Rex Hudler

So for those of us too lazy to look it up, what is the scheduled rotation for both teams in the series?

So noted. We'll agree to disagree then.

I agree with you completely. Although I am not sure he is a true CF, but that is an argument for another time. From what I saw of Joe, he was great. I heard nothing but good things about him. Unfortunately, he has the albatross of a $5.3 million contract hanging over his head. Pay a guy that kind of money and people expect results. I am of the belief that Joe is not ready for the big leagues at this point. I have wondered aloud why he seems to have regressed since going to Charlotte. Perhaps it is a matter of taking a step or two back to be able to make a leap forward? It just concerns me that improvement is not evident, at least in his numbers. I also wonder why he did well under Gregg Ritchie, and not under Greg Walker. I may be reading into nothing, but it runs through my mind. I do hope Joe makes it and makes it big time and have not given up on him, but it is natural I think to wonder "what if?".

Thanks for the compliment, SI. I am glad you stick around here and if I have anything to do with it, that is very humbling. I am not a life-long Sox fan, nor do I know everything about the Sox. I do not profess to know what it is like to grow up in Chicago and be a Sox fan and have to hate the Cubs. But I do know baseball and consider myself very objective when it comes to the game. I have been fortunate to meet, know and be around a lot of people who know the game and have had many discussions that have blown me away in terms of how much there still is to learn. I have followed the Sox for almost 10 years now and feel I have a decent understanding of the organization. So, I state my opinions, which aren't always popular. But then again, if everybody always agreed, how boring would these boards be?

Oh, I read plenty. If I'm not mistaken that was when Thomas SAID they were pitching him inside and it was tough to hit, but he had to deal with it, then went on a tear. If that's 'whining' to you, fine, but it sounded like an adult that was frustrated to me, and one who was determined to beat it, and he did. Everyone I know took it as whining. And that is just one instance. Frank is a well-known whiner. Frank is no whiner, nor is he anything else the media portrays him as. Those easily led may believe the KotexBoy/Marriotti's of the world, but anyone who knows Frank Thomas, and hears for themselves what he says, knows he's never 'whined'. I guess you don't know the guy, and accept what's been written rather than what you see for yourself, if you've ever made the effort. Have I met Frank Thomas? Yep and he comes across as a very amiable person. Does Frank sign autographs and do right by his fans? From what I have seen and every indication I have ever been given, he goes above and beyond. My criticism of Frank is not about that. Have I ever really listened to what he said? Yep and without silver and black colored glasses on too. Step out of your silver and black PJ's and listen objectively. The ONLY people who defend him are die-hard White Sox fans (nothing wrong with being die-hard, but let's not lose objectivity), not baseball people, not former teammates (yes, I know EVERY former teammate is disgruntled and has it out for Frank and the Sox), not baseball fans who do not bleed silver and black. Have I ever talked to his teammates past and present , for their real feelings? Yep, which is what I base most of my opinion on. Frank is the kind of teammate you put up with. When he is going well, he is happy. When he is not, he is miserable and it affects others. Frank is all about his numbers. (note disclaimer at the end) Frank takes some teammates out and pays for everything, in effect buying their loyalty (not saying that is his intention, but it is the result). In a team concept on the field, Frank is not considered a great "teammate". He is (or at least was) considered a great hitter. Have I ever been in the clubhouse? No, I have never been in the Sox clubhouse. But hanging out in the clubhouse as an outsider for a day wouldn't tell the story anyway. I am done with this argument. If you are blinded to what everyone else sees, then fine. That is your right. But if you actually opened your eyes and mind, you might see a whole other world. Blind love and admiration can lead to a very narrow view. Lastly, my purpose for this thread was never to bash Frank. I am not a band wagon fan, because I have said for 3 years the Sox should get rid of him and would be better off. However, I am more than willing to give a guy credit when it is due. Other than the dumbass comments he made in ST (which I believe were not meant to be whiny, just came across as such) and the comment I originally referred to in this post, Frank has seemed like a different person this year. He has seemed more team oriented and more relaxed. So either he has made adjustments or has gotten smart about what he says. Maybe it is a combination of both? Either way, I will give him credit in that department. If you want to agree to disagree fine, I can do that. If you want to call me names, go for it, I can take it. But if you want to be objecitve and discuss a topic in an objective manner, I'll be here.

