 3rd tier OF'er.... i will still have faith on Latos signing.... i wanted latos from when the season ended. i will not jump ship ....

QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Feb 23, 2016 -> 01:52 AM) I'm completely fine with this. Low risk and good veteran leadership and competition for Saladino. i am completely lost, i missed this entire day of great discussion. but i will say, without reading most of these post and after thinking, i am wondering if this was a st invite and / or if he couldn't make the team in the majors, will he accept a minor league contract??? second, a nice divergence of thinking of what is really needed, an OF'er. but it is what it is.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Feb 22, 2016 -> 11:53 PM) Of course you can jump in - it's a message board. The thing about a trade is that you can't trade until you're sure you have the replacement "fixed". And even then, you won't know they are fixed for sure until they see, say a month of pitching in the regular season. And the Sox have no one in the pen particularly valuable who is tradeable. What would, say, Jennings bring if we had a replacement for him? I don't buy the trade thing...Sox just don't think that far ahead and rarely have the guts to pull the trigger on dumping a starter on the major league roster. thanks but the last part is also telling from my side, it is also insurance for the sox pitchers. i like that life preserver of having extra pitchers.

QUOTE (Jose Paniagua @ Feb 22, 2016 -> 05:03 PM) https://twitter.com/CSNHayes/status/701814141137190912 i just saw this and this threw me for a loop, i would never have thought that the sox would sign for any infield help. dang, i was content with saladino as the everyday SS. way to go for the unexpected move. i don't know if i like it, but still way to go to keep addressing the missing pieces.

QUOTE (southside hitman @ Feb 22, 2016 -> 02:58 PM) Either via trade or just depth for inevitable injuries/under performance, it is always a smart idea to have as many live arms you can. If you look at our options if something happens to our incumbent LOOGY's Jenning/Duke, the Lamb trade makes a lot of sense. As for Kahnle, there just isn't that many humans who can hit the upper 90's consistently. Coop will fix em' that is kinda of want i wanted to imply, but i was taking the vague answer approach. this is security for those intangibles that can not be predicted nor anticipated. esp if this team will be in a close race for a playoff berth or not. great post.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Feb 21, 2016 -> 03:57 PM) I understand that. There is just no room in the pen for them right now. So they are likely depth, which is helpful. After they made the moves they still signed Albers. I supposed one of the incumbents could be traded, but none are the lock-down type who is likely to net much (outside of Robertson who won't be traded). i don't mean to jump in here, but for me, the signing is to reinforce the idea of making a trade in the future with a pen pitchers being included in a pkg or maybe insurance for the pen.