NUKE_CLEVELAND

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,159943,00.html Financial institutions really need to get their act together before people start getting hurt. Hearing about a new case of information theft every week is really un-nerving to me.

Take your perp walk jackass. There is justice in corporate America.

Thats twice now that the Twinks have gotten slapped around by Frisco. I'm loving it!!!

QUOTE(LowerCaseRepublican @ Jun 16, 2005 -> 08:17 PM) http://movies.crooksandliars.com/foxnewssu...e_050612-01.wmv How is that discussion relevant in any way at all to legal precedents which dictate what should be done with these people? They're arguing about venue and notice how nobody asserted that these people actually have constitutional rights.

QUOTE(LowerCaseRepublican @ Jun 16, 2005 -> 07:59 PM) Nuke, the DoJ has never brought charges at all against most of these detainees at all so it is difficult to try them without bringing charges. Not to mention this little gem from Quirin: The Supreme Court said, in cases challenging trial by military tribunals convened by President Roosevelt during and after W.W. II that "neither {the President's] Proclamation nor the fact that they are enemy aliens forecloses consideration by the courts of petitioners' contentions that the Constitution and laws of the United States constitutionally enacted forbid their trial by military commission." Gitmo is US jurisdiction so the applications of Odah vs US apply and a writ of habeas corpus can be given to every inhabitant of Gitmo then. Nice try APU. Their Habaes Corpus claims were DENIED by the Supreme Court. The Court holds: But dont take my word for it. Its right at the top of the freekin document. http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/f...law/quirin.html

QUOTE(LowerCaseRepublican @ Jun 16, 2005 -> 08:09 PM) Porter Goss, the new head of the CIA had a "shakeup" which essentially was a purge from the CIA of all agents that disagreed with the current war on terror policy. A lot of agents "resigned" as a result. And Gitmo isn't a left right issue. There are a lot of conservatives talking about the need to close down Gitmo and that these trials can be done here in the United States. Bill Kristol, for instance, makes a compelling case for it as well. It's a shame that the hardcore Bush supporters can't see where he is overstepping his bounds in numerous sectors in regards to the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. f***, even Bob Barr sees it. /proudly.voted.libertarian.in.04 I dont care where they do the trials as long as they follow the precedents set forth by the Supreme Court and try them under military commissions.

QUOTE(FlaSoxxJim @ Jun 16, 2005 -> 07:52 PM) Sec159, if you don't mind, please clarify point 2: is it just radical Islamic fundamentalism you refuse to elevate to the status of a religion or all of Islam? As for defending Durbin the person, I for one am doing no such thing. I'm defending the statements made by an elected official that have been twisted to make it sound like he said something he did not. It could have been Durbin, Daffy Duck, or anyone else, and I don't care if he's from Illinois or Idaho or whether he is red, blue, or whatever. Islamic fundies who preach "death to America" and the like pervert what is really a peace loving religion. Those who pervert a religon as they do certainly qualify as a cult.

QUOTE(FlaSoxxJim @ Jun 16, 2005 -> 07:31 PM) The story corroborates others suggesting that we were more interested in looking successful than actually being successful those first days rounding up people in Afghanistan. We bought a lot of Joe Shmoe ham-and-eggers from folks looking to make a quick buck, and that's who we're holding now. You can't say that for certain until these people get a hearing. When the left stops challenging the military tribnals process maybe some of those people can go home.

QUOTE(KipWellsFan @ Jun 16, 2005 -> 07:32 PM) And it's all Clinton's fault for letting 9/11 happen I hope by 'your side of things' you only mean people against Guantanamo not liberal, because this has become a much more complex issue than that. And please explain how people against how Gitmo is run are delaying court procedures, I'm not following. I've already explained it in this thread and others and this is the last time I plan on doing it. The proper way to deal with enemy combatants is to try them before military commissions. This has been validated by the Supreme Court back in 1942 and has not been overturned or reversed since then. The ACLU and Amnesty and all these other whining leftist hypocrites whine and complain about people being held there without a trial yet they continue to deny them a day in court by throwing up legal challenges to the military commission process effectively halting it in its tracks.

QUOTE(LowerCaseRepublican @ Jun 16, 2005 -> 06:42 PM) Nuke, the thing is that the DoJ is not saying where these people are coming from at all. The government will not say where the detainees at Gitmo are coming from saying "Well, just trust us." And as a person who proclaims to be a small government conservative, I would peg you as one of the people who would be at the very least apprehensive about the policies of government to secretly arrest and detain a person with no end in sight with no timetable for bringing charges or giving them access to counsel or family. Given the track record of government in general for decades (Palmer Raids, COINTELPROs, etc.), it isn't too far to suggest that perhaps the government's activities are less than noble. To say there are more American citizens at Gitmo ( if I'm reading your statement right ) and the government is hiding their nationality from us is purely speculation on your part. Once again. These people at Gitmo are those who were captured on the battlefields of Iraq and Afghanistan and they are set to be tried by military commissions, as the Supreme Court ruling of 1942 specifies they should be, and your side of things is stopping that from happening. It is YOU who deny these people a day in court not us.