Additional numbers for Cotts: 38 hits allowed in 59 2/3 innings. 85 strikeouts in 59 2/3 innings. 37 walks allowed in 59 2/3 innings. Only 2 Hr allowed .181 opponents average Only 3 of his 12 starts have lasted gone 6 innings or longer with 6 2/3 being the longest. There you have it, the good and the bad.

so... we might bring this guy up as a middle reliever....i would hate to see rick out of a job I believe Cotts future is as a starter and I will not likely be this season. Possibly not even next year. Th ough it is possible to bring him up in Buehrle-like fashion. I just don't think they will until he works on lowering his walk totals.

i dont know i would rather have burns baby back... as for oh tuna i never minded him and he did pretty well for us........liefer did good too for us when allowed to play .........as far as bart goes.. yeah we did alright with gettin him but look at what it cost us and the replacements we got taking over those roles..........id give anything to get rid of white right about now..... Gotta disagree with you somewhat here, HSC. The Colon trade was a winner from the day it was finalized because the Sox traded spare parts. Osuna was expendable because of the bullpen depth the Sox had. I am not exactly sure why Rick White was signed because I felt that the depth was there and a replacement was available in-house. Biddle was never going to get a real look with the Sox. He was good enough to hang on, but they didn't believe in him enough to give him a specified role. He would not have been closing games for the Sox and needed a change of scenery. Liefer was not going to help either. He wouldn't have played any more this year than last year, where he did not succeed (nor did he in a similar role w/ the Expos). If the Sox didn't have Lee/Konerko/Thomas/Daubach, then Liefer may have gotten a chance at a bigger role, but that never happened, nor was it going to. To "win" a trade, doesn't require the players you gave up to fail. For that matter, you don't even have to have a winner and a loser in a trade for it to be successful. Bart has more than held his own to make this trade a winner for the Sox, if designating a win is important to you.

No one is predicting anything at this point for Cotts. But a little background will allow you to make your own assertions. Cotts was a 2nd round draft pick of the A's out of Illinois State in 2001. He is 23 and in his first year of AA. Neal was traded to the Sox in the Billy Koch-Keith Foulke trade. Neal is currently 7-2 with a 2.11 ERA with the Barons. He has some crazy numbers in regards to hits/IP and K/IP, but his walk totals are way too high. He goes too deep into counts with hitters and as a result has high pitch counts which prevents him from going deep into his starts. He has very good stuff, yet is not overpowering with speed. He knows how to pitch and moves the ball in and out, up and down and keeps hitters off balance. He often freezes hitters and gets strikeouts looking just by throwing the right pitch in the right location. If he learns to become more efficient in getting hitters out, he has a chance to be a very good Major League pitcher. I have seen him in several starts and can say that it can be alternately frustrating him walk guys and then a pleaure to see how he dissects hitters. The walks will have to be reduced to continue to get hitters out at higher levels though. He is currently on the DL for shoulder stiffness and is only expected to miss 1 start, I believe. Hope that helps.

I don't have to "look" for anything from Frank. He periodically puts it right out there for all to see. Part of his problem is he doesn't understand how he is perceived and he continues to make comments to fuel it. No one need search or look for things to call Frank out on. This thread started with me complimenting him on making necessary adjustments. But I refuse to sit by and read all the people who see Fank as untouchable. He is, a whiny egomaniac and has been one for years. If you want to applaud his production, then fine, do so. But do be so blind to reality to think Frank hasn't created his own bed. In Frank's world, everything is about him first and the team second. In the papers, Frank's teammates will support him. Privately, they will back up the selfishness I am referring to.

Indy, time to wake up. Gotta start following the prospects more, my friend.

no cotts heather... so cant comment....sorry......... Cotts is on the DL.

Frank Thomas has EVERY RIGHT to not come to the bench if he in unfairly benched like he was last year That comment is as assinine as it gets. Frank has NO right to do as he pleases. He is an employee and a teammate. Again, it is all about Frank. f*** Frank and his attitude. If he couldn't hit, he wouldn't even be worth talking about, and he barely is at that.

Talking about blind to reality. Frank has been an whiner and an individual caring only about himself for years. He's a cancer in the clubhouse (although for the most part has seemed better this year) and always has been. No one will speak up about Frank because of how well he has hit, but the media did not create Frank's image. He has no one to blame for that but himself. If you can't see the ego and individualism in Frank, you are blind to anything outside of the world of silver and black.

greg i dont know.. i didnt see any of the weekend so i cant honestly comment... im not holding my breath on miracles here though... we may still suck......see how the rest of the week goes......... Like I said in an earlier post........ The plane ride home will likely cure whatever illnesses the Sox had this weekend, especially the one that caused them to score 10 runs today.

Game 2 - Both games went extra innings, must have been a long day... Julio Reyes activated from the DL, Fryson put on DL. GREENSBORO 2 AT KANNAPOLIS 3 DH GAME #2 (EXTRA INNINGS) YTD YTD GREENSBORO AB R H BI AVG KANNAPOLIS AB R H BI AVG E.Ordorica 3B 3 0 0 0 .236 A.Webster CF 3 0 0 0 .303 K.Randel 2B 3 0 0 0 .193 A.Gonzalez SS 4 1 0 0 .230 J.Hermida RF 4 0 0 0 .250 M.Christense 3B 5 1 3 2 .292 A.Rohleder CF 3 0 0 0 .261 D.Ciraco LF 4 0 0 0 .248 T.Merkle DH 3 0 0 0 .313 E.Varela 1B 2 0 0 0 .247 R.Word 1B 3 0 0 0 .180 T.Brice PH 0 0 0 0 .263 C.Resop LF 4 1 1 1 .200 T.Brice 1B 0 1 0 0 .263 A.Molina CAT 4 1 1 1 .253 J.Gillikin DH 2 0 0 0 .202 R.Andino SS 4 0 0 0 .188 J.Reyes PH 1 0 0 0 .318 A.Bostick PIT 0 0 0 0 .000 J.Reyes DH 1 0 0 0 .318 R.Wolf PIT 0 0 0 0 .000 C.Lisk CAT 4 0 0 0 .185 L.Holdzkom PIT 0 0 0 0 .000 P.Lopez 2B 4 0 2 1 .241 J.Terrell RF 3 0 2 0 .667 A.Larson PIT 0 0 0 0 .000 J.Rupe PIT 0 0 0 0 .000 A.Perez PIT 0 0 0 0 .000 TOTALS 31 2 2 2 TOTALS 33 3 7 3 GREENSBORO 0 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0- 2 2 1 KANNAPOLIS 0 0 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 1- 3 7 0 E--K.Randel. DP--GREENSBORO 0, KANNAPOLIS 0. LOB--GREENSBORO 4, KANNAPOLIS 12. HR--C.Resop (1), A.Molina (3), M.Christense (2). SB--K.Randel (10), A.Webster (17). HBP--K.Randel, T.Merkle. SH-- D.Ciraco, J.Terrell. YTD IP H R ER BB SO HR ERA GREENSBORO A.Bostick 5.0 4 2 2 4 6 1 3.77 R.Wolf 4.0 2 0 0 3 1 0 1.69 L.Holdzkom (L,1-4) 0.2 1 1 1 2 1 0 2.84 KANNAPOLIS A.Larson 4.0 2 2 2 2 2 2 3.42 J.Rupe 4.0 0 0 0 1 3 0 1.35 A.Perez (W,3-1) 2.0 0 0 0 0 4 0 2.35 HB--A.Larson, A.Perez. PB--A.Molina. SO--E.Ordorica, J.Hermida 2, T.Merkle, R.Word, C.Resop, A.Molina 2, R.Andino, A.Webster, A.Gonzalez, M.Christense, D.Ciraco 2, J.Reyes, C.Lisk 2. BB--E.Ordorica, A.Rohleder, R.Word, A.Webster 2, A.Gonzalez, E.Varela, T.Brice 2, J.Gillikin, C.Lisk, P.Lopez. T--2:38.