QUOTE(LowerCaseRepublican @ Jun 16, 2005 -> 05:57 PM) Secret closed door tribunals (completely flying in the face of Milligan) where defendants have no access to counsel or due process rights. That sounds so Constitutional to me Nuke, you can't break this on a left/right continuum. Mel Martinez, Bob Barr, Ron Paul, Bill Kristol, etc. have joined the ranks of supporting the Constitution over mere party loyalty. These secret military tribunals are anti-thetical to the Constitution as is the holding of suspects in Gitmo (a.k.a US jurisdiction according to the SC) for years without charges, access to counsel or family. If one is in US jurisdiction, then US criminal law applies. Milligan applies to U.S. citizens, not foreginers captured in combat against our troops. Stop trying to lump in U.S. citizens with foreginers. The Supreme Court has already validated the military tribunals in the form the Bush Administration wants to use them so saying they are entitled to treatment under U.S. law is wrong. When the Supreme Court reverses itself then you have a point. Until then you are totally and completely wrong.

QUOTE(LowerCaseRepublican @ Jun 16, 2005 -> 05:50 PM) They're innocent until proven guilty. You don't just get to throw out the Constitution when we're scared of a possible threat. Jose Padilla has been in a cell for years waiting to be even charged with a crime. The Supreme Court ruled 8-1 that he must be charged and tried. The DoJ is still fighting that on appeal and he is still in a prison. How is waiting years upon years for a f***ing trial the least bit Constitutional? Gitmo is under US jurisdiction and as the Milligan case clearly shows, you can't have military tribunals for people arrested under criminal law when civilian courts are functioning. Padilla is the exception not the rule. As far as I know Padilla, Hamdi and that other jackass who got sent up for 20 years whose name escapes me at the moment are the only American citizens that are in that position. Yes, they should get due process under the constitution because they are American citizens. The Supreme Court ruled in 1942 that illegal enemy combatants WHO ARE NOT AMERICAN CITIZENS such as Nazi sabetours or Islamic extremists, have NO rights under the constitution and are not entitled to trial in the civillian court system. Whether or not someone is an American citizen is the key discriminator here and if it's ok for you and your cohorts on the left to deny a hearing to foregin combatants in Guantanamo with your silly legal challenges then I say its ok for the Government to proceed with appeals designed to get the courts to see things their way regarding people like Padilla and Hamdi and the like.

QUOTE(Texsox @ Jun 16, 2005 -> 05:27 PM) Are the conservatives who are requesting quicker trials also being hypocrites? If we truely want to spread democracy around the world, then we need to allow our system to pass or fail, just like at home. No. How is demanding swift justice being hypocritical? You are the ones complaining about these people being there so long without trial yet you delay the process again and again. The proper way to deal with terrorists and suspected terrorists who are not American citizens was set forth by the Supreme Court in the 1940's as I clearly outlined in the Gitmo thread from the other night. What is the problem with going with a clearly defined precedence? Why is it so important to afford people who are trying to destroy our country and kill our citizens rights they are not entitled to?

QUOTE(Texsox @ Jun 16, 2005 -> 03:35 PM) Without trials of any kind, how are you so quick to label them terrorists? We thought OJ was a murderer, that Robert Blake hired a hit man, and Micheal Jackson was a child molester before trials. OK maybe those were poor examples. YAS, if a chained you in a fetal position for 36 hours, in those conditions, think you would admit to being a terrorist as some point? If we are going to export American Democracy around the world, shouldn't we actually use it? If our system is so great, why are we not putting these people on trial with a jury of their peers? Horrible examples with OJ and MJ. As I'm so fond of saying, if you have big money in Cali you can buy your own justice. For the last time. WE ARE TRYING TO TRY THESE PEOPLE!!!! We have military commissions set up to deal with these people and it is YOUR SIDE which is stopping that process from going forward with your legal challenges. It's extremely hypocritical of the left to whine about these people being there without trial when they themeslves are holding up the process. :rolly

15-5 trouncing at the hands of the Marlins this afternoon at the urinal. Sorry if this was posted elsewhere but I felt this needed a thread of its own. LOL!!!!!

After they throw up a 10 spot to save Garlands ass tonight they better get some runs for MB on Friday. They screw him out of another win and I'm gonna start throwing s***.

Rowand44. That took some serious balls predicting a White Sox winner right when we were down 6-1.

Anyone else hear the fan jeering Roycie as he walked back to the dugout after King in the 9th? "THAT LOOKS FAMILIAR!!" LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I didn't think I had a chance in hell of getting to write one of these threads tonight but thanks to Gene and his thread it all worked out.

EAT s***!!!!!!!!!!!!! YOU THOUGHT YOU COULD COME IN HERE AND SWEEP US IN OUR HOUSE?!?!?! IN OUR HOUSE?!!?!? GET THE f*** OUT OF HERE SCRUBS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GIMMIE A HELL YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

QUOTE(JimH @ Jun 15, 2005 -> 08:16 PM) Let's get 6 more outs on these guys and take a day off. Can you imagine the MO we can get out of a win like this?

WAY TO SHUT EM DOWN COTTS!!!! Lets run up the score on these whores now!!!!

When was the last time we've sen a Sox game this f***ing great? Just when you think this team is set up for a big fall they pull something out of their ass and all of a sudden everything is allright again. GOD I LOVE THIS TEAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Gene. You need to do this every single time we have a bad game from this point forward. It actually worked. LOL!!!!!

QUOTE(Jabroni @ Jun 15, 2005 -> 07:22 PM) CORPSEBALL IS IN EFFECT. Oh, and Garland is back to being Judy. Yup and she bent over real good for the D-Backs tonight.