Kanny 1st Game - Nice outing by Reynoso GREENSBORO 2 AT KANNAPOLIS 1 DH GAME #1 (EXTRA INNINGS) YTD YTD GREENSBORO AB R H BI AVG KANNAPOLIS AB R H BI AVG E.Ordorica 3B 4 1 1 0 .240 A.Webster CF 3 1 0 0 .307 K.Randel 2B 3 1 1 0 .196 A.Gonzalez SS 3 0 1 0 .234 J.Hermida RF 3 0 1 0 .255 T.Brice RF 4 0 1 1 .263 A.Rohleder LF 3 0 2 1 .264 D.Ciraco LF 4 0 0 0 .255 T.Merkle 1B 2 0 1 0 .325 E.Varela 1B 4 0 2 0 .250 P.Arlis CAT 3 0 0 0 .223 P.Lopez PR 0 0 0 0 .235 R.Andino SS 4 0 0 0 .192 M.Christense 3B 4 0 0 0 .211 C.Grzecka DH 3 0 1 0 .302 J.Cavin DH 3 0 1 0 .228 A.Brewer CF 3 0 0 0 .247 G.Molina CAT 3 0 0 0 .211 J.Johnson PIT 0 0 0 0 .000 C.Lisk CAT 0 0 0 0 .191 C.Blalock PIT 0 0 0 0 .000 A.Salvo 2B 3 0 0 0 .178 J.Demontel PIT 0 0 0 0 .000 P.Reynoso PIT 0 0 0 0 .000 R.Hummel PIT 0 0 0 0 .000 TOTALS 28 2 7 1 TOTALS 31 1 5 1 GREENSBORO 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 1- 2 7 1 KANNAPOLIS 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0- 1 5 2 E--K.Randel, A.Gonzalez, G.Molina. DP--GREENSBORO 0, KANNAPOLIS 0. LOB--GREENSBORO 5, KANNAPOLIS 5. 2B--E.Ordorica (12), J.Hermida (8), A.Rohleder (9). SB--A.Webster (16), T.Brice (3). CS--T.Merkle. HBP--A.Rohleder. SH--J.Hermida, P.Arlis. YTD IP H R ER BB SO HR ERA GREENSBORO J.Johnson 5.2 3 1 1 2 4 0 2.95 C.Blalock (W,4-1) 2.1 1 0 0 0 1 0 2.12 J.Demontel (S,2) 1.0 1 0 0 0 0 0 7.80 KANNAPOLIS P.Reynoso 6.1 6 1 0 2 4 0 3.66 R.Hummel (L,2-2) 2.2 1 1 0 1 2 0 1.23 HB--P.Reynoso. PB--G.Molina. SO--E.Ordorica, P.Arlis, R.Andino, C.Grzecka 2, A.Brewer, M.Christense, J.Cavin 2, G.Molina, A.Salvo. BB--K.Randel, T.Merkle 2, A.Webster, A.Gonzalez. T--2:38. A--1312

W-S wins 8-2. Wing with a nice outing aside from 4 walks. Is he turning into Cotts?? The top three in the order, Yan, Spidale and Reed just suck. ;-) FREDERICK 2 AT WINSTON-SALEM 8 DH GAME #1 YTD YTD FREDERICK AB R H BI AVG WINSTON-SALEM AB R H BI AVG O.Rogers 2B 3 1 0 0 .350 R.Yan 2B 4 2 2 1 .330 P.Shier SS 2 1 0 0 .222 M.Spidale CF 3 2 3 4 .291 W.Cliffords CF 3 0 0 0 .294 J.Reed RF 3 1 1 1 .330 M.Huggins 1B 3 0 1 1 .340 B.Becker 1B 3 0 1 0 .274 T.Johnson 3B 3 0 0 0 .301 E.Storey DH 2 0 2 1 .255 O.Martinez CAT 3 0 0 0 .292 C.Rogowski PH 1 0 0 0 .257 C.Keylor RF 3 0 0 0 .271 D.Holt LF 4 0 1 0 .297 H.Quattlebau DH 2 0 1 0 .220 M.Morse SS 4 0 3 0 .270 E.Shanks LF 2 0 1 0 .242 W.Rosa CAT 4 2 2 0 .250 A.Manley LF 1 0 0 0 .171 C.Amador 3B 4 1 0 0 .000 K.Birkins PIT 0 0 0 0 .000 R.Wing PIT 0 0 0 0 .000 T.Corcoran PIT 0 0 0 0 .000 J.Fields PIT 0 0 0 0 .000 TOTALS 25 2 3 1 TOTALS 32 8 15 7 FREDERICK 2 0 0 0 0 0 0- 2 3 1 WINSTON-SALEM 2 3 0 0 3 0 X- 8 15 1 E--O.Martinez, M.Morse. DP--FREDERICK 0, WINSTON-SALEM 0. LOB-- FREDERICK 7, WINSTON-SALEM 10. 2B--H.Quattlebau (1), E.Shanks (3), R.Yan (9), M.Spidale (5). 3B--M.Spidale (4). SB--M.Spidale (11), J.Reed (26), E.Storey (5). SH--E.Storey. YTD IP H R ER BB SO HR ERA FREDERICK K.Birkins (L,3-3) 3.0 9 5 5 3 2 0 6.44 T.Corcoran 3.0 6 3 3 0 2 0 7.20 WINSTON-SALEM R.Wing (W,7-2) 5.0 2 2 0 4 2 0 1.63 J.Fields 2.0 1 0 0 1 3 0 4.68 WP--T.Corcoran. SO--T.Johnson 2, O.Martinez 2, C.Keylor, R.Yan, B.Becker, C.Amador 2. BB--O.Rogers, P.Shier 2, W.Cliffords, H.Quattlebau, M.Spidale, J.Reed, B.Becker. T--2:13. A--3242 2nd game was rained out, as previously mentioned.

Oh, I read plenty. If I'm not mistaken that was when Thomas SAID they were pitching him inside and it was tough to hit, but he had to deal with it, then went on a tear. If that's 'whining' to you, fine, but it sounded like an adult that was frustrated to me, and one who was determined to beat it, and he did. Everyone I know took it as whining. And that is just one instance. Frank is a well-known whiner.

Hell it has been rainy as hell in Birmingham too. May was the 3rd wettest month EVER in Birmingham. Almost 20 inches of rain in the first 23 days of the month. Then it went dry, only to come back at the beginning of June.

You must not read a lot, huh? The specific "whining" I was referring to, was when Manuel commented in general that maybe some of the hitters needed to make some adjustments. Frank responded the next day about getting pitches too tough to hit and not getting many pitches to hit. He said all pitchers did was throw him inside all the time. He seemed to say that the pitchers needed to adjust, not him.

FWIW, one of the Willie Mays bobbleheads from last year is on Ebay right now. Has 15 hours to go, and is at $51 right now.

old style and dogs... hmm, i can do that ... no problem.......of course then i have to drive into the city again and go by that horrible ball park .... ill have to do it when they are out of town so i dont have to deal with the dumbass fans... .lol.......and if these cans have that damn wrigley stuff on them its gonna cost ya extra lol. ..ya know i had to hose down the trunk when i got home to get the germs out of my car..... ..lol..........oh the sacrifices i make for you....... ..lol.......ya know your gonna ruin my reputation here..........lol.... .. and no i didnt notice the ebay thing i try to stay away from there... my credit card can only handle so much .......lol.....thats cool though 51 bucks....well mine wont be on there......it has a special place on my sports shelf....... I didn't request the Wrigley Old Stlye! Just the beer itself..... after its gone, who the hell cares what is on the can. LOL

Anyone who saw the games this weekend should have noticed that Frank was killing inside fastballs. Obviously he has decided to adjust rather than whine more. Good choice Frank! Watching Frank mashing is much more fun than reading his whining comments.

Might cost you some more Old Style and dogs. LOL And yes, I still have the ring also. Did you notice that one of the rings sold on Ebay last week for $51?? Can you imagine that